reach was a nod to halo: ce. Halo 4 will be a nod to halo 2

Despite what you think about armor abilities, Halo Reach was otherwise a tribute to the part of the community that loves Halo CE more than any of the other games. It incorporated:

Fall damage
Med packs
No duel wielding
Shorter jumping
Halo CE shields
Unique weapons (except for the plasma repeater)
1-shot DMR that functioned like the Halo: CE pistol
No Battle Rifle
Bloom like in the original Bloom in Halo 1
They un-nerfed weapons like the Needler and Plasma pistol

I think 343i will try to go for the Halo 2 feel this time. Yes, I understand armor abilities are NOT rooted in Halo’s origins, but pretty much everything else in Reach was. In this light, I think Halo 4 will be MOSTLY like Halo 2, with a few new things added.

Hopefully. Halo 2/3 is my favorite’s.

> 1-shot DMR that functioned like the Halo: CE pistol
> Bloom like in the original Bloom in Halo 1

This is incorrect. The so called “bloom” in Halo CE was nothing like the DMR bloom. The pistol only went inaccurate if you held the trigger down, and no player would ever do that. The DMR was also as far from the magnum as you can get. It had a minimum kill time of 1.6 seconds whereas the CE magnum had 0.6 seconds. The CE magnum was also three shot kill unlike the DMR and took much more skill to use.

Bungie tried to take a CE style approach with Reach. They did, but their problem was that the screwed the feel in every way you can possibly think of. Yes, the weapon sandbox was balanced, but instead of all weapons being powerful, they all were weak. Then there was the strafing and movement speed that were as far from CE as you can get.

So, having played a lot of CE, I can safely say that even though Reach tried to mimic it, it ended up as far from it as possible. But what comes to Halo 4, I believe they’re just trying to find what they think is the sweet spot. It’s obvious that Halo 2 is the most liked Halo, so it wouldn’t be a miracle if they tried to do that. Anyhow, at the moment the game only vaguely seems like Halo 2. And even if that feel was their goal, I believe they would do what Bungie did, end up as far from thier goal as possible.

I don’t know where you are coming from, Halo 2 was still the most like Halo CE. Halo Reach was separate from Halo CE by:

Unskilled simple Melee system
Slower movement Speed
Increased random factors
Bloom (Which worked COMPLETELY different in CE, RoF didn’t affect pistol accuracy if you tap the trigger)
Absolutely useless Magnum (comparison to DMR/NR)
VERY slow kill times
VERY weak Covenant weapons (Focus Rifle, Plasma Launcher, etc) and the Needler was stronger in Halo 3 than in Reach.
Aim Assist on Grenades
Much shorter duration of time between Grenade Throws
Hitscan instead of Shot Lead
VERY VERY bad Multiplayer Maps
Uninteresting, Unemotional Campaign
Elites are like Brutes instead of Elites
Grunts don’t speak English, and aren’t funny
Marines are entirely serious, and not funny
Armor Abilities
etc.

How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?

Dual Wield
High Jump Height
Nerfed Grenades
Nerfed Covie Weapons

That was about it.

As a blow of wind destroys a castle of cards, so armor abilities and random factors destroyed what you said.

> I don’t know where you are coming from, Halo 2 was still the most like Halo CE. Halo Reach was separate from Halo CE by:
>
> Unskilled simple Melee system
> Slower movement Speed
> Increased random factors What?
> Bloom (Which worked COMPLETELY different in CE, RoF didn’t affect pistol accuracy if you tap the trigger)What?
> Absolutely useless Magnum (comparison to DMR/NR)You were just doin’ it wrong.
> VERY slow kill times Still 4 shot with DMR so… Not really.
> VERY weak Covenant weapons (Focus Rifle, Plasma Launcher, etc) and the Needler was stronger in Halo 3 than in Reach. Opinion
> Aim Assist on Grenades Does that really matter?
> Much shorter duration of time between Grenade Throws
> Hitscan instead of Shot Lead
> VERY VERY bad Multiplayer Maps Opinion
> Uninteresting, Unemotional Campaign Opinion
> Elites are like Brutes instead of Elites What?
> Grunts don’t speak English, and aren’t funny Just like in CE
> Marines are entirely serious, and not funny You just really hate Reach don’t you?
> Armor Abilities
> etc.
>
>
> How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
>
> Dual Wield
> High Jump Height
> Nerfed Grenades
> Nerfed Covie Weapons
> …
>
> That was about it.

> I don’t know where you are coming from, Halo 2 was still the most like Halo CE. Halo Reach was separate from Halo CE by:
>
> Unskilled simple Melee system
> Slower movement Speed
> Increased random factors
> Bloom (Which worked COMPLETELY different in CE, RoF didn’t affect pistol accuracy if you tap the trigger)
> <mark>Absolutely useless Magnum (comparison to DMR/NR)</mark>
> VERY slow kill times
> VERY weak Covenant weapons (Focus Rifle, Plasma Launcher, etc) and the Needler was stronger in Halo 3 than in Reach.
> Aim Assist on Grenades
> Much shorter duration of time between Grenade Throws
> Hitscan instead of Shot Lead
> VERY VERY bad Multiplayer Maps
> Uninteresting, Unemotional Campaign
> Elites are like Brutes instead of Elites
> Grunts don’t speak English, and aren’t funny
> Marines are entirely serious, and not funny
> Armor Abilities
> etc.
>
>
> <mark>How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?</mark>
> Dual Wield
> High Jump Height
> Nerfed Grenades
> Nerfed Covie Weapons
> …
>
> That was about it.

Have you ever used the magnum? It destroys both of those weapons in CQC.

You also forgot:
vehicle hijacking
weapons: BR, carbine, brute shot, SMG, brute plasma rifle, beam rifle, sentinel beam, useable fuel rod gun and enegy sword
vehicles: spectre, useable wraith
Campaign: Boss fights, play as elites, jetpacking elites …

the list goes on and on

> I don’t know where you are coming from, Halo 2 was still the most like Halo CE. Halo Reach was separate from Halo CE by:
>
> Unskilled simple Melee system
> Slower movement Speed
> Increased random factors
> Bloom (Which worked COMPLETELY different in CE, RoF didn’t affect pistol accuracy if you tap the trigger)
> Absolutely useless Magnum (comparison to DMR/NR)
> VERY slow kill times
> VERY weak Covenant weapons (Focus Rifle, Plasma Launcher, etc) and the Needler was stronger in Halo 3 than in Reach.
> Aim Assist on Grenades
> Much shorter duration of time between Grenade Throws
> Hitscan instead of Shot Lead
> VERY VERY bad Multiplayer Maps
> Uninteresting, Unemotional Campaign
> Elites are like Brutes instead of Elites
> Grunts don’t speak English, and aren’t funny
> Marines are entirely serious, and not funny
> Armor Abilities
> etc.
>
>
> How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
>
> Dual Wield
> High Jump Height
> Nerfed Grenades
> Nerfed Covie Weapons
> …
>
> That was about it.

There was a TON different with Halo 2. People were flaming Halo 2 for adding dual wielding, taking out the pistol, and nurfing weapons. Not to mention the game-breaking glitches like super-bouncing, BXR, and people stealing host in matchmaking. Lets not forget about the n00b combo. Also, vehicle destructibility, jacking vehicles, playing as the Arbiter (people wouldn’t stop complaining about that), no assault rifle, amped up melee damage, rockets locked on (everyone hated that too). Plus the campaign was much more linear than Halo: CE, whereas Reach was more open-spaced like the original.

Although Halo 2 was my favorite Halo, I do see it as being less like Halo: CE than even Reach.

> Bloom like in the original Bloom in Halo 1

Depends on how you pull the trigger

(Halo 1 actually moderates bloom based on trigger hold duration, not rate of fire. Strictly speaking, you sort of have to wait a tiny bit slower than max-rof to COMPLETELY reset the bloom between shots, but it’s barely noticeable and usually unnecessary anyway.)

OP is right, but also wrong.

Every one of Bungie’s intentions were great, including the ones they made around making it look more like CE (such as the beta pistol, it was beast).

However, the implementation of these ideas didn’t turn out to be as great as they sounded on paper. Armor abilities? neat! But not on spawn! Bloom? Okay, a skillful aim mechanic. Except that it rewards spammers and causes frustration in general. Sprint? Neat, ‘faster paced gameplay’… It turned out to be anything but fast. Even worse, the maps suck because they were designed to take sprint into account. and so forth.

Some aspects of Reach are epic compared to previous Halos, though they are forgotten because of the problems the other additions bring. The Grenade Launcher, the overall weapon balance (a pistol can actually take out a DMR now), good graphics, updated motion tracker, epic forge, the fact how it actually plays better on MLG settings than the MLG settings back in Halo 3, a sniper that is consistant, firefight and epic armor customisation, et cetera. We’ve taken all of these for granted, but they really were great additions to the game.

TL;DR: it does not matter that much what your general competitive intentions are, as long as they are implemented and balanced out perfectly and competitively and retain the classic Halo formula at its core.

Reach was a tribute to CE, but not a proper one. I hate it because it’s like a CE-H2-H3 hybrid. It’s sabotaged by some of the bad things introduced in the newer Halos.

> Despite what you think about armor abilities, Halo Reach was otherwise a tribute to the part of the community that loves Halo CE more than any of the other games. It incorporated:
>
> Fall damage
> Med packs
> No duel wielding
> Shorter jumping
> Halo CE shields
> Unique weapons (except for the plasma repeater)
> 1-shot DMR that functioned like the Halo: CE pistol
> No Battle Rifle
> Bloom like in the original Bloom in Halo 1
> They un-nerfed weapons like the Needler and Plasma pistol
>
> I think 343i will try to go for the Halo 2 feel this time. Yes, I understand armor abilities are NOT rooted in Halo’s origins, but pretty much everything else in Reach was. In this light, I think Halo 4 will be MOSTLY like Halo 2, with a few new things added.

Fall damage is unsuitable in a fast paced game, not that Reach ever had a chance to be one.

The jump height is way too small. I could crouch jump on Elites in CE.

The shields are vastly inferior to CE shields. The recharge rate does not gain an increase on Legendary and the durability is absurd.

If anything, plasma repeater was the one unique weapon. Nowhere else have we seen manual venting. Needle rifle, concussion rifle, focus rifle, plasma launcher are either reskinned weapons or combination of weapons.

The CE pistol could induce flinching in AI, could be used to confuse AI, could be used close-long range, was devastating against infantry and vehicles, and where it hit was easy to spot. The only trait the DMR has is range, accuracy, and vehicle devastation.

The needler wasn’t nerfed in H3. In H2, it was nerfed because of dual wielding. The needler seems to be even more nerfed in Reach, being near useless against Elites. You’re right about the plasma pistol, but it’s overcharge is near useless when used by the player and the plasma pistol bolts don’t have bullet drop.

> Although Halo 2 was my favorite Halo, I do see it as being less like Halo: CE than even Reach.

The AI. H2 AI were quite easy to manipulate. Jackal snipers might have been op, but besides those fellas, everything else was quite easy to pwn, just like in CE.

In Reach, I find it extremely difficult to get AI to do what I want. Whether they’re troopers or Elites, they always find a way to drive me nuts.

Although Reach has some CE aspects to it, Halo 1 and Halo Reach do not play anything alike to the experienced player. Also, Their was no bloom on the CE pistol there was spread ONLY when you held the trigger down which no one did. Halo 1 is like the anomaly of the Halo franchise, its probably impossible to replicate its greatness in this day and age.

> > I don’t know where you are coming from, Halo 2 was still the most like Halo CE. Halo Reach was separate from Halo CE by:
> >
> > Unskilled simple Melee system
> > Slower movement Speed
> > Increased random factors
> > Bloom (Which worked COMPLETELY different in CE, RoF didn’t affect pistol accuracy if you tap the trigger)
> > Absolutely useless Magnum (comparison to DMR/NR)
> > VERY slow kill times
> > VERY weak Covenant weapons (Focus Rifle, Plasma Launcher, etc) and the Needler was stronger in Halo 3 than in Reach.
> > Aim Assist on Grenades
> > Much shorter duration of time between Grenade Throws
> > Hitscan instead of Shot Lead
> > VERY VERY bad Multiplayer Maps
> > Uninteresting, Unemotional Campaign
> > Elites are like Brutes instead of Elites
> > Grunts don’t speak English, and aren’t funny
> > Marines are entirely serious, and not funny
> > Armor Abilities
> > etc.
> >
> >
> > How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
> >
> > Dual Wield
> > High Jump Height
> > Nerfed Grenades
> > Nerfed Covie Weapons
> > …
> >
> > That was about it.
>
> There was a TON different with Halo 2. People were flaming Halo 2 for adding dual wielding, taking out the pistol, and nurfing weapons. Not to mention the game-breaking glitches like super-bouncing, BXR, and people stealing host in matchmaking. Lets not forget about the n00b combo. Also, vehicle destructibility, jacking vehicles, playing as the Arbiter (people wouldn’t stop complaining about that), no assault rifle, amped up melee damage, rockets locked on (everyone hated that too). Plus the campaign was much more linear than Halo: CE, whereas Reach was more open-spaced like the original.
>
> Although Halo 2 was my favorite Halo, I do see it as being less like Halo: CE than even Reach.

I agree. Comparing Halo 2 to Halo: CE is ridiculous. They are totally different.

I can’t believe people still think Reach Bloom = CE Bloom. smh…

> How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
>
> Dual Wield
> High Jump Height
> Nerfed Grenades
> Nerfed Covie Weapons
> …
>
> That was about it.

Read my thread. You’re very wrong… Halo 1 to Halo 2 was the most drastic change between any Halo game… Link → http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst58734_-Halo-2-was-the-most-drastically-changed-Halo--NOT-Reach.aspx

> Despite what you think about armor abilities, Halo Reach was otherwise a tribute to the part of the community that loves Halo CE more than any of the other games. It incorporated:
>
> Fall damage
> Med packs
> No duel wielding
> Shorter jumping
> Halo CE shields
> Unique weapons (except for the plasma repeater)
> 1-shot DMR that functioned like the Halo: CE pistol
> No Battle Rifle
> Bloom like in the original Bloom in Halo 1
> They un-nerfed weapons like the Needler and Plasma pistol
>
> I think 343i will try to go for the Halo 2 feel this time. Yes, I understand armor abilities are NOT rooted in Halo’s origins, but pretty much everything else in Reach was. In this light, I think Halo 4 will be MOSTLY like Halo 2, with a few new things added.

you are a fool if you think reach is anythign like CE

> > How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
> >
> > Dual Wield
> > High Jump Height
> > Nerfed Grenades
> > Nerfed Covie Weapons
> > …
> >
> > That was about it.
>
> Read my thread. You’re very wrong… Halo 1 to Halo 2 was the most drastic change between any Halo game… Link → http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst58734_-Halo-2-was-the-most-drastically-changed-Halo--NOT-Reach.aspx

the changes from CE to 2 were just concession to enable online play in crappy 2004 internet. stop being so dramatic

> > > How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
> > >
> > > Dual Wield
> > > High Jump Height
> > > Nerfed Grenades
> > > Nerfed Covie Weapons
> > > …
> > >
> > > That was about it.
> >
> > Read my thread. You’re very wrong… Halo 1 to Halo 2 was the most drastic change between any Halo game… Link → http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst58734_-Halo-2-was-the-most-drastically-changed-Halo--NOT-Reach.aspx
>
> the changes from CE to 2 were just concession to enable online play in crappy 2004 internet. stop being so dramatic

… uTrollin? Halo 1 played perfectly fine in an online environment, whether it was through XBC or the PC version. Stop being ignorant.

> > > > How different was Halo 2 from Halo CE REALLY?
> > > >
> > > > Dual Wield
> > > > High Jump Height
> > > > Nerfed Grenades
> > > > Nerfed Covie Weapons
> > > > …
> > > >
> > > > That was about it.
> > >
> > > Read my thread. You’re very wrong… Halo 1 to Halo 2 was the most drastic change between any Halo game… Link → http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst58734_-Halo-2-was-the-most-drastically-changed-Halo--NOT-Reach.aspx
> >
> > the changes from CE to 2 were just concession to enable online play in crappy 2004 internet. stop being so dramatic
>
> … uTrollin? Halo 1 played perfectly fine in an online environment, whether it was through XBC or the PC version. Stop being ignorant.

no it didnt. I played XBC and while nice games occured, lag was common. pc=/= console CE. either way to get 8v8 a possibility hit scan and tons of aim assist were necessary for ppl with DSL

either way while i agree the chages from ce-h2 were stupid most were for online liek add of hit scan, more aim assist, etc

other changes like rocket lock, exploading vehicles etc while IMO bad werenot game shattering bad like the changes H3-reach

CE-H2 is adaptable
H2-h3 is adaptable

since all teh fundamentals are still there. H3-reach tossed even the basics out the window

There were certain things I liked the changes between H3 and Reach. Mainly hitscan and higher FoV. What I absolutely hated were the changes between Halo 2 and Halo 3.

Yeah, we got the reduction of auto-aim between H2 and H3, but for what? BR spread, lower FoV, crappy netcode, bullet travel and overall much slower pace of the game coupled with randomness on utility weapons even on LAN.