Was that really necessary?
You do realise this just enhances the stereotype of an ego driven bully who thinks average players should enjoy the privilege of being stomped by you.
You are literally drawing your own caricature
Do your “friends” realise the contempt you hold for them as Halo players?
Its not even about that. We literally never get a person on the other team that is -10 like Trashman. Let alone multiple games. If MMR is so good and accurate, it should be able to piece together a similar team, no?
And before you have said his MMR is probably too high… my question to you is, how? How in the world would his mmr be too high with the stat lines youve routinely posted
Maybe it was Ken that told me not to play worse people. But the question still is, how am I suppose to know who has a similar MMR regardless of CSR because clearly it often doesnt match.
Match-making can only match vs MMRs on paper.
It can’t predict how that team is going to gel together.
And, to be brutally honest, the more I glance over your games the more I’m convinced the problem is the way T-man is playing.
His MMR is probably fair for his skill level. He has nearly 250 games under his belt in S2 alone. He is P5 with a win rate of 49% and a K/D of 1. You would think the system has him pretty much nailed.
But in your team he goes minus double figure KDA pretty much every game. And you can’t cover that. You are going to lose way more than you win.
Whatever he is doing in his solo games vs mid-Platinums is not working in your squad against higher ranked teams.
What is he doing that is so different? Why is he dying so much? Is he trying to be the alpha Slayer still? Is he trying too hard to match your level? He needs to adopt a support role. Help you guys with assists. Provide covering fire. Hold the Oddball while you guys get to work.
The lower ranked opponents aren’t dying as much.
If you can get T-man to break even you will do way better.
It sucks. But you have to do it. I have to play very differently if I’m playing with my Sons. They will attract high Diamond and Onyx opponents and I can’t compete one on one at that level. It’s very much a case of pass me the Oddball.
Just in your very last game (congrats on the win). Your opponents had a Gold 6 who went 22 and 25. T-man went 15 and 33.
You don’t seem to understand. The issue with SBMM is that the system is lazy. You keep trying to dismantle my points by saying the teams should be more even but that’s inherently NOT what 343 wants. They consciously made their SBMM so that they’d have a heavily skewed skill level among teammates in social.
That. Is. Not. Okay.
My team shouldn’t ever have ANY matches where I’m depended on to win. It should be a team effort. I’m sure you know what that means considering you preach even games. The issue, is that the SBMM in Halo Infinite CONSISTENTLY matches teammates that have vastly different skill levels.
This meaning, the odds of me playing against the same high level player are more likely than me playing with a lower skilled player because every game is shoehorning in a higher level player to balance the lower skilled players as if it were some mathematical average.
I should never be able to get a 20-5 game unless the other team is entirely worse than me and somewhat better than the rest of my team. Does this make sense to you? This is the issue.
SBMM is putting me in the carry bracket for social and that isn’t okay. It’s simply a worse version of ranked.
When did I say I was contemptuous of them? I literally just said that the SBMM forces them to get stomped on by my skill bracket in social. That shouldn’t be thing. The second we get stomped that hard (and yes, I’m still vastly positive in these instances), we go over to different games that have common sense SBMM.
I also never said I wanted to stomp on randoms for free. That’s never been my argument and has in fact been you people’s method of shutting down my argument. It’s kinda pathetic if you ask me.
The reason I brought up his, and my, skill level was to prove that my experience is NOT the same as his and that he really can’t understand what it’s like for me to queue in social.
Here i completely agree with you.
This is a result of a weak SBMM that mostly only looks at the balance between teams (it often doesn’t do a good job at that either though…) and not realy within teams.
I agree with you it should also balance the individual skills more. Ofcourse a little difference is okay, but it is to much now. Ofcourse on times when the population is very low it makes sense to lower that individual balance (but remain the team balance), because otherwise you wouldn’t find matches. But when there are enough players, the gap between individual players should be lessened. I think we agree here.
Ofcourse you will always have the occasional match with big individual skill differences, even within peak hours, because of pre-made teams with those gaps, but that would just be a minority of the matches and not the fast majority of matches as you see today.
So i think we agree here.
It’s not weak SBMM.
That’s where I believe you’re wrong. The SBMM simply boils down to just sucking, but being very efficient at what it’s designed to be.
It’s intentionally designed in the way I described for reasons that are unclear to me.
It is good that MMR is now visible, but at the same time I am shocked that this MMR thing is not working at all.
It is one thing to have some variation in the ranks of the same team, but if that is the case, the ranks of the opposing teams should also be at the same level.
I think it would be better to increase or decrease the CSR based on the score, and make it tougher the higher the rank.
343 explained that the MMR makes it easier to get a 50% win rate, but I question this as well. What we want is fair matching, not equilibrium of winning percentage, and a ranking system that does not increase the highest rank to the extreme.
@Super87Ghost you keep saying over and over that the sbmm is weak but explain this. My friend still plays to complete challenges, from EU. In the afternoon, he can play every match on Eu servers just fine. After 9PM, roughly 25-30% of matches are played on foreign servers with 100-120ms ping.
of course there is no reason for the matchmaker to constantly put you on foreign server other than to “balance” the match. And what a balance, the yoink MMR doesn’t even keep track of whether the match is played on a low ping or high ping server. It doesn’t try at all to balance the teams based on the ping, which can result in completely unbalanced matches, the opposite it’s trying to do
So how can the sbmm be weak if the matchmaking is literally forcing you to play against some people on the other side of an OCEAN in order to balance the match??
I am from the EU and play a lot between 9pm and 11pm and almost all my matches are on EU-servers.
But it also depends on the playlists, if he plays very impopular playlists, there might not be enough available players, even at those times.
The reason i say SBMM is not that strong is because there are big skill differences between individual players and because the teams are often not balanced. Steaktaculars are not that rare anymore (they were much more rare in MCC) and by far the most slayer matches end with 10+ kills difference. And significant amount of objective matches are 3-0, 2-0 or with strongholds with more then 50 points difference. That is not realy strict balancing in my opinion.
As an example of the huge skill gaps between individual players, this team slayer match of mine on may 31st:
My team:
I mean, a difference from gold-2 to onyx is not realy strict isn’t it? This might have been the biggest i know so far (most of the time i am not even looking, but in match you can already see clear differences in skill. The reason i watches this time was because that onyx player had the S2 Onyx emblem equipped).
And no, this wasn’t because that onyx was partnered with that gold-5, because i was that gold-5 and was searching solo.
I do have to say that this onyx player did know how to play ‘relaxed’, since he only went even 12-12 and i (the gold-5) had to carry my team to victory (i went 12-5 and my team won 50-46)
Then we can conclude that the population is really low. He doesn’t play impopular playlists, he usually plays quickplay, team slayer and some challenge specific playlists like land grab, ffa etc.
Your ranks explains why you find almost all games on EU servers: at Gold there are many people at your level, because Gold/platinum players are in the middle of the curve. My friends doesn’t play ranked but i played with him on halo 5 and we were both “average” onyx players.
So that explains everything, at high rank the matchmaking somehow thinks it’s a good idea to match you with people around the world, not caring at all that someone “earned” the onyx rank playing 99% of his matches on a low ping (when your MMR is still at platinum/diamond there are still barely enough players to play on EU servers most of the time)
This creates a really bad experience because you may win some games on EU servers and you MMR goes up. Then suddendly you are forced to play at a disadvantage against people who are theoretically at your skill level but the low ping gives them a big advantage
it saddens me to say that halo is the only game that thinks this is a good idea, pushing good players away from the game. Other games have enough people to play on EU servers at almost every skill level, unless you are some kind of world champion maybe
That’s not necessarily that straight forward.
For a start, you reduce your match making pool. Increased wait times.
And secondly - the squad chose their rank spread. They don’t care that it’s not a great play experience for the lower ranked members. So it would be unfair to force a bunch of randoms to experience the same thing.
Now, one team chose that for their team - but it would be unfair to expect some random to fill the same role in another team.
I think they have looked at such things - but it’s just as quick to use the W/L. And it significantly decreases the data footprint of your system.
The thing is one leads to the other. If the ranking system is getting it right. Then your performance naturally settles into a 50% W/L.
Tricky. The system is naturally open ended. But I also feels this increases “grinding” and toxic play. The MMR can still be open ended… they just need to cap the CSR (give it a different scale altogether).
We already know this is bogus.
Also, why does the team MMR fluctuate so much each match. When i play the team MMR can be 1150 and the next game its like 1500. Thats significant. Almost like its a nonsensical system.
Opinion is divided on the matter. The people who designed the system (and similar systems for other sports) say one thing. A small bunch of disgruntled players complaining on the internet say another.
Are you really going to ask that?
Apart from natural variation in match making - it’s often squads.
And you are literally the person who causes this stuff. You regularly play with players 200 to 300 points lower than you in ranked.
And as long as the average MMR’s match… and the outcome is predictable. Then the system is working.
How do you know that? I have no idea what my individual mmr is let alone anyone else’s.
Even when i play with people of similar CSR it does that.
You didn’t answer it though. Hundreds of points in fluctuation doesnt seem like the system is working. Thay means its finding either people way higher or lower on a routine basis. Shouldnt it be pretty similar every time?
Really?
After enough games your MMR and CSR will be close enough to be the same.
We know your CSR is 1455. Your buddies are 1247 and 1137.
You can at least accept that your MMR’s will be different by roughly the same gap?
So, when you get matched with other squads and random players it’s very easy to see how and why you get a bit of variation in average team MMRs.
But this system is suppose to create even matches. If its fluctuating by hundreds every few games that doesnt seem like the pairing is consistent. Also how does it fluctuate so much with a group of 3? That would mean our MMR is drastically moving per game or one game we get the equivalent of 1700 Onyx random and another like Platinum 3. That doesnt sound like the system is working nor consistent. But i know youll defend it to the death.
The sole reason mmr exists is to drive good and average players towards better games so the low tiers can enjoy being put in hacker/streamer lobbies, while spending large amounts of money.
The important question is how do the average team MMRs compare?
If the average MMRs are close… and the results fit the predictions (ideally 50:50)… then the system is doing it’s job.
If you add another 1455 to your trio your average is 1324. If you add another 1137 it drops to 1244. And you can imagine bigger swings with players outside your range.
And, I guess, one of your players could still be swinging a bit. From memory they had only just finished placement.
Plus… as a squad… you are going to preferentially be matched vs other squads. And they could have an even wider range of MMRs.
I don’t think I have to put my life on the line to defend it here.
But it’s not doing that. The last weeks almost all matches have been one-sided. Not just for me, but my friends have the exact same experience.
It’s already gotten to that when i have finished my weekly challenges, i refuse to play PvP anymore, since there is simply 0 fun with all that one-sided BS. I do my daily 6 matches (for the BP) on Bot Bootcamp and then stop playing for the day.