RE: Listen To your Core Audience

<mark>This is a reply I posted to this thread. I wanted to bring this response to light because I believe it hits points that people can’t seem to bring to words without sounding childish. Here it goes.</mark>

> Hi there, Halo fan since H:CE. Favorite title of the series is and will always be Halo 2.
>
> Now, on topic. There are a lot of people replying to these kinds of posts not exactly knowing what is meant by the, “doesn’t feel like Halo” complaint. There is a lot about this release that doesn’t attune to the way things were.
>
> Now, I understand change can be a good thing and Halo was always good with innovation with each release. I.E. Halo 2 with LIVE play and online ranked matches. Halo 3 with the new “accessories” (Bubble Shield, etc.) and Forge. And last and also least Halo: Reach, the -Yoink!- child of the series. It brought Arena Ratings, Load Outs and customizable Spartan armor. Keep in mind that all these additions to Halo didn’t really cut out of the game play (with the exception of starting with Camouflage in Reach). There were new things to use and adapt to when playing each release. Halo 4 did “innovation” differently by copying and pasting generic attributes and cutting out core elements of the Halo franchise to appeal to a broader audience.
>
> How? It’s simple, they took out most of the elements in Halo that made things challenging and catered to those who just didn’t like it for what it was; Halo. I understand that there are more social, non-competitive gamers out there than there are competitive gamers. These gimmicks are needed. But you’ve totally ruled out the competitive side of the game by not giving us classic playlists.
>
> Instant re-spawn is not all bad, in Infinity Slayer it can give chaos to the game if you’re into that and just wanna keep getting to the action. But this is more for a social, non-competitive playlist. If Infinity Slayer is it, then please gives us classic. It also influences tunnel vision. People who just died want to kill the guy who just killed him, so they smash X, sprint to the last location and run into a grenade; giving the other team 20 points in 4 seconds. People spawning too often leaves the map without a safe way to spawn, and this is why we get that guy who was just killed spawning behind us.
>
> Ordinance is another refreshing gimmick for the social, non-competitive audience. You don’t need to wait for OS or Shotgun to re-spawn, Hoss can have at it when he’s gotten enough kills. This keeps the ball rolling for that type of game play, I get it. But did you really have to remove static weapon spawns and power-ups for all other playlists? This really changes the game play for a competitive mind-set. If classic playlists are made, those static weapon spawns and power-ups need to come back. Also, Promethean Vision should be one of those power-ups. With the same cool down lasting until you die.
>
> Load outs and perks are things that work really well in a social, non-competitive playlist. Gives people that need for customization and feel like they can have their own Spartan. But for the competitive players, it’s not really needed. It kind of goes into the static weapon and power-up spawns. Starting with Camouflage is a little broken for competitive play. Preset Load Outs for the classic playlists can work very well, sprint won’t have TOO MUCH of a affect on game play. As long as I can pick up -Yoinking!- grenades when I kill a -Yoink!-.
>
> I really like Halo 4, I’ve played it a lot more than Halo: Reach. It actually feels right sometimes. The competitive community just needs something to turn to when they feel like killing Bob who’s standing still and firing his AR from half the world a way isn’t enough. Something to turn to without the gimmicks and nothing but raw, out-kill, out-think the enemy player style of game play.

BUMP

Looking for feedback.

> BUMP
>
> Looking for feedback.

I agree with nearly everything you said word for word. I play Slayer Pro the vast majority of the time and I think if they tweaked a few things you mentioned like respawn time and weapons on map (maybe a grenade buff if i’m getting greedy) then I’d be pretty much happy with everything.

I dont think there needs to be an us vs them mentality some people have when it comes to wanting changes made to halo 4. with different playlists everyone can get what they want.

> > BUMP
> >
> > Looking for feedback.
>
> I agree with nearly everything you said word for word. I play Slayer Pro the vast majority of the time and I think if they tweaked a few things you mentioned like respawn time and weapons on map (maybe a grenade buff if i’m getting greedy) then I’d be pretty much happy with everything.
>
> <mark>I dont think there needs to be an us vs them mentality</mark> some people have when it comes to wanting changes made to halo 4. with different playlists everyone can get what they want.

This is exactly what I want. At first I was one of those people who complained about the game as a whole. But after playing it a lot more, I see why they did what they did. I just don’t want them to write off the competitive community.

BUMP

I would like more responses. Some more support for fixes as simple as additional playlists. Halo fans new and old should get what they want.

You have made some valid points and I agree with them all, despite tending to be a casual player more than a competitive one. But I do like to get my competitive fix at times, so I think they should add in a competitve objective playist and maybe some more gametype specific, classic playists. I suppose the reason why they only added slayer pro is they did not want the players to get spread thin among the playlists. But at this point they should worry more about keeping loyal players who will (hopefully) keep these classic playlists healthy and alive

I’m pretty sure that Halo 4 has cast it’s line out and reeled in some new fans because of the changes. I’m glad for it, I just really hope they take some out when they make the classic playlists.

I want to see the 343 game that Reach became, where they listened (reasonably) to their fans, and fixed what seemed to be annoying everyone. They seem to be doing the opposite right now, they aren’t looking at forums, they aren’t fixing the problems with this game. It seems like 343 fixed Reach simply because it wasn’t their game, they had no ties to it, now with their own game under fire, they just ignore it and let it slide…This is not Call of Duty, if I wanted to play CoD, I’d go play BF3 instead, but that is beside the point. 343 needs to break away from EA and their series killing ways, and go back to the same AWESOME company that brought us Halo Wars and the revised Halo Reach

I agree with almost everything you said with the exception of sprint. It absolutely needs to be removed from any classic playlist.

All it does is turn the game i to a melee fest. I get meleed more in one game of halo 4 than in the entire rest of my halo career combined. All halo 4 matches consist of are sprinting into someone and meleeing them. This is also attributed to the fact that the dmr and br take too long too kill so its quick to just sprint and melee. In halo 1 a pistol would be able to take out a sprinter long before anyone would have a chance to melee you, same goes for the halo 2 br. I say halo 4 br needs a buff

“Also, Promethean Vision should be one of those power-ups. With the same cool down lasting until you die.”

Totally agree with this, Promethean vision is one of those things that I feel developers put into a game without truly thinking about it.(almost as bad as shield lock in halo reach) “In my opinion”

> I want to see the 343 game that Reach became, where they listened (reasonably) to their fans, and fixed what seemed to be annoying everyone. They seem to be doing the opposite right now, they aren’t looking at forums, they aren’t fixing the problems with this game. It seems like 343 fixed Reach simply because it wasn’t their game, they had no ties to it, now with their own game under fire, they just ignore it and let it slide…This is not Call of Duty, if I wanted to play CoD, I’d go play BF3 instead, but that is beside the point. 343 needs to break away from EA and their series killing ways, and go back to the same AWESOME company that brought us Halo Wars and the revised Halo Reach

First off, 343 had nothing to Halo Wars, and has ZERO affiliation with EA.

Secondly, to OP, lay off the bumps. It’s against the forum rules.

Sorry about the bumps. Just felt like there are posts that don’t make any valid points but get more attention. As I see, there are no flamers in this thread as of yet. I’m not sure if I hit home or there’s nothing for them to hate.

About sprint in classic. I only mentioned it being there because I’m not sure if it can be removed since it’s a core ability now. I myself do not sprint unless I have PV on. Too many times I run into gun fire with my weapon down.

While the bit about EA is dead on, 343 sort of had something to do with Halo Wars, several people from the now-defunct Ensemble form the core of 343i iirc. I certainly could be wrong though. This aside, @OP, yes, yes, and more yes. I’m really glad to finally see someone who wants some of the classic gameplay without acting like an entitled “Old Guard”. I’m not against where the new features are, but I do want to be able to play the old way as well. IMO, H4 needed CE:Anni more than Reach did, because of the obligation classic playlists that shipped with it.

OP, first off… huge thanks for not being a total bigot about it. I can tell your post is made out of concern and care for the game and the series. I respect that to no end.

I haven’t played many Halo game outside of Reach. I come from a background of competitive Battlefield clans and casual PC gaming. I thoroughly enjoy Halo 4, it’s so refreshing and I like the way 343i works compared to some of the other developers I’ve encountered through all the games I’ve played.

Some comments I have in regards to your post and this thread:

  • Power weapons and spawns. It’s been frustrating me that in some game modes, people get ordinance drops like nobody’s business, get lucky and come out with rocket launchers and the like. I typically just get grenades, overshield, sometimes a rail gun or a SAW. I wish there was a way for me to get more of an upperhand based on weapons on the map, but the power weapon spawns at the start usually don’t respawn. I like that there’s a bit more of a focus on your starting loadout and your gunplay, but when someone else gets an incineration cannon and you’re a good shot with a DMR, that doesn’t really mean you’re going to stand a chance. In games like Big team slayer, teams get the Mantis mech, Banshees, Ghosts, warthogs, etc. and there’s one rocket spawn. No ordinance. Sometimes teams take the enemy’s vehicles, making the game imbalanced. But there’s little heavy weapons to really take them out or get them back.

  • Other game modes. That said, a lot of people seem to be complaining (outside of this thread. Here all posters have really respectful comments, super appreciative of that) that they can’t win firefights or they just get owned in a few shots. I think Halo 4 may not be like the old Halo games, of course, for that very matter. People are playing Halo 4 like it’s Halo 3? or Halo 2? But it’s not… it’s Halo 4. 343i, as the developers are allowed to tinker with the game and how people play it. There are some kinks to be worked out, but for the most part I enjoy seeing 343 push Halo in a new direction, while still maintaining the Halo universe and the Halo feel. There is no magical tablet from the gods saying Halo needs to remain in it’s own little bubble of characteristics. Halo was HUGE in it’s prime, and now other games have swept the market. From a developer standpoint, they want the game to be as successful as possible but still fun to play. And that’s what they’re doing. They’re adding new mechanics to bring a breath of fresh air to the game that also appeals to other players outside of the hardcore fans. In the future, I’m almost certain that they will bring content to Halo 4 to please the folks who have been with the franchise since the old days, but at the same time this is how they feed their families and make a living. If they can do something that means higher pay and new game mechanics, why not do it? The game isn’t a complete burning wreck of crap. It’s just different from what people expected.

  • We need more threads like this. 343 aren’t going to pay attention to some drunk guy raging, but they will read organized, calm, and intellectual posts and threads that bring good ideas to the table. They want this game to be just as good as we do. Let’s keep brainstorming.

> OP, first off… huge thanks for not being a total bigot about it. I can tell your post is made out of concern and care for the game and the series. I respect that to no end.
>
> I haven’t played many Halo game outside of Reach. I come from a background of competitive Battlefield clans and casual PC gaming. I thoroughly enjoy Halo 4, it’s so refreshing and I like the way 343i works compared to some of the other developers I’ve encountered through all the games I’ve played.
>
> Some comments I have in regards to your post and this thread:
> - Power weapons and spawns. It’s been frustrating me that in some game modes, people get ordinance drops like nobody’s business, get lucky and come out with rocket launchers and the like. I typically just get grenades, overshield, sometimes a rail gun or a SAW. I wish there was a way for me to get more of an upperhand based on weapons on the map, but the power weapon spawns at the start usually don’t respawn. I like that there’s a bit more of a focus on your starting loadout and your gunplay, but when someone else gets an incineration cannon and you’re a good shot with a DMR, that doesn’t really mean you’re going to stand a chance. In games like Big team slayer, teams get the Mantis mech, Banshees, Ghosts, warthogs, etc. and there’s one rocket spawn. No ordinance. Sometimes teams take the enemy’s vehicles, making the game imbalanced. But there’s little heavy weapons to really take them out or get them back.
>
> - Other game modes. That said, a lot of people seem to be complaining (outside of this thread. Here all posters have really respectful comments, super appreciative of that) that they can’t win firefights or they just get owned in a few shots. I think Halo 4 may not be like the old Halo games, of course, for that very matter. People are playing Halo 4 like it’s Halo 3? or Halo 2? But it’s not… it’s Halo 4. 343i, as the developers are allowed to tinker with the game and how people play it. There are some kinks to be worked out, but for the most part I enjoy seeing 343 push Halo in a new direction, while still maintaining the Halo universe and the Halo feel. There is no magical tablet from the gods saying Halo needs to remain in it’s own little bubble of characteristics. Halo was HUGE in it’s prime, and now other games have swept the market. From a developer standpoint, they want the game to be as successful as possible but still fun to play. And that’s what they’re doing. They’re adding new mechanics to bring a breath of fresh air to the game that also appeals to other players outside of the hardcore fans. In the future, I’m almost certain that they will bring content to Halo 4 to please the folks who have been with the franchise since the old days, but at the same time this is how they feed their families and make a living. If they can do something that means higher pay and new game mechanics, why not do it? The game isn’t a complete burning wreck of crap. It’s just different from what people expected.
>
> - <mark>We need more threads like this. 343 aren’t going to pay attention to some drunk guy raging, but they will read organized, calm, and intellectual posts and threads that bring good ideas to the table.</mark> They want this game to be just as good as we do. Let’s keep brainstorming.

I agree with this, but since the topic has been brought up a lot, it looks like no one bothers to actually support valid arguments about some of the additional playlists needed. It’s the posts that put down the game that receive responses.

very well said, please let there be classic playlists 343 ! don’t mug off the core of the halo community

I find it a little strange I see frankie and david ellis posting and responding to direct questions on other forums but not in their own halo 4 forum. Maybe i’ve missed them here?

I’d really like to know why it seems 343 will only give us what we ask for using unnecessary compromises. Like “So you competitive types want classic playlist? ok here’s Slayer Pro but we get to put in random weapon spawns.”

I feel like most of this will be dealt with when they roll out the next Title Update/ Competitive Ranks update.

The game has only been out a week and patches take time and testing. They can’t just rush out something. Give them time to alter hoppers/update maps/etc.

> I feel like most of this will be dealt with when they roll out the next Title Update/ Competitive Ranks update.
>
> The game has only been out a week and patches take time and testing. They can’t just rush out something. Give them time to alter hoppers/update maps/etc.

The sooner we can provide them with constructive feedback such as this the better.

> I agree with almost everything you said with the exception of sprint. It absolutely needs to be removed from any classic playlist./quote]
>
> This sums up my views.
>
> OP, thanks for the well-written post.