Ranking System- Why not have both?

I think the online multiyplayer should be split into two different playlist:
Competitive and Casual.

Both sections will both have the exact same game modes!
Competitive will be based on some sort of ranking system, for now, let’s say Halo 3’s 1-50 ranking system. (I know it’s already been announced that Halo 3s ranking system WON’T be returning.) But this way, rank isn’t determined by the amount of time you play but on how well you do each game.

Casual will be like Reach’s multiplayer, were rank is achieved through experience and time played. Easy enough.

Both sections will have different ranks!

This was just my idea … personally, I hate knowing that my rank is dependent on the amount of time played on Reach. I’ll be honest, when I play reach, I get set up against colonels and generals, and I will usually beat them … bad. It’s not a ranking system I prefer, but I know some do, so why not have both?

All playlists should use strict trueskill. If skill rating and progression rank must be featured, they should, in no way what so ever, be linked like in Halo 3.

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Why is it that so many people think that separate ranked and social playlists is the solution to anything? I don’t understand. The only thing this would accomplish is further separation of the community, which isn’t needed.

People say that the social playlist would be for casual players who don’t care about rank. Who says these people will play in this playlist? What is forcing them to go here and not ranked? If they don’t care about rank, then they will still play ranked, just without focusing on the rank. If there were the exact same playlist in 2 playlist groups, then why would anybody go for the one that matches you unfairly?

There is no rule saying somebody is casual or competitive. There is no rule saying a “casual” player will play in social playlists. There’s certainly no rule saying a casual player doesn’t want to win. Everybody wants to win; its who we are. Even when somebody’s goal is to lose, they are still trying to win that goal. Its human nature, and its a fact that every person tries to find ways to show themselves as winners in some way, shape or form.

Th only reason having both social and ranked playlists worked in halo 3 at all is because most social playlist were very different from their competitive counterparts. Action sack was full of random unique gametypes which offered a unique experience of its own. Social slayer was a 5v5, played on a few custom map variants, allowed for up to 3 guests, and didn’t require the DLC that was needed for regular team slayer.Social skirmish allowed for you to play much more FFA gametypes than lone wolves, and also allowed for play with friends. Each of these playlists offered a slightly altered experience that made it less compatible with fast paced, competitive play.

i can understand a social playlist if its full of different gametypes(infection, griffball, action sack, etc), but Having the exact same gametypes would solve absolutely nothing.

> I think the online multiyplayer should be split into two different playlist:
> Competitive and Casual.
>
> Both sections will both have the exact same game modes!
> Competitive will be based on some sort of ranking system, for now, let’s say Halo 3’s 1-50 ranking system. (I know it’s already been announced that Halo 3s ranking system WON’T be returning.) But this way, rank isn’t determined by the amount of time you play but on how well you do each game.
>
> Casual will be like Reach’s multiplayer, were rank is achieved through experience and time played. Easy enough.
>
> Both sections will have different ranks!
>
>
> This was just my idea … personally, I hate knowing that my rank is dependent on the amount of time played on Reach. I’ll be honest, when I play reach, I get set up against colonels and generals, and I will usually beat them … bad. It’s not a ranking system I prefer, but I know some do, so why not have both?

The progression system (one that shows a military rank) does NOT represent skill at all. Even Bungie addressed that when they first had their beta back in May '10.

I still agree with the idea. Or at least the idea of an option to not pair up with parties with guests.

Ranking System?

> All playlists should use strict trueskill. If skill rating and progression rank must be featured, they should, in no way what so ever, be linked like in Halo 3.

No. Being linked is what made the community during H3 actually good. Instead we have competitive players absolutely annihilating terrible players 90% of the games they play because there isn’t a popular ranked section of playlists.

> Why is it that so many people think that separate ranked and social playlists is the solution to anything? I don’t understand. The only thing this would accomplish is further separation of the community, which isn’t needed.
>
> People say that the social playlist would be for casual players who don’t care about rank. Who says these people will play in this playlist? What is forcing them to go here and not ranked? If they don’t care about rank, then they will still play ranked, just without focusing on the rank. If there were the exact same playlist in 2 playlist groups, then why would anybody go for the one that matches you unfairly?
>
> There is no rule saying somebody is casual or competitive. There is no rule saying a “casual” player will play in social playlists. There’s certainly no rule saying a casual player doesn’t want to win. Everybody wants to win; its who we are. Even when somebody’s goal is to lose, they are still trying to win that goal. Its human nature, and its a fact that every person tries to find ways to show themselves as winners in some way, shape or form.
>
> Th only reason having both social and ranked playlists worked in halo 3 at all is because most social playlist were very different from their competitive counterparts. Action sack was full of random unique gametypes which offered a unique experience of its own. Social slayer was a 5v5, played on a few custom map variants, allowed for up to 3 guests, and didn’t require the DLC that was needed for regular team slayer.Social skirmish allowed for you to play much more FFA gametypes than lone wolves, and also allowed for play with friends. Each of these playlists offered a slightly altered experience that made it less compatible with fast paced, competitive play.
>
>
> i can understand a social playlist if its full of different gametypes(infection, griffball, action sack, etc), but Having the exact same gametypes would solve absolutely nothing.

Split it.

Social -Social slayer, invasion, social objective, BTB, infection, Rumble pit, Action Sack
Ranked -Team slayer, Lone wolves, MLG, Snipers, Swat, Team objective
Infinity -Infinity Slayer, Infinity Objective, Infinity BTB
Classic -Classic slayer & objective
Community -Forge features, Weekend Specials, Monthly Specials and Griffball

<mark>Why?</mark> Simple

-The community becomes easier to manage.
-All sides of the community are fairly represented and can contribute to their own playlists
-Less arguments between those who want casual Halo and competitive Halo.

Splitting the community isn’t such a bad thing if forcing them together causes problems

> > Why is it that so many people think that separate ranked and social playlists is the solution to anything? I don’t understand. The only thing this would accomplish is further separation of the community, which isn’t needed.
> >
> > People say that the social playlist would be for casual players who don’t care about rank. Who says these people will play in this playlist? What is forcing them to go here and not ranked? If they don’t care about rank, then they will still play ranked, just without focusing on the rank. If there were the exact same playlist in 2 playlist groups, then why would anybody go for the one that matches you unfairly?
> >
> > There is no rule saying somebody is casual or competitive. There is no rule saying a “casual” player will play in social playlists. There’s certainly no rule saying a casual player doesn’t want to win. Everybody wants to win; its who we are. Even when somebody’s goal is to lose, they are still trying to win that goal. Its human nature, and its a fact that every person tries to find ways to show themselves as winners in some way, shape or form.
> >
> > Th only reason having both social and ranked playlists worked in halo 3 at all is because most social playlist were very different from their competitive counterparts. Action sack was full of random unique gametypes which offered a unique experience of its own. Social slayer was a 5v5, played on a few custom map variants, allowed for up to 3 guests, and didn’t require the DLC that was needed for regular team slayer.Social skirmish allowed for you to play much more FFA gametypes than lone wolves, and also allowed for play with friends. Each of these playlists offered a slightly altered experience that made it less compatible with fast paced, competitive play.
> >
> >
> > i can understand a social playlist if its full of different gametypes(infection, griffball, action sack, etc), but Having the exact same gametypes would solve absolutely nothing.
>
> Split it.
>
> Social -Social slayer, invasion, social objective, BTB, infection, Rumble pit, Action Sack
> Ranked -Team slayer, Lone wolves, MLG, Snipers, Swat, Team objective
> Infinity -Infinity Slayer, Infinity Objective, Infinity BTB
> Classic -Classic slayer & objective
> Community -Forge features, Weekend Specials, Monthly Specials and Griffball
>
> <mark>Why?</mark> Simple
>
> -The community becomes easier to manage.
> -All sides of the community are fairly represented and can contribute to their own playlists
> -Less arguments between those who want casual Halo and competitive Halo.
>
> Splitting the community isn’t such a bad thing if forcing them together causes problems

See, now this isn’t such a bad Separation. It may have too many seperate playlists(a problem with reach) but if the population is maintained at a high number it wouldn’t be a problem.

And I wasn’t saying that splitting it was a bad thing, but the way the OP wanted it split would be utterly pointless.

> Both sections will both have the exact same game modes!
> Competitive will be based on some sort of ranking system, for now, let’s say Halo 3’s 1-50 ranking system. (I know it’s already been announced that Halo 3s ranking system WON’T be returning.) But this way, rank isn’t determined by the amount of time you play but on how well you do each game.

But has any such system actually worked in the past? It’s very easy to recall how we (generalizing) all hated (exaggerating) Halo Reach’s arena system but can you recall how well received Halo 3’s system is? For all the praise it’s getting now (rose colored glasses) it was a terrible system back in it’s day. On the one hand it was an excruciating crawl through obtuse trueskill values that gave you a rank-up or didn’t by the whim of an unknown god. On the other hand it fed the community a whole helping of -Yoink- through rank-boosters, second accounters, and just plain simple -Yoink–hatslooking for a little extra “replay value” out of what they took as a rather round-about MMO leveling scheme.

It was complete crap, which is why Bungie made such a point in Reach of splitting the system into arena ranks and global so that A. people would know what they did and why their rank was the way it was without trueskill and B. that people would take that system as an incentive program in and of itself (see MMO leveling) because that honey-roasted pile of -Yoink- was given over to a separate leveling system.

And it was still crap because it wasn’t just the implementation that was wrong, it was the basis of the whole -Yoinking!- endeavor. Under no circumstance can a simple rank be made to stand for how good of a player you are in a population of millions because in no way can you make the descriptive statistics you have here (kills, deaths, wins, ect.) predictive because for each and every one of those data points you haven’t controlled for the variables. (ex. players, map, gametype, spawning, movement, and the luck that goes into all of it.)

Thus winning against DoucheXxXSniper 1337 and company three to two in a game of CTF means nothing when compared with how well you’ll do against Titanic Fartz and his merry band of BTB enthusiasts because without controls you have no basis of comparison. You just have records which concern only those people you’ve played in those few matches you’ve played them in. Skill, as a direct result, is a terrible quality to try to measure. The probability that you’ll win against any given player in any given gametype cannot be taken by what you can observe in a video game unless you adhere to the strictest of protocols, and I doubt many people want to endure the Tournament From Hell just to have math tell them what they can figure out for themselves through direct observation.

So we should look at something else, such a personality (which is simply a measure of what you tend to do more frequently than other things, which you find out just by looking at one’s own history. IE. descriptive stats, IE. your in-game stats, IE. what we have.) so you can guess not how well a player will do but what they’ll do. That has real value to it, which is a long way coming from what we’ve had in any previous Halo game.

I’m morre worried with the fun factor. Anyway, diferent playlists for hardcore and normal players would be a cool implementation… They could add this in an expansion pack.

> > Why is it that so many people think that separate ranked and social playlists is the solution to anything? I don’t understand. The only thing this would accomplish is further separation of the community, which isn’t needed.
> >
> > People say that the social playlist would be for casual players who don’t care about rank. Who says these people will play in this playlist? What is forcing them to go here and not ranked? If they don’t care about rank, then they will still play ranked, just without focusing on the rank. If there were the exact same playlist in 2 playlist groups, then why would anybody go for the one that matches you unfairly?
> >
> > There is no rule saying somebody is casual or competitive. There is no rule saying a “casual” player will play in social playlists. There’s certainly no rule saying a casual player doesn’t want to win. Everybody wants to win; its who we are. Even when somebody’s goal is to lose, they are still trying to win that goal. Its human nature, and its a fact that every person tries to find ways to show themselves as winners in some way, shape or form.
> >
> > Th only reason having both social and ranked playlists worked in halo 3 at all is because most social playlist were very different from their competitive counterparts. Action sack was full of random unique gametypes which offered a unique experience of its own. Social slayer was a 5v5, played on a few custom map variants, allowed for up to 3 guests, and didn’t require the DLC that was needed for regular team slayer.Social skirmish allowed for you to play much more FFA gametypes than lone wolves, and also allowed for play with friends. Each of these playlists offered a slightly altered experience that made it less compatible with fast paced, competitive play.
> >
> >
> > i can understand a social playlist if its full of different gametypes(infection, griffball, action sack, etc), but Having the exact same gametypes would solve absolutely nothing.
>
> Split it.
>
> Social -Social slayer, invasion, social objective, BTB, infection, Rumble pit, Action Sack
> Ranked -Team slayer, Lone wolves, MLG, Snipers, Swat, Team objective
> Infinity -Infinity Slayer, Infinity Objective, Infinity BTB
> Classic -Classic slayer & objective
> Community -Forge features, Weekend Specials, Monthly Specials and Griffball
>
> <mark>Why?</mark> Simple
>
> -The community becomes easier to manage.
> -All sides of the community are fairly represented and can contribute to their own playlists
> -Less arguments between those who want casual Halo and competitive Halo.
>
> Splitting the community isn’t such a bad thing if forcing them together causes problems

That could work.

But I still don’t neccesarily like having to play “ranked” for my favorites like SWAT when I don’t care about rank.