"Reach 2"

“Reach 2” is the nickname some members in the competitive community have for Halo 4. I can’t say I disagree with them, but it’s not because of Sprint, AAs, Loadouts, etc., it’s because of how the settings will split the community. The thing Reach did worst was not any of the core changes, but the fundamentally separate gameplay changes between the default and competitive settings.

In Halo CE through Halo 3 players could switch between playlists seemlessly. I often enjoyed jumping into different playlists, but in Reach if I want to improve the only playlist I can play is MLG. While one could interpret this as the fault of MLG, it is not. Their job is to provide the most competitive settings which will attract viewers. Unfortunately default Halo for Reach, and how it is looking for Halo 4, MLG will have to make fundamental changes to the game to make it competitive,

Th reasoning behind AAs, instant respawn, drop weapon spawns, etc., not being competitive is for another thread. At the end of the day, any element which introduces randomness or decreases the skill-gap are not beneficial for gameplay. While they are unfortunately going to be in the game, hopefully they can be isolated from most of the game.

In the same way Invasion settings are limited to one playlist, hopefully most of 343’s changes will be limited as well. Bungie hyped up Invasion, but after the newness wore of the playlist died. In order to keep the most loyal piece of the fanbase from ditching the series after a decade, 343 needs to see what the players want. Put whatever settings you want in this playlist, and feel free to hype the game to casuals using those new features. The majority of the game needs to remain loyal to core halo gameplay mechanics if Halo 4 actually intends on being Halo 4, instead of “Reach 2”.

yeah

we all know this and they know it too but they’re not gonna be like hey casuals check out these gimmicks but you’ll only see them in a limited fashion

unfortunate but yeah

LOL is this cosssta?

Nope I can tell you this Reach will be better than halo 4 why.

.2 Armor ability’s at 1 time
.Join in game progress
.Random weapon spawns
.No spawn time

I sense not only Stuff that made Reach a horrible game to the core players. But to CLEARLY MAKE A CoD PARODY. Come on Joining in game progress??? NO SPAWN TIME??? 1 AA in reach people complied But no no you can have 2??? It’s Just does not seem right.

The Reason why they are saying you got to trust us and give out very little info in the pod cast is because they know people are going to buy HALO of DUTY just because it a halo game. I don’t care if you played halo CE and say you’re not going to get the game Keep telling your self that. But you are probably gonna get it even if it sucks.

> yeah
>
> we all know this and they know it too but they’re not gonna be like hey casuals check out these gimmicks but you’ll only see them in a limited fashion
>
> unfortunate but yeah

Bungie advertised Invasion like no other. They don’t have to say “oh yeah they’re only in one playlist”, it’s more like “Check out the cool new game mode and earn spartan credits as you armor lock and sprint around while weapons drop all around you so you dont get beat really badly”.

> The Reason why they are saying you got to trust us and give out very little info in the pod cast is because they know people are going to buy HALO of DUTY just because it a halo game. I don’t care if you played halo CE and say you’re not going to get the game Keep telling your self that. But you are probably gonna get it even if it sucks.

I’m buying it regardless but that’s not my point. If 343 wants this game to have a lifespan more than a few months they need to make the game competitive from the start. Players will keep on going as long as they notice improvement.

Halo 4 needs a classic playlist, this is where most of the competitive players could play.

I’m on the fence about various things i’ve heard about Halo 4. I haven’t really read a ton about Halo 4. I also haven’t played Halo Reach in a long while because I just wasn’t a fan of a lot of choices they made with it.

I understand they’re trying to appeal to a broader audience. It’s obvious that every company wants their game to succeed in the way that CoD does. What they don’t realize is that if they continue to change their games to appeal to said audience, they will start changing what makes Halo, Halo, and in doing so they will start alienating their core fan base.

I’m hoping Halo 4 will be able to find the right amount of balance for skilled and unskilled players.

I fear you are right costa, they expect to have faith in the direction they are going but after the way reach turned out, I wish they would just listen to what the majority of their fans want.

> > yeah
> >
> > we all know this and they know it too but they’re not gonna be like hey casuals check out these gimmicks but you’ll only see them in a limited fashion
> >
> > unfortunate but yeah
>
> Bungie advertised Invasion like no other. They don’t have to say “oh yeah they’re only in one playlist”, it’s more like “Check out the cool new game mode and earn spartan credits as you armor lock and sprint around while weapons drop all around you so you dont get beat really badly”.

i know what you mean but default was still awful

they’re not gonna make default to the standards of the past titles and then market the new gimmicks and have them confined to one playlist

maybe if they market campaign and spartan ops to a huge degree they could get away with that but casuals would still be like hey i bought this game for loadouts and armor abilities why are they only in team busted

The reason you were forced to play MLG to improve as a player has nothing to do with the mechanics or the new features.

The reason why in Reach, the competitive / casual players were split into two groups using quite distinct settings / variants of the same is because <mark>none were ever defined as the true Ranked / competitive settings for both communities.</mark>

Halo 3 had Ranked which allowed even the competitive players to improve themselves outside of settings too different from the base game. Reach would still have been good if Ranked was there. The settings put in Ranked playlists would have become what is considered “competitive” amongst the competitive players, and even the casuals, hence the importance of having a popular ranking system once again.

And, MLG on their side, has to learn to turn these new features into something competitive instead of going back to the same core Halo all the time. Bloom was the ONLY thing that was worth removal, not Sprint or all the maps. It ended up hurting Halo amongst MLG because a lot of casuals lost interest in it.

/2¢ about the importance of Ranked

On that note, go support this thread to have proper Ranked matchmaking again: http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst73774_Proper-Ranked-Matchmaking--New-Features.aspx

oh, so the hardcore competitive players make the bulk of the population now?
(In response to the comment about the game’s lifespan.)
I’ll tell you what’s special about Halo.
Forge and custom games. Halo has the best custom game options on console by far and the ability to craft your own playspaces for things as crazy as lifesized hockey or skee-ball really make Halo stand out.
The only other game I can think of on console that allows you more options for mapbuilding is FarCry2.

> “Reach 2” is the nickname some members in the competitive community have for Halo 4. I can’t say I disagree with them, but it’s not because of Sprint, AAs, Loadouts, etc., it’s because of how the settings will split the community. The thing Reach did worst was not any of the core changes, but the fundamentally separate gameplay changes between the default and competitive settings.
>
> In Halo CE through Halo 3 players could switch between playlists seemlessly. I often enjoyed jumping into different playlists, but in Reach if I want to improve the only playlist I can play is MLG. While one could interpret this as the fault of MLG, it is not. Their job is to provide the most competitive settings which will attract viewers. Unfortunately default Halo for Reach, and how it is looking for Halo 4, MLG will have to make fundamental changes to the game to make it competitive,
>
> Th reasoning behind AAs, instant respawn, drop weapon spawns, etc., not being competitive is for another thread. At the end of the day, any element which introduces randomness or decreases the skill-gap are not beneficial for gameplay. While they are unfortunately going to be in the game, hopefully they can be isolated from most of the game.
>
> In the same way Invasion settings are limited to one playlist, hopefully most of 343’s changes will be limited as well. Bungie hyped up Invasion, but after the newness wore of the playlist died. In order to keep the most loyal piece of the fanbase from ditching the series after a decade, 343 needs to see what the players want. Put whatever settings you want in this playlist, and feel free to hype the game to casuals using those new features. The majority of the game needs to remain loyal to core halo gameplay mechanics if Halo 4 actually intends on being Halo 4, instead of “Reach 2”.

I swear im gonna start playing “tryhard terminology bingo” when reading posts like this in the future.

> The reason you were forced to play MLG to improve as a player has nothing to do with the mechanics or the new features.
>
> The reason why in Reach, the competitive / casual players were split into two groups using quite distinct settings / variants of the same is because <mark>none were ever defined as the true Ranked / competitive settings for both communities.</mark>
>
> Halo 3 had Ranked which allowed even the competitive players to improve themselves outside of settings too different from the base game. Reach would still have been good if Ranked was there. The settings put in Ranked playlists would have become what is considered “competitive” amongst the competitive players, and even the casuals, hence the importance of having a popular ranking system once again.
>
> And, MLG on their side, has to learn to turn these new features into something competitive instead of going back to the same core Halo all the time. Bloom was the ONLY thing that was worth removal, not Sprint or all the maps. It ended up hurting Halo amongst MLG because a lot of casuals lost interest in it.
>
> /2¢ about the importance of Ranked
>
> On that note, go support this thread to have proper Ranked matchmaking again: http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst73774_Proper-Ranked-Matchmaking--New-Features.aspx

No, that’s not true at all.

In H3 the default playlists were passable on a competitive level. There were MLG settings, but you didn’t HAVE to play them to get a competitive game.

In reach you have to play MLG settings in order to get a competitively viable game.

@TA Shabooty, you do realize that is EXACTLY what I’m explaining, right?

> > The Reason why they are saying you got to trust us and give out very little info in the pod cast is because they know people are going to buy HALO of DUTY just because it a halo game. I don’t care if you played halo CE and say you’re not going to get the game Keep telling your self that. But you are probably gonna get it even if it sucks.
>
> I’m buying it regardless but that’s not my point. If 343 wants this game to have a lifespan more than a few months they need to make the game competitive from the start. Players will keep on going as long as they notice improvement.

That’s the thing. Microsoft doesn’t care about the lifespan. The only thing that really matters is initial sales, and christmas sales.

***Credit for coining “Reach 2”

First one in FT to call it that. Thought of it myself :slight_smile:

> “Reach 2” is the nickname some members in the competitive community have for Halo 4. I can’t say I disagree with them, but it’s not because of Sprint, AAs, Loadouts, etc., it’s because of how the settings will split the community. The thing Reach did worst was not any of the core changes, but the fundamentally separate gameplay changes between the default and competitive settings.
>
> In Halo CE through Halo 3 players could switch between playlists seemlessly. I often enjoyed jumping into different playlists, but in Reach if I want to improve the only playlist I can play is MLG. While one could interpret this as the fault of MLG, it is not. Their job is to provide the most competitive settings which will attract viewers. Unfortunately default Halo for Reach, and how it is looking for Halo 4, MLG will have to make fundamental changes to the game to make it competitive,
>
> Th reasoning behind AAs, instant respawn, drop weapon spawns, etc., not being competitive is for another thread. At the end of the day, any element which introduces randomness or decreases the skill-gap are not beneficial for gameplay. While they are unfortunately going to be in the game, hopefully they can be isolated from most of the game.
>
> In the same way Invasion settings are limited to one playlist, hopefully most of 343’s changes will be limited as well. Bungie hyped up Invasion, but after the newness wore of the playlist died. In order to keep the most loyal piece of the fanbase from ditching the series after a decade, 343 needs to see what the players want. Put whatever settings you want in this playlist, and feel free to hype the game to casuals using those new features. The majority of the game needs to remain loyal to core halo gameplay mechanics if Halo 4 actually intends on being Halo 4, instead of “Reach 2”.

Kinda funny because the changes they are making to halo are to make it more of a multiplayer game but campaign will still have that magical feel. I just hope spartan Ops(placeholder name) will be like its own campiagn. ( maybe elite Ops as well).

I agree, but I honestly think MLG should just get over it and allow some of the more casual gameplay elements this time around. They’re contributing to the problem; a game dev in this day and age is not going to make a game with default multiplayer that fits MLG’s impossible standards on the console. That’s just that.

> Halo 4 needs a classic playlist, this is where most of the competitive players could play.

This is what he just said was bad. We don’t want a split game.