REACH RANT

Ran, rant, rant, rant, rant, rant… Look dude, I’ve been playing Halo since the beginning. In my opinion, reach was a good game n terms of what Bungie wanted the game to be. They didn’t tell us that it was going to be just like Halo 1, 2, and 3. They wanted to change up the feel of the game and they did. Reach was Halo with a twist. ODST was Halo from a different perspective. Change is the way of life. You need to adapt. You can’t just keep doing the same thing over and over. Bungie nailed Reach. They did exactly what they wanted with the game. Stop putting down Reach…

I’m sorry but I can’t. Reach has good moments, but too many bad ones. As far as I’m concerned it is vastly inferior to all other halo games, although I have yet to play Halo Wars. CE was my favourite, while 2,3, and odst are not far behind. All 4 have much better gameplay. While Combat Evolved had its drawbacks such as aimbot or wall hacking it still played better than Reach. It’s practically empty nowadays, its dedicated servers almost gone, but there are still people who play it over the new games.

I find a constant with video games is old games usually have much better gameplay than newer ones. They didn’t have the luxury of modern technology and made due with what they had. Go back 10 years and find Combat Evolved, its campaign I played over dozens of times and spent thousands of hours online. When I tire of Reach I either play that over or run through Halo 2 again. Halo Reach in my opinion is Bungie’s baby - they wanted to make a halo title that would look as good as possible with the technology they had (360). Sure it looks good, but looks aren’t everything.

> Ran, rant, rant, rant, rant, rant… Look dude, I’ve been playing Halo since the beginning. In my opinion, reach was a good game n terms of what Bungie wanted the game to be. They didn’t tell us that it was going to be just like Halo 1, 2, and 3. They wanted to change up the feel of the game and they did. Reach was Halo with a twist. ODST was Halo from a different perspective. Change is the way of life. You need to adapt. You can’t just keep doing the same thing over and over. Bungie nailed Reach. They did exactly what they wanted with the game. Stop putting down Reach…

A great many of the people that dislike Reach aren’t attacking the game because they can’t adapt, nor because they were expecting an exact carbon copy of Halo 1/2/3.

The people that dislike Reach do so because most of its changes are objectively not skillful. They weren’t expecting a carbon copy of a past Halo game. What they were expecting, and quite understandably so given Halo’s history, were skillful game mechanics, which tend to satisfy players of all varieties (even the oft-vilified casuals) more than non-skillful mechanics do. Quite a few of the people who dislike Reach have nonetheless adapted and can perform well; however, a flaw is a flaw even if you can deal with it, and they recognize that fact.

This is not to say that you’re wrong for liking Reach. However, the people that dislike Reach aren’t mindlessly bashing it, nor are they bashing it for the simplistic reasons that you assume they are. Their anti-Reach opinions aren’t worth any less than the pro-Reach opinions held by you and others, and are just as worthy of discussion.

That said, I know that constantly seeing hate threads about a game that you like can be irritating. The anti-Reach opinions probably won’t be going away any time soon, though. If the irritation gets to be more than you can handle, we do have other forums where one can talk about Reach (i.e. Community Creations for Forge, or Halo Universe for the story). :\

I agree an 100%. Reach was a good game. If they have the time to flap their lips about how they hate it, he or she and a whole bunch of the Halo community have time to go back to Halo 3 if it was so perfect.

> > Ran, rant, rant, rant, rant, rant… Look dude, I’ve been playing Halo since the beginning. In my opinion, reach was a good game n terms of what Bungie wanted the game to be. They didn’t tell us that it was going to be just like Halo 1, 2, and 3. They wanted to change up the feel of the game and they did. Reach was Halo with a twist. ODST was Halo from a different perspective. Change is the way of life. You need to adapt. You can’t just keep doing the same thing over and over. Bungie nailed Reach. They did exactly what they wanted with the game. Stop putting down Reach…
>
> A great many of the people that dislike Reach aren’t attacking the game because they can’t adapt, nor because they were expecting an exact carbon copy of Halo 1/2/3.
>
> The people that dislike Reach do so because most of its changes are objectively not skillful. They weren’t expecting a carbon copy of a past Halo game. What they were expecting, and quite understandably so given Halo’s history, were skillful game mechanics, which tend to satisfy players of all varieties (even the oft-vilified casuals) more than non-skillful mechanics do. Quite a few of the people who dislike Reach have nonetheless adapted and can perform well; however, a flaw is a flaw even if you can deal with it, and they recognize that fact.
>
> This is not to say that you’re wrong for liking Reach. However, the people that dislike Reach aren’t mindlessly bashing it, nor are they bashing it for the simplistic reasons that you assume they are. Their anti-Reach opinions aren’t worth any less than the pro-Reach opinions held by you and others, and are just as worthy of discussion.
>
> That said, I know that constantly seeing hate threads about a game that you like can be irritating. The anti-Reach opinions probably won’t be going away any time soon, though. If the irritation gets to be more than you can handle, we do have other forums where one can talk about Reach (i.e. Community Creations for Forge, or Halo Universe for the story). :\

Not skilful in the context of the old games. Every argument about why Reach is not skilful is some variation on " b b b b but halo CE/2/3"

Reach is a pretty drastic shift if the gameplay philosophy for a halo title, and taken by itself its excellent. If it had been the first game in the series instead of the latest i HIGHLY doubt we would have seen the level of -Yoinking!- that we have.

It still depresses me that people are so obviously utterly stuck in the old mindset of how to play a halo game. Reach has DIFFERENT skills, perhaps most of them are not directly comparable to the older games yet people tried to apply their old skillsets to the new game. Perhaps when you realise that you can indeed say Reach is not competitive if youre trying to play it like halo 3. For instance i believe that bungie tried to replace strafe rifle fights (dodging bullets by moving back and forth 2 feet is pretty silly lets be honest) with control of the bloom mechanic and headshot tracking to differentiate skill, but people just spammed away and tried to do the silly strafe dance anyway, then got frustrated. You even see “pros” doing this on the streams because they cant learn new skills just like the rest of these kids, perhaps thats why theyre all retiring now. And they tried to replace pure aggression and fine motor skill/twitch skills with a mixture of that and some tactical thinking, which is why the pace of the game is slightly slower. In short, they tried to innovate and people have spat in their face for it. I have learnt a lot about why COD keeps selling every year through all of this and why the games industry is stuffed full of sequels and almost no publisher wants to risk trying out a new IP.

Its been sooooo frustrating for me this whole time, for 18 months ive watched people try to ram the old halo skillset square peg into the Reach round hole until they literally cry with frustration and get on the forum to have an good old keyboard mash. I admit for the first 2 months or so with Reach i was the same, i didnt understand why my old tactics didnt work anymore. I actually hated no bleed melees for ages, i hated the bloom, because i didnt understand them, but eventually it just clicked and now going back to halo 3 it painful. I tried it 2 days ago, actually winning melee fights is impossible under most circumstances and i swear to god lots of BR rounds dont even register a hit, the whole thing feels loose and clunky.

Its like everyone has a form of gamer dementia and cant learn new things or something. Eventually the custodians of the game relented and tried to crowbar the old skillsets into the sandbox, with IMO horrid results. Even the 85% bloom just does not feel right, it does not feel right for me to be spamming a single shot rifle all the time, and the kills are not satisfying when all ive done is mash the trigger and let the magnetism do the work. Maybe it was ok in halo 3 because it was a burst rifle and static reticle, i dont know.

tl;dr you cant teach an old dog new tricks, and there are a lot of old dogs around here.

derp post

Another “adapt” argument, eh?

I, along with many of the people who speak against Reach, have adapted much better than you…and to be honest I like Reach, but that doesn’t mean I dont think its vastly inferior to the rest of the Halo titles.

Change for the sake of progress is a good thing. Change for the sake of change isn’t.

Not an adapt argument, my opinion. However if you had adapted, by definition you wouldnt still be complaining. I complained about armour lock and bloom and stuff for a while at first, but then i saw what Reach is about and its not about playing like old halo, and i stopped complaining. Thats adapting.

Any game that offers an achievement for using something like Armor Lock is pure trash.

> Not an adapt argument, my opinion. However if you had adapted, by definition you wouldnt still be complaining. I complained about armour lock and bloom and stuff for a while at first, but then i saw what Reach is about and its not about playing like old halo, and i stopped complaining. Thats adapting.

Complaining =/= not adapting.

I have adapted to how Reach plays and adjusted accordingly, but just because I’ve adapted to it doesn’t mean the mechanics aren’t flawed.

You don’t have to play it like an old halo to realize that a random precision weapon is an oxymoron, and that’s exactly what bloom does; it adds a random element to your shots. Forcing a player who is good enough to fire at the max RoF and still land every shot to slow down because of bloom doesn’t add skill; it takes it away. Furthermore, with a larger reticle (which bloom creates) it magnifies the aim assists and as a result also bullet magnetism, which allows players to hit shots they clearly should have missed.

You don’t have to play it like an old halo to realize that something like armor lock has no place in a slayer game, or any game for that matter. A player shouldn’t be able to basically press the pause button for up to 5 seconds because they got out played. They made a mistake, got outsmarted, or the other player was just flat of better…they shouldn’t get to delay the game because of any of those things.

Things like these simultaneously help poor players and punish good ones, which in turn lowers the skill gap. Lowering the skill gap in a historically competitive game was a terrible idea. Don’t believe me look at the MLG circuit. Halo essentially made that circuit as popular as it is, and then came Reach…now there’s no guarantee that there will even be another Halo event after Columbus.

> Not skilful in the context of the old games. Every argument about why Reach is not skilful is some variation on " b b b b but halo CE/2/3"

Here’s one that isn’t:

When most people describe skillful game mechanics without using some other game as a basis of comparison, they tend to be referring to game mechanics that offer rewards proportionate to the effort involved in their usage.

Given that definition, here are some examples of skillful game mechanics from outside the Halo series:

In Singularity, one can play as a Revert – a mutant that can puke out blobs of explosive phlegm that serve as landmines. Revert Bombs are very visually obvious, however, and most players will see them from a distance and shoot them to detonate them – no reward. However, if you became very crafty in your placement – say, placing them on the side of a ramp where the ramp meets a doorway – then the Bombs would go unnoticed, earning you an instant kill when a player tripped them. The effort you spend in placing your Revert Bombs directly determines the reward that you earn from them.

In Brink, it is possible to place Turrets that automatically sight and fire on targets. However, these Turrets are relatively vulnerable and easily destroyed. Therefore, placing them in visually obvious spots earned you only a small reward: turrets would damage an enemy and earn you EXP, but they would usually be destroyed before they killed their targets. To maximize your reward (kill the enemy), you had to exercise some effort in placing turrets: place them to the side of a doorway or around a corner, so that they could fill targets with a fair amount of lead before said targets could return fire. Again, you need to expend some effort in using this game mechanic in order to earn a greater reward.

Now, how does this relate to Reach? Reach contains a number of game mechanics that offer rewards for literally no expenditure of effort whatsoever. In some cases, these rewards are particularly egregious. For example, Armor Lock offers invincibility and retaliation (deflection and shedding) for literally nothing more than the press of a button. Jetpack allows players to wholly circumvent a level’s defined paths and threaten a superior team’s map control – not by fighting one’s way to the top, but by pressing a button and holding a joystick forward. Evade takes all the effort out of strafing, giving you a fast movement that shrinks and glitches your hitbox – again, for just the press of a button. Furthermore, additional expenditures of effort on these mechanics will not lead to additional rewards (except for AL+Melee, but the added effort there is nearly immeasurably small). People are being handed rewards instead of being made to work for them. That is not skillful.

> It still depresses me that people are so obviously utterly stuck in the old mindset of how to play a halo game. Reach has DIFFERENT skills, perhaps most of them are not directly comparable to the older games yet people tried to apply their old skillsets to the new game.

The only “new” “skill” Reach introduced to the game is pressing a button, and pressing a button at short regular intervals. Both tasks can be accomplished with relative ease by anyone with normal neuromuscular function.

> Except that there are quite a few people who have adapted, yet they still recognize that the thing they adapted to is objectively less skillful, and hence worse, than that which they previously enjoyed.

I won’t put down Reach.

Besides aim acceleration/smoothing/deadzone issues and weapon delay and specialization issues that Halo 3 also shared, and strafe acceleration which is not adjustable, and spawn system, it had the potential to be a mediocre game, as evidenced by Team Classic. The problem is the maps and game speed in MM are in a category of their own, magnitudes away from anything else, when compared to FPS’s past and present. Reach provides options to increase weapon damage and movement speed and limit AA’s. Therefore, in custom games, it is entirely possible to have an experience similar to other FPS games with custom settings and maps. It is not implemented anywhere in Matchmaking.

Therefore I will say Reach itself does not suck, and indeed has the capacity to be mediocre, but its Matchmaking as currently implemented is the most boring multiplayer experience I have ever had on any system in any genre in any year.

> > Not an adapt argument, my opinion. However if you had adapted, by definition you wouldnt still be complaining. I complained about armour lock and bloom and stuff for a while at first, but then i saw what Reach is about and its not about playing like old halo, and i stopped complaining. Thats adapting.
>
> Complaining =/= not adapting.
>
> I have adapted to how Reach plays and adjusted accordingly, but just because I’ve adapted to it doesn’t mean the mechanics aren’t flawed.
>
> You don’t have to play it like an old halo to realize that a random precision weapon is an oxymoron, and that’s exactly what bloom does; it adds a random element to your shots. Forcing a player who is good enough to fire at the max RoF and still land every shot to slow down because of bloom doesn’t add skill; it takes it away. Furthermore, with a larger reticle (which bloom creates) it magnifies the aim assists and as a result also bullet magnetism, which allows players to hit shots they clearly should have missed.
>
> You don’t have to play it like an old halo to realize that something like armor lock has no place in a slayer game, or any game for that matter. A player shouldn’t be able to basically press the pause button for up to 5 seconds because they got out played. They made a mistake, got outsmarted, or the other player was just flat of better…they shouldn’t get to delay the game because of any of those things.
>
> Things like these simultaneously help poor players and punish good ones, which in turn lowers the skill gap. Lowering the skill gap in a historically competitive game was a terrible idea. Don’t believe me look at the MLG circuit. Halo essentially made that circuit as popular as it is, and then came Reach…now there’s no guarantee that there will even be another Halo event after Columbus.

No, the max ROF of the DMR is the one that allows you to consistently hit your target at whatever range its at. You CAN fire faster than that if you choose, but then you man up and deal with uncertainty. Imagine if doubleshotting a BR was a standard practice but the reticle went haywire, or you could CHOOSE to fire it at the normal rate and the reticle stays put. Reach was the first game that gave you this control instead of holding your hand ROF wise, but you didnt realise this and ive had to explain it to you. So no, you you have not adapted and never will. And the magnetism decreases as bloom increases, so thats wrong.

AL is another can of worms, its usually detrimental to yourself more than anything if youre near death and you lock down for the full time. Youre just wasting time you could be using respawning faster. Yet another case of not knowing how to play the damn game.

And “but MLG” is not a valid argument.

> > Not skilful in the context of the old games. Every argument about why Reach is not skilful is some variation on " b b b b but halo CE/2/3"
>
> Here’s one that isn’t:
>
> When most people describe skillful game mechanics without using some other game as a basis of comparison, they tend to be referring to game mechanics that offer rewards proportionate to the effort involved in their usage.
>
> Given that definition, here are some examples of skillful game mechanics from outside the Halo series:
>
> In Singularity, one can play as a Revert – a mutant that can puke out blobs of explosive phlegm that serve as landmines. Revert Bombs are very visually obvious, however, and most players will see them from a distance and shoot them to detonate them – no reward. However, if you became very crafty in your placement – say, placing them on the side of a ramp where the ramp meets a doorway – then the Bombs would go unnoticed, earning you an instant kill when a player tripped them. The effort you spend in placing your Revert Bombs directly determines the reward that you earn from them.
>
> In Brink, it is possible to place Turrets that automatically sight and fire on targets. However, these Turrets are relatively vulnerable and easily destroyed. Therefore, placing them in visually obvious spots earned you only a small reward: turrets would damage an enemy and earn you EXP, but they would usually be destroyed before they killed their targets. To maximize your reward (kill the enemy), you had to exercise some effort in placing turrets: place them to the side of a doorway or around a corner, so that they could fill targets with a fair amount of lead before said targets could return fire. Again, you need to expend some effort in using this game mechanic in order to earn a greater reward.
>
> Now, how does this relate to Reach? Reach contains a number of game mechanics that offer rewards for literally no expenditure of effort whatsoever. In some cases, these rewards are particularly egregious. For example, Armor Lock offers invincibility and retaliation (deflection and shedding) for literally nothing more than the press of a button. Jetpack allows players to wholly circumvent a level’s defined paths and threaten a superior team’s map control – not by fighting one’s way to the top, but by pressing a button and holding a joystick forward. Evade takes all the effort out of strafing, giving you a fast movement that shrinks and glitches your hitbox – again, for just the press of a button. Furthermore, additional expenditures of effort on these mechanics will not lead to additional rewards (except for AL+Melee, but the added effort there is nearly immeasurably small). People are being handed rewards instead of being made to work for them. That is not skillful.
>
>
>
> > It still depresses me that people are so obviously utterly stuck in the old mindset of how to play a halo game. Reach has DIFFERENT skills, perhaps most of them are not directly comparable to the older games yet people tried to apply their old skillsets to the new game.
>
> The only “new” “skill” Reach introduced to the game is pressing a button, and pressing a button at short regular intervals. Both tasks can be accomplished with relative ease by anyone with normal neuromuscular function.
>
>
>
> > Except that there are quite a few people who have adapted, yet they still recognize that the thing they adapted to is objectively less skillful, and hence worse, than that which they previously enjoyed.
>
> Youve only addressed how armour abilities affect the game. If they were all removed tomorrow the game would be fine according to you i take it?
>
> You cannot say anything is objectively skilful because what people consider skilful is purely up to them, same with “effort”. I find it skilful to use the jetpack to run around my opponent like a a spider, i dont find it skilful to fly straight up for no reason. I find using AL as an offensive AA skilful, i dont find it skilful to sit down for 7 seconds just because im about to die. You say its all objectively not skilful and low effort, but again you can only say that in comparison to something…the old games. Or even some completely different ones. And you shouldnt be doing that because Reach is a different ‘bloodline’ to those games if you will. Your assertion that all reach brought to the table is pressing a button is a gross oversimplification too.
>
> Christ if Reach really is this easy, why arnt all the armchair pros destroying everything in sight all the time? If some AA is so powerful, why dont they just use it themselves? Its more fun to complain?

> And “but MLG” is not a valid argument.

And “but Reach is new” is not a valid argument, either.

> > And “but MLG” is not a valid argument.
>
> And “but Reach is new” is not a valid argument, either.

so i shouldn’t treat a new game like a new game?

… …

> Christ if Reach really is this easy, why arnt all the armchair pros destroying everything in sight all the time? If some AA is so powerful, why dont they just use it themselves? Its more fun to complain?

They do. Costa is still able to Jetpack himself to Onyx, good players are still destroying. The random elements in this game to even it out for the lesser-skilled players reduces that gap a substantial amount.

It’s like in Team Fortress, on a vanilla server, some guns have the chance of a random critical hit. A critical hit makes a weapon do 2x damage for however long. In TF2, good teams will still dominate, but there is always that chance some lucky Soldier who an barely aim gets a lucky crit rocket can 1-hit every single class. He could miss 3/4 shots of his rocket launcher, and just get lucky on the last hit. He could be at 2 health, and just about to get shot by a Heavy, but he fires off a random rocket and gets a free, lucky kill. Bloom is very similar in that a pro could be pacing, but some random could spam his trigger, and just happen to pull off a lucky 5-shot with a max-bloom Pistol. Now is this really fair or balanced gameplay? Or even a show of skill?

> > > And “but MLG” is not a valid argument.
> >
> > And “but Reach is new” is not a valid argument, either.
>
> so i shouldn’t treat a new game like a new game?
>
> … …

And Reach is a new game. Using it as an excuse to disprove arguments against bad additions to the game is not valid.

btw, I thought you hid my posts?

> > Christ if Reach really is this easy, why arnt all the armchair pros destroying everything in sight all the time? If some AA is so powerful, why dont they just use it themselves? Its more fun to complain?
>
> They do. Costa is still able to Jetpack himself to Onyx, good players are still destroying. The random elements in this game to even it out for the lesser-skilled players reduces that gap a substantial amount.
>
> It’s like in Team Fortress, on a vanilla server, some guns have the chance of a random critical hit. A critical hit makes a weapon do 2x damage for however long. In TF2, good teams will still dominate, but there is always that chance some lucky Soldier who an barely aim gets a lucky crit rocket can 1-hit every single class. He could miss 3/4 shots of his rocket launcher, and just get lucky on the last hit. He could be at 2 health, and just about to get shot by a Heavy, but he fires off a random rocket and gets a free, lucky kill. Bloom is very similar in that a pro could be pacing, but some random could spam his trigger, and just happen to pull off a lucky 5-shot with a max-bloom Pistol. Now is this really fair or balanced gameplay? Or even a show of skill?

This is where youre going wrong. Youre in this mindset that bungie added things in reach just to give noobs a chance against your ungodly skill, just to piss you off. No wonder youre upset, youve framed yourself into this victim mentality. Its the same mindset competitive have had for every new halo game. You can even see it starting up in the h4 forum now. It never ends.

It doesnt even make sense, truskill is meant to take care of huge skill disparities not fudging the gameplay. Youre not that important flower.

Also you are right about tf2 crits, but um i dont think its supports your argument because isnt tf2 like one of the best games ever?

> > > Christ if Reach really is this easy, why arnt all the armchair pros destroying everything in sight all the time? If some AA is so powerful, why dont they just use it themselves? Its more fun to complain?
> >
> > They do. Costa is still able to Jetpack himself to Onyx, good players are still destroying. The random elements in this game to even it out for the lesser-skilled players reduces that gap a substantial amount.
> >
> > It’s like in Team Fortress, on a vanilla server, some guns have the chance of a random critical hit. A critical hit makes a weapon do 2x damage for however long. In TF2, good teams will still dominate, but there is always that chance some lucky Soldier who an barely aim gets a lucky crit rocket can 1-hit every single class. He could miss 3/4 shots of his rocket launcher, and just get lucky on the last hit. He could be at 2 health, and just about to get shot by a Heavy, but he fires off a random rocket and gets a free, lucky kill. Bloom is very similar in that a pro could be pacing, but some random could spam his trigger, and just happen to pull off a lucky 5-shot with a max-bloom Pistol. Now is this really fair or balanced gameplay? Or even a show of skill?
>
> This is where youre going wrong. Youre in this mindset that bungie added things in reach just to give noobs a chance against your ungodly skill, just to piss you off. No wonder youre upset, youve framed yourself into this victim mentality. Its the same mindset competitive have had for every new halo game. You can even see it starting up in the h4 forum now. It never ends.
>
> It doesnt even make sense, truskill is meant to take care of huge skill disparities not fudging the gameplay. Youre not that important flower.
>
> Also you are right about tf2 crits, but um i dont think its supports your argument because isnt tf2 like one of the best games ever?

TF2 has Hats.

If Halo: Reach had Hats then I think all arguments would become invalid. Bungie really should have thought about this kind of gimmick :3

Aside from that… Say what you want about the game, Reach is and will always be a brilliant game by my book.