I have to say that after playing and beating all the halo games so far, the one thing I always hate is playing the match made games. Why? As a busy father of two beautiful girls, a husband, and someone who decided one degree is not enough in today’s business world. I like to sit down once or twice a week and just relax playing a video game like halo for fun. And every time I make the mistake of playing match making, I always seem to be teamed against those who are beyond my skill level. Is it a challenge? No, I have no fun or challenge when I am dying five times for every kill I make. A challenge is placing me against those who i can learn from. I don’t think that i should win every game, but it would be nice to win once a month. I can play firefight and keep my deaths down around one or two per game, and I can beat the game on legendary, but I still get stuck playing with people who have that new account who get 20+ kills and they are a private. Okay, to get done with my ranting and raving, my question is this, Why can’t 343 industries get a matching system that seperates those who are the ‘Casual’ gamer such as myself who just wants to enjoy the game with others who have a similar mindset versus those who either have to restart their account because of whatever reason, those who who can only find joy in beating those who are less skilled, or those who get put into matches with people like myself who do not have the skills to compete? I was looking at the new achievements for Halo 4 and realized that once again, most of the achievements favor those who live, breathe, and die the game, and not for those like myself who just want to enjoy it during the one or two hours a week that I might have time to play.
Matt
Right with you there. But, it ain’t gonna happen for Reach. This is one of the things Halo 4 has to perfect otherwise it’s gonna be garbage. I hate getting matched with people who aren’t that experienced or skilled. It’s just so boring and easy.
He’s saying the opposite… If you need an ego check play arena guerilla, you’ll find much harder competition
[deleted]
Apparently ranking systems are only for the benefit of cheaters or people who want to talk down to others…so for now it looks like you’re stuck having to play unfair matches.
It’s funny how in this “everyone’s a winner” feel-goodery of a game nobody really wins. Good players don’t get anything to work for, and average to below average players get stuck playing against people they have no business playing against.
> Apparently ranking systems are only for the benefit of cheaters or people who want to talk down to others…so for now it looks like you’re stuck having to play unfair matches.
>
> It’s funny how in this “everyone’s a winner” feel-goodery of a game nobody really wins. Good players don’t get anything to work for, and average to below average players get stuck playing against people they have no business playing against.
Exactly this. People complained about ranked matchmaking for the exact reasons Bito just described. While those of us who actually played Ranked matchmaking stuck through it. Yes there were cheaters and yes there were days ranked was annoying but overall it is far better than having a lax system that makes it ultra boring.
I have no sympathy here really. Now we have this casual ranking system and well, it’s payback and revenge in my books. I’ve been destroying and will continue to destroy my enemies with no regulation in halo 4 if there is no good matching system for skill.
You picked your poison so to speak, now drink up =)
Pretty much what Bito said. Hope 4 has a ranking system which only you can see. Could avoid griefers and still have something to strive for that way.
Agreed. Ranked and Social lists need to be forged once again. Not necessarily the true skill Halo 3 had, but something along the lines of it. Don’t get me wrong Reach is fun, but that matchmaking system pretty much condemns casuals to deaths of untold magnitudes. (Bit of exaggeration)
If you don’t mind a longer search, then you could turn on the skill search preference. Make sure you’re in a playlist with a good population though like TS.
Reach does a terrible job of matching you with similarly skilled players, even with the skill search preference on.
Just don’t worry about it. Maybe Halo 4’s matching system will be better.
I find reach does an acceptable job of skill matching now provided a) you indicate that skill matching is important to you by setting the option (bungie made a mistake by not making this setting permanent) and b) youre in a list with at least 1500-2000 population (which rules out most of Evolved). Which is why its unfortunate that Reach was mismanaged from day 1 by creating a separate list for every silly little preference the community screamed for and spreading the population thinner than buttered toast at a church fundraising fete. When you think about it trueskill never really had a chance under these conditions, but we know it can work because it worked better in halo 3, its the same system. But it can only work with the statistical sample its given. I have noticed a definite increase is game quality since the august update. The playlist count always should have been kept as low as possible because of this. It should be kept down in halo 4.
Another thing which has a big effect is party matching which ideally should be enabled across the board, and playlists managed in a way to support this pop wise. And another which the system does NOT take account of at all at the moment is the fact that NO ONE uses the mic anymore, except in a party they already know. Because theres only a handful of times you can put up with being called a paedophile before you have zero desire to plug mic in ever again. So micless randoms should never be matched up with enemies with mics because it will probably be a salughter. That is something that MS itself should look at incorporating, or at least should be taken account of in halo 4.
> Apparently ranking systems are only for the benefit of cheaters or people who want to talk down to others…so for now it looks like you’re stuck having to play unfair matches.
>
> It’s funny how in this “everyone’s a winner” feel-goodery of a game nobody really wins. Good players don’t get anything to work for, and average to below average players get stuck playing against people they have no business playing against.
So true
If the highly skilled players can’t play RANKED playlists they will just play the casual playlists and destroy lower skilled kids
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> > Apparently ranking systems are only for the benefit of cheaters or people who want to talk down to others…so for now it looks like you’re stuck having to play unfair matches.
> >
> > It’s funny how in this “everyone’s a winner” feel-goodery of a game nobody really wins. Good players don’t get anything to work for, and average to below average players get stuck playing against people they have no business playing against.
>
> So true
> If the highly skilled players can’t play RANKED playlists they will just play the casual playlists and destroy lower skilled kids
Dudebro youre so pro bro.
I wish i was as pro as you, bro.
> I find reach does an acceptable job of skill matching now provided a) you indicate that skill matching is important to you by setting the option (bungie made a mistake by not making this setting permanent) and b) youre in a list with at least 1500-2000 population (which rules out most of Evolved). Which is why its unfortunate that Reach was mismanaged from day 1 by creating a separate list for every silly little preference the community screamed for and spreading the population thinner than buttered toast at a church fundraising fete. When you think about it trueskill never really had a chance under these conditions, but we know it can work because it worked better in halo 3, its the same system. But it can only work with the statistical sample its given.
Of course it’s easier for someone of your skill to draw more consistently “even” matches, but its not the case the further a player (good or bad) gets away from “average.” If you’re in the middle of the pack it makes sense that you’d an even number of games where you’re far better than, equal to, or far worse than your opponent - but it doesn’t work that way for everyone. I can search with skill priority and even set my psych profile to the tryhardiest of settings and still only draw an even match less than 10% of the time. Don’t let your placement on the bell curve fool you into thinking that trueskill matching actually works in Reach just by turning on skill searching.
> > I find reach does an acceptable job of skill matching now provided a) you indicate that skill matching is important to you by setting the option (bungie made a mistake by not making this setting permanent) and b) youre in a list with at least 1500-2000 population (which rules out most of Evolved). Which is why its unfortunate that Reach was mismanaged from day 1 by creating a separate list for every silly little preference the community screamed for and spreading the population thinner than buttered toast at a church fundraising fete. When you think about it trueskill never really had a chance under these conditions, but we know it can work because it worked better in halo 3, its the same system. But it can only work with the statistical sample its given.
>
> Of course it’s easier for someone of your skill to draw more consistently “even” matches, but its not the case the further a player (good or bad) gets away from “average.” If you’re in the middle of the pack it makes sense that you’d an even number of games where you’re far better than, equal to, or far worse than your opponent - but it doesn’t work that way for everyone. I can search with skill priority and even set my psych profile to the tryhardiest of settings and still only draw an even match less than 10% of the time. Don’t let your placement on the bell curve fool you into thinking that trueskill matching actually works in Reach just by turning on skill searching.
yeah it definitely doesn’t work in reach, it’s broke beyond all reason. Usually I get people on my team who have never played Halo before. It’s just bad.
Ha, how do you know what my skill is bito? I thought the WHOLE problem with this game is that no one ever knows what their damn skill level really is, right bito? Your insult is a subtle as an air raid, my friend.
If you actually knew anything about bell curves and such, youd know that thats the way its gotta be. Lets be charitable and assume that youre as pr0 as you think you are. What do you want the xbox to do? Magic up lots of players that dont exist from nowhere to witness your glorious gaming perfection? No, you have 2 options: wait a long time for good matching and hope some worthy opponents come along, or match players a bit out of your range. There are only so many people to choose from at the top and bottom. In high onyx arena, people can find themselves playing the same opponents over and over again, and thats how it should be. Can you think of a better way to skill match in the context of a bell curve distribution and a wildly varying statistical pool? Are you smarter than the Cambridge maths graduates MS employed to make this system? You seem to think so. Do tell. Ive given my constructive criticism of this system, wheres yours?
But Im going to come back to reality here and say that youre probably not nearly as good at this game as you think you are, no where near the top, youre just stuck playing in evolved/MLG all the time where everything except BTB and rumble pit have 3 figure populations and thus a terrible statistical sample, so youre not seeing the benefits of consolidation on skill matching. Which is what ive already said as an argument for why halo 4 needs to keep the playlist count down. And even BTB doesnt seem to count anymore since Heavies, because all people do is -Yoink- around in it now.
There is probably no statistically better way of matching peoples on abilities than the way XBL already does it. It just needs a good enough player pool to work properly. At even 2000 players/50 trueskill levels, thats only an average of 40 other players of your level to choose from. And then you have to exclude the laggers and people half a world away. And thats not even accounting for the bell curve. Each list really should have a good few multiple thousands of people searching for trueskill to even work.
343i better keep this in mind with halo 4, when the inevitable whining and lobbying for every stupid niche playlist under the sun to be put in the game starts up. Which it WILL.
> Ha, how do you know what my skill is bito? I thought the WHOLE problem with this game is that no one ever knows what their damn skill level really is, right bito? Your insult is a subtle as an air raid, my friend.
Well, it’s not hard to get a rough estimate of someone skill based on the available data - especially seeing as the absence of a quality matchmaking system puts everyone on a statistically leveled playing field where everyone is essentially playing against the same competition, and therefore the numbers more accurately show how you relate to the rest of the population. That is perhaps the only benefit of the absence of trueskill: if everyone has to play against the same people all the time instead of people their own skill then good stats show that you are consistently better than the rest of the populations while bad stats show that you are consistently worse - I’d still trade that for even matches any day, but for someone who spends as much time dealing with numbers as I do it makes interpreting the data a lot easier.
I’ve also had the pleasure (though it was no pleasure) of playing a game with you. I doubt you recognized me at the time as I was playing on an alt, but let’s just say your performance was less than stellar - I made a reference to this particular game in Punderfull’s “Convergence” thread in the General Discussion forum if you care to go take a look.
My original statement wasn’t meant to be an insult. I was merely trying to explain how you can’t use your own biased interpretation to draw conclusion because you are in the one place where it’s common to get a good amount of even matches. I’m sorry that implying you are an “average” player was insulting to you, but if I really wanted to insult you on your skill level it wouldn’t be subtle, my friend.
> If you actually knew anything about bell curves and such, youd know that thats the way its gotta be. Lets be charitable and assume that youre as pr0 as you think you are. What do you want the xbox to do? Magic up lots of players that dont exist from nowhere to witness your glorious gaming perfection? No, you have 2 options: wait a long time for good matching and hope some worthy opponents come along, or match players a bit out of your range. There are only so many people to choose from at the top and bottom. In high onyx arena, people can find themselves playing the same opponents over and over again, and thats how it should be. Can you think of a better way to skill match in the context of a bell curve distribution and a wildly varying statistical pool? Are you smarter than the Cambridge maths graduates MS employed to make this system? You seem to think so. Do tell. Ive given my constructive criticism of this system, wheres yours?
I spend my entire professional life working with nothing but numbers…I think I know a thing or two about elementary level statistics, thank you. You clearly misunderstood what I was saying with my reference to your place on the bell curve, and your own example said exactly what I was saying without you even realizing it. Yes, it would be take me a long time to find games at my skill level. Did I say I didn’t want to wait? No. I said it doesn’t work, and it doesn’t. I didn’t even say there was a better way - if you have ever paid attention to any argument I’ve ever made on this matter you’d know that my contention is that Trueskill in Reach is so lax that for all intensive purposes it’s non-existent. It doesn’t matter how it’s supposed to work; it matters that it doesn’t work period.
I cannot consistently find players at my skill level in matchmaking - and I’m not even that good. I’m above average, but not great. So just imagine how difficult it is for the large number of players are much better than I am. My <10% of even matches is a <1% even matches for a lot of them. Your placement among the “average” players in the bell curve allows you to have a false impression that Trueskill works on some level because whether it works or not (it doesn’t) you’re still going to face a mix of people below, around, and above your skill. Obviously the further away from the middle you are the harder this is.
> But Im going to come back to reality here and say that youre probably not nearly as good at this game as you think you are, no where near the top, youre just stuck playing in evolved/MLG all the time where everything except BTB and rumble pit have 3 figure populations and thus a terrible statistical sample, so youre not seeing the benefits of consolidation on skill matching. Which is what ive already said as an argument for why halo 4 needs to keep the playlist count down. And even BTB doesnt seem to count anymore since Heavies, because all people do is -Yoink!- around in it now.
I never have, nor will I ever claim to be some kind of god at this game. Yes, I’m better than a lot of players, but I’m a lot worse than a lot of players. I’d rank myself somewhere around 6.5/10. I’ve had the pleasure of playing against a lot of the best players who play this game, and they make me look like I’ve never picked up a controller. I don’t pretend to be better than I am, but assuming I’m better than most people on this forum isn’t a stretch by any means considering most people here care more about AFK players in Firefight putting them at a disadvantage against the incredibly easy AI more than they care about getting better against actual people…
Just for record - my 2nd most played playlist is still Team Slayer. I’ve never consistently gotten even matches in there whether searching with a team or searching solo - though I guess you could claim the random factor of bloom can create an artificially evened playing field, it’s still not the same. Oddly enough, I get the most consistently even matches in Super Slayer, which has a population that is about 10% of Team Slayer, but that has more to do with a concentration of higher quality players more so than it has to do with proper matchmaking.
> There is probably no statistically better way of matching peoples on abilities than the way XBL already does it. It just needs a good enough player pool to work properly. At even 2000 players/50 trueskill levels, thats only an average of 40 other players of your level to choose from. And then you have to exclude the laggers and people half a world away. And thats not even accounting for the bell curve. Each list really should have a good few multiple thousands of people searching for trueskill to even work.
So the population of Reach is the problem? I thought you were part of the defense league that constantly claims Reach’s population number are far superior to Halo 3’s? Yet you’ll openly admit that Halo 3 had better Trueskill-based matchmaking than Reach, and promptly turn around and say Reach can’t duplicate because of its’ population? You can’t have it both ways.
> 343i better keep this in mind with halo 4, when the inevitable whining and lobbying for every stupid niche playlist under the sun to be put in the game starts up. Which it WILL.
This I actually agree with, but probably not for the same reasons. I’m sure our interpretations of what is or isn’t a “niche” gametype are different. For example, I think that gametypes like SWAT, Snipers, Living Dead, and Grifball should be weekend playlists.
Hey guys calm your tata’s down. You flaming each other over skill is not going to get us a system. Formality and politeness will. 
Play customs maybe??? Because I doubt its going to go to a ranking system any time soon.
I feel your pain… I lost like 3 games in a row, then got put against like monster good people…
Lag doesn’t help either… bobble head spartansss.