"Reach"

Games Other Halo
1

The halo I grew up with has changed. There have always been innovations in halo, that much is to be expected I think, moving forward. When a new game is released expectations are high, and if it’s the same game just remade people will lose interest right? Change CAN be good. Unfortunately for us, the core game mechanics have changed for the worse. As a result of these poor core game mechanics, many players have deemed reach ‘Reach’. Heres why:

Lets start with melees. The new ‘no bleed’ melee system is flat out, straight up, the most unintuitive and illogical melee system in a halo game, to date. With the inclusion of sprint and no bleed melees, the sprint + ‘double derp’ tactic is actually viable. To better explain my ‘accusations’ of the no bleed melee system basically being trashy, heres some charts and graphs!

effectiveness of the durdle charge
pre-melee shooting viability
random arbitrary line of ‘is shooting viable here’?
perform better pre-melee clash = win at first melee clash

Hopefully this clears things up for anyone under the impression that the reach ‘no bleed’ melee system is at all optimal. This is why the ‘bleedthru’ title update setting is better. Its still rough around the edges, not working even close to how seamless it worked in halo 3 post-patch, but its still an improvement across the board. Charging like a durdle no longer works, and that’s enough of a reason for bleedthru to stay.

Moving on, lets talk about grenades. In reach, we really don’t have grenades. Chuck a mini nuke! Grenades in reach explode wicked fast and do a TON of damage. They also have the amazing ability to stick into random floor surfaces instead of bouncing. All of this, combined with the sluggish movement and jump settings in reach make grenades seem pretty absurd right now.

And what’s a FPS game without a trusty firearm? Unfortunately, what we have in reach is anything BUT ‘trusty’. Bungie implemented ‘bloom’. The following things have been said regarding bloom, by Shishka:
1.) the goal of bloom was to enforce a cadence
2.) shooting to cadence is really only a valid tactic at range (fail, see #1)
3.) the closer you get to your opponent, the less cadence applies (more fail the closer 2 people are together)
4.) players both casual and competitive can attest to how spamming the trigger actually becomes the more reliable option here.
5.) So, ultimately while the goal was to make the weapons feel more sophisticated and add a layer of skill required to use them, the net result has been that medium range weapons such as the DMR feel unreliable at their intended range.
6.) and trigger spam has not been discouraged. (but, as implied, it was meant to be)

continued…

2

Lucky for us, 343 heard our pleas for help, and title updated the game to allow bloom to be tweaked. Unfortunately, its as if 343 didn’t get the message on several of the things bloom was supposed to accomplish. In 85% bloom, spamming isn’t more punished when compared to 100% bloom, its actually IMPROVED in its consistency. This is because the ‘max bloom’ circle is 15% smaller. So spam away! Its probably optimal at the range you are engaging your enemy. Whats so bad about this, though? If we all shoot the same way (spamming), then whats the problem? The problem is, the victor of these spam battles is completely random. Its not ‘shoot better = win’ its ‘shoot better = maybe win, maybe lose, depending on how lucky we both get with our spammed shots’. Aiming skill now means very little, so long as you can keep that watermelon sized reticule partially on target for most of your shots (RUL HARD LOL).

People seem to also be under the impression that bloom is ‘ok since you can get around the inherent random factor’. This argument is just silly. Its like acknowledging that there is a problem, but instead of fixing it you allow the problem to smear ‘terrible’ into other parts of the game. A good example of this is how you cant actually 1v1 people in halo reach, DMR VS DMR, and expect to be able to shoot better and win because of it. Because of this, good players are forced to AVOID 1v1 battles with their primary weapon spawn (in a FPS game this is pretty laughable). But hey! 1v1 DMR battles NEVAR happen when everyone spawns with a DMR right? LOL.

If bloom wasn’t bad enough, there are still people who defend its abysmal implementation. What they fail to realize is that its not debatable. This is because not one single person in the entire world actually BENEFITS when spamming beats pacing when pacing is optimal. The game lets both players down when this happens. The spammer thinks ‘I killed him! I did good!’ when really, hes playing terribly and being positively reinforced for it, effectively continuing a cycle of ignorance and poor play. The pacing player, on the other hand, is thinking ‘wait… let me get this straight. I pace my shots as intended. I land all of my shots, and I lose to someone mashing his R trigger? THIS GAME IS PATHETIC’.

Moving on we have AA’s. AA’s are a touchy subject nowadays. Some people love them to death, whilst others think they are the bane of halos existence. I fall somewhat in between, thinking the idea is good, in theory, but to actually implement them to be properly balanced against the other ones would be near impossible (its infinitely safer to just use a fixed version of sprint, or not use any at all). The problem we run into with the AA’s in reach is they are all one or more of the following:
1.) Rage inducing. This seems relevant right? Did you know most people feel negatively towards armor lock? lots of people also dislike sprint letting people who get outplayed simply run away (because being good means knowing not to chase in halo). Jet pack is also the source of a lot of disdain in the community because of its applications to get into exploit spots, break the concept of map control, and grant teams their enemies intended power weapons.
2.) Exploitable. Jet pack is the prime example here, although sprint or evade + sword seems like exploiting too.
3.) Used to protect people from playing poorly. Sprint, armor lock, bubble shield, evade, AND jet pack can all fall into this category, all at the press of only one single button and maybe a directional stick press!
4.) Flat out shouldn’t be in even mildly competitive playlists at all, ever. Jet pack, once again, falls under this category. People shouldn’t be able to stand on top of maps in exploit spots. Bungie labeled spots as ‘don’t stand here’ by placing a ‘soft kill barrier’ in them. The problem with this is, its only a slap on the wrist for people breaking the maps. TEN FULL SECONDS to stand in the most god-tier spots in the map seems PRETTY GOOD. Then you have places that bungie didn’t think to place kill barriers in (stand in god-tier spots indefinitely seems even better). If that wasn’t bad enough, you also have situations like red team getting blue teams sniper rifle on reflection, giving them an enormous advantage in the process. And if that wasn’t enough, jet pack blows chunks in the core concept of ‘map control’, which ALONE is reason enough to expunge it from the quote ‘SERIOUS + COMPETITIVE’ playlists.

In conclusion, halo reach has changed halo for the worse. Its something many players have to ‘settle’ with because even though this halo game is pretty terrible in their eyes, its still the best game on xbox live (mostly because of its netcode for me). We all patiently wait for the new halo game, many of us wanting to forget the Reach plague never happened. Lets hope 343 remembers reach as an abomination, and learns from the (many) mistakes of Reach.

3

Could you perhaps do me a favour? When you are playing the game again, I want you to turn off all the surrounding sounds and block out any distractions including your dog named Toby. Now play on a Forge World Canvas and start off at the beach in the Canyon. I want you to then walk slowly from there to the end of Island. Embrace the silence and serenity that the map will bring. Hear the wind blowing against your war-torn armour, gaze at the sapphire-blue oceans that Halo is known for and embrace the ring and wonders that the map brings.

After you have done that, enter a Matchmaking Game on Rumble Pit. Find a map such as Powerhouse or Reflection and run to an untouched area of the map. Gaze upon what your opponents do and the chaos that they cause while you sit there and watch it all. You will find that the game will continue on without you. You transition from Player to Ghost. You will be non-existant.

Lay down your arms and open your eyes to which many players fail to see.

That is the one true beauties of Halo: Reach. The Sandbox, The Levels, The Possibilities… They are all so limitless in this game.

When it comes to Halo: Reach, the Competitive Community only views the entire package as one error. They only set their sights on the small changes of the gameplay mechanics and they ignore the other 99% of the game. The worlds which Bungie and Certain Affinity had crafted. Most of you probably don’t know that there is a fish symbol on Powerhouse.

If the current way of playing the game is frustrating you then find a different alternative. Don’t risk destroying this vivid and fascinating worlds simply because they don’t feel right in terms of one method of playing the game. It won’t work and all it will do is annoy you even more.

4

> Could you perhaps do me a favour? When you are playing the game again, I want you to turn off all the surrounding sounds and block out any distractions including your dog named Toby. Now play on a Forge World Canvas and start off at the beach in the Canyon. I want you to then walk slowly from there to the end of Island. Embrace the silence and serenity that the map will bring. Hear the wind blowing against your war-torn armour, gaze at the sapphire-blue oceans that Halo is known for and embrace the ring and wonders that the map brings.
>
> After you have done that, enter a Matchmaking Game on Rumble Pit. Find a map such as Powerhouse or Reflection and run to an untouched area of the map. Gaze upon what your opponents do and the chaos that they cause while you sit there and watch it all. You will find that the game will continue on without you. You transition from Player to Ghost. You will be non-existant.
>
> Lay down your arms and open your eyes to which many players fail to see.
>
> That is the one true beauties of Halo: Reach. The Sandbox, The Levels, The Possibilities… They are all so limitless in this game.
>
> When it comes to Halo: Reach, the Competitive Community only views the entire package as one error. They only set their sights on the small changes of the gameplay mechanics and they ignore the other 99% of the game. The worlds which Bungie and Certain Affinity had crafted. Most of you probably don’t know that there is a fish symbol on Powerhouse.
>
> If the current way of playing the game is frustrating you then find a different alternative. Don’t risk destroying this vivid and fascinating worlds simply because they don’t feel right in terms of one method of playing the game. It won’t work and all it will do is annoy you even more.

naw you are right.

core game mechanics are overrated.

and hey! theres a fish symbol on powerhouse. the more you know.

5

There’s also seagulls on Tempest and there are all Koi fish swimming in the pond lakes of Reflection.

I really like it when there is nothing to lose in Halo: Reach’s Matchmaking. It allows me to play it in anyway that I wsih so.

6

Can’t take anyone seriously who continuously refers to the game as “Reach” … Especially when it’s in all-caps in the title.

7

> There’s also seagulls on Tempest and there are all Koi fish swimming in the pond lakes of Reflection.
>
> I really like it when there is nothing to lose in Halo: Reach’s Matchmaking. It allows me to play it in anyway that I wsih so.

yea. i much prefer illogical, contradictory, and random in my games. ‘in my opinion’ thats better, and its my preference. i’d much rather 343 listened to me, who finds illogical, contradictory, and random mechanics more fun than the vast majority of the halo community that would rather have the game stay logical, intuitive, and non-contradictory.

> random bump

thanks for the rando bump. if you’d actually like to discuss points i’d be much obliged. or are you just here to waste peoples time whilst bumping threads you dont even approve of?

8

> > There’s also seagulls on Tempest and there are all Koi fish swimming in the pond lakes of Reflection.
> >
> > I really like it when there is nothing to lose in Halo: Reach’s Matchmaking. It allows me to play it in anyway that I wsih so.
>
> yea. i much prefer illogical, contradictory, and random in my games. ‘in my opinion’ thats better, and its my preference. i’d much rather 343 listened to me, who finds illogical, contradictory, and random mechanics more fun than the vast majority of the halo community that would rather have the game stay logical, intuitive, and non-contradictory.
>
>
> > random bump
>
> thanks for the rando bump. if you’d actually like to discuss points i’d be much obliged. or are you just here to waste peoples time whilst bumping threads you dont even approve of?

Vast Majority?

9

Agreed. Well with the first paragraph. The rest was TL;DR

10

> > > There’s also seagulls on Tempest and there are all Koi fish swimming in the pond lakes of Reflection.
> > >
> > > I really like it when there is nothing to lose in Halo: Reach’s Matchmaking. It allows me to play it in anyway that I wsih so.
> >
> > yea. i much prefer illogical, contradictory, and random in my games. ‘in my opinion’ thats better, and its my preference. i’d much rather 343 listened to me, who finds illogical, contradictory, and random mechanics more fun than the vast majority of the halo community that would rather have the game stay logical, intuitive, and non-contradictory.
> >
> >
> > > random bump
> >
> > thanks for the rando bump. if you’d actually like to discuss points i’d be much obliged. or are you just here to waste peoples time whilst bumping threads you dont even approve of?
>
> Vast Majority?

do you honestly think that more people actually ENJOY illogical, contradictory, random (and also skill-less) mechanics?

what mechanic in question do you think is actually better in halo reach than its equal in ANY halo game?

11

> Can’t take anyone seriously who continuously refers to the game as “Reach” … Especially when it’s in all-caps in the title.

I cannot take you seriously, because of the subject matter of your posts and your opinions.

Also, ‘Reach’ is used everywhere on the internet, especially youtube. It’s because the game is not considered a Halo by many.

12

dude, trying to take some who is calling “Halo:Reach” “Reach” is like trying to take someone on helium seriously. Nigh-impossible. Try saying something like “Halo reach has a few core game play flaws” or something. Try not to be like those fan boys who go around waging war on YouTube. It is annoying.

13

> dude, trying to take some who is calling “Halo:Reach” “Reach” is like trying to take someone on helium seriously. Nigh-impossible. Try saying something like “Halo reach has a few core game play flaws” or something. Try not to be like those fan boys who go around waging war on YouTube. It is annoying.

Urza is a knowledgeable veteran poster and has been around since the Beta days of 343i, he knows what he is talking about, young man.

14

> dude, trying to take some who is calling “Halo:Reach” “Reach” is like trying to take someone on helium seriously. Nigh-impossible. Try saying something like “Halo reach has a few core game play flaws” or something. Try not to be like those fan boys who go around waging war on YouTube. It is annoying.

This right here.

My favorite has to be when the ranter claims to be “speaking for majority of the community/fanbase”.

15

> > dude, trying to take some who is calling “Halo:Reach” “Reach” is like trying to take someone on helium seriously. Nigh-impossible. Try saying something like “Halo reach has a few core game play flaws” or something. Try not to be like those fan boys who go around waging war on YouTube. It is annoying.
>
> This right here.
>
> My favorite has to be when the ranter claims to be “speaking for majority of the community/fanbase”.

Hay, we have matching avatars!

I agree on your point that users shouldn’t make claims that their ideas match with the majority because those claims cannot be proven unless there are statistics to match. Through polls, though, then “majority” claims could be made in a sense.

16

Edited by a moderator. Please refrain from flaming or attacking other members.

17

> > dude, trying to take some who is calling “Halo:Reach” “Reach” is like trying to take someone on helium seriously. Nigh-impossible. Try saying something like “Halo reach has a few core game play flaws” or something. Try not to be like those fan boys who go around waging war on YouTube. It is annoying.
>
> This right here.
>
> My favorite has to be when the ranter claims to be “speaking for majority of the community/fanbase”.

My favorite is when a group who acknowledges their minority status (so called “competitive” players) believes that they should set the rules for everyone else. They do this while playing the same game in extraordnary amounts and then refer to it as trash and “Reach”. Strange indeed.

18

i agree with everything you wrote. however i know why bungie made reach the way they did i remember when halo 3 came out people just moaned and said “its just halo 2 with new guns and better graphics” they new they had to changed the game and i guess AA and bloom was logical step

19

There’s a possibility that Urza IS speaking for the majority of the Halo fanbase. What you guys don’t realize is that the majority of that community/fanbase simply doesn’t play Reach anymore. Currently Reach’s overall population is less than a third of what Halo 3’s was at any given time DURING ITS DECLINE, i.e. during the months leading to Reach’s launch.

Despite that, there are things that have been done to improve the gameplay, yet there is still more that could have been done.

ZB is as close to classic Halo as firing mechanics get. It rewards those who aim well, use cover, and have good vision and tactics. Basically, it rewards the more skilled player. A lot of ppl complain about AAs, but the truly overpowered ones are AL and Jetpack. I don’t have problems with any of the others. AL supposedly has been nerfed by 343i, but I don’t play in playlists that use AL as a loadout (by coincidence) At the very least, now if you stick someone that hasn’t gone into AL yet, you’ll still get the kill. They should nerf the jetpack so that you can’t recharge it until you land. That will keep players from flying way too high where they’ll reach that terminal velocity height. Or make it so that if you’re sniped, hit with an EMP from concussion rifle or nade launcher or overcharged PP, your ability shuts down.

That being said, MLG has the best of both worlds. ZB DMRs, and they made the AAs pickups, like the equipment from Halo 3. This is a beautiful thing. Loadouts are a big problem for the game. You can’t use loadouts in the campaign, whatever you start each mission with is what you have, and if you want to change your AA, you gotta go find it. MM should have been designed the same way. You want AL? Go get it. You want Camo? Go get it. But when you get there, guess what? You gotta fight for it. What this would do, like it does with neutral power weapon spawns on maps, is direct the flow of the game to these key points to create the most conflict and chaos and determine who will get control of a certain area of the map.

For the record, Halo 3 had changed plenty from Halo 2 besides the guns and graphics. Matter of fact, the only weapon changes Halo 3 made were to incorporate the hammer, spiker and mauler, and bring back the AR. Then there was the equipment aspect of things. Bungie had some good ideas for Reach that were implemented poorly, and they added way too much of the new features instead of maybe easing ppl into it with only a few AAs instead of 7. And since Bungie knew they were on their way out, they didn’t establish much effort, if at all, to listen to the feedback of most of the players who have since left. 343 is going to do their best to acquiesce to the community’s wishes, but at some point they have to abandon Reach and really concentrate on making Halo 4 as good as it can be.

20

Very good thread.

Hopefully 343i reads it and takes idea from here to implement to Halo 4.

TC Spartan