So I was Diamond 4 in SWAT last season. With this new season I decided to get ranked and have some fun. First match I got placed against an onyx and only diamonds. I thought it was bad luck and thought nothing of it. Second game, same thing, and I got spawn-trapped at least six times. I’m level 120 and used to play halo competitive. I have no idea what’s happened to the ranking system but it hope it gets fixed.
Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
Onyx is the next tier above Diamond. Being matched against Onyx players is no surprise. Seems to always be a problem with the system when people go up against better competition…
Just finished playing and ranking in in doubles, me and my doubles partner played all 10 matches together, consistently switched off of who was top of the team and who wasn’t. Accuracy pretty decent each game and pretty even between the two of us and She ranks in Diamond 1 and I rank in Gold 1. How does that work? It’s been the same thing even in the past when another friend of mine and me would rank in doubles, playing all 10 matches together, at that time I carried him more than anything and for some reason he ranks in around Gold 3-4 and it ranks me in around Silver 3-4. It’s consistently ranking me in at least one whole rank lower than my doubles partner…Can I get an explanation as to EXACTLY how your ranking system works 343? Cause at the moment it really seems to be broken.
> 2535453674597524;4:
> Just finished playing and ranking in in doubles, me and my doubles partner played all 10 matches together, consistently switched off of who was top of the team and who wasn’t. Accuracy pretty decent each game and pretty even between the two of us and She ranks in Diamond 1 and I rank in Gold 1. How does that work? It’s been the same thing even in the past when another friend of mine and me would rank in doubles, playing all 10 matches together, at that time I carried him more than anything and for some reason he ranks in around Gold 3-4 and it ranks me in around Silver 3-4. It’s consistently ranking me in at least one whole rank lower than my doubles partner…Can I get an explanation as to EXACTLY how your ranking system works 343? Cause at the moment it really seems to be broken.
What’s the highest you’ve ever ranked in Doubles? And what’s the highest your teammate has ever been ranked in Doubles? From a quick look at your profiles, it seems you’ve never been higher than Gold, while your teammate has been a Diamond. So naturally, after placement matches, it’s far more likely that your teammate, who’d been a Diamond before, would retain or be close to that rank while you would be Gold. If you want that to change, you’ll work your way up the ranks.
> 2586218893181855;5:
> > 2535453674597524;4:
> > Just finished playing and ranking in in doubles, me and my doubles partner played all 10 matches together, consistently switched off of who was top of the team and who wasn’t. Accuracy pretty decent each game and pretty even between the two of us and She ranks in Diamond 1 and I rank in Gold 1. How does that work? It’s been the same thing even in the past when another friend of mine and me would rank in doubles, playing all 10 matches together, at that time I carried him more than anything and for some reason he ranks in around Gold 3-4 and it ranks me in around Silver 3-4. It’s consistently ranking me in at least one whole rank lower than my doubles partner…Can I get an explanation as to EXACTLY how your ranking system works 343? Cause at the moment it really seems to be broken.
>
> What’s the highest you’ve ever ranked in Doubles? And what’s the highest your teammate has ever been ranked in Doubles? From a quick look at your profiles, it seems you’ve never been higher than Gold, while your teammate has been a Diamond. So naturally, after placement matches, it’s far more likely that your teammate, who’d been a Diamond before, would retain or be close to that rank while you would be Gold. If you want that to change, you’ll work your way up the ranks.
But that doesn’t seem exactly fair now does it? Last season I wasn’t even RANKED in Swat and I was put up against 2 (not 3) onyx and 1 champion. proof: http://tinyurl.com/yb3zj7yk How does that work? How even REMOTELY are these teams on par with one another?
Or playing against someone who lost 8 matches and won 2 and is instantly ranked as Onyx?
Whereas I won 7 and lost 3 and was put as Plat 6?
Much less it’s not easy to work yourself up the ranks anymore for any that you rank below diamond or plat in. If I’m not mistaken I was gold last season for swat and at least once every 5 matches had an onyx or diamond that just had the entire map on lock. I couldn’t progress and no one wanted to get spawn-raped the entire match.
The game matching isn’t balanced nor does it match you to the set that you belong in without placing you against people that’re aimed at far higher without being ranked nearby to them.
But that’s ultimately my opinion at it.
> 2533274805919869;2:
> Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
> 2535453674597524;4:
> Just finished playing and ranking in in doubles, me and my doubles partner played all 10 matches together, consistently switched off of who was top of the team and who wasn’t. Accuracy pretty decent each game and pretty even between the two of us and She ranks in Diamond 1 and I rank in Gold 1. How does that work? It’s been the same thing even in the past when another friend of mine and me would rank in doubles, playing all 10 matches together, at that time I carried him more than anything and for some reason he ranks in around Gold 3-4 and it ranks me in around Silver 3-4. It’s consistently ranking me in at least one whole rank lower than my doubles partner…Can I get an explanation as to EXACTLY how your ranking system works 343? Cause at the moment it really seems to be broken.
Same thing happened with me in doubles with my friend except I carried his -Yoink- every game and i got Silver 3 while he ranked Plat 4
> 2533274821522072;7:
> > 2533274805919869;2:
> > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
>
> I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
Couple things:
- Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
> 2533274870318108;6:
> > 2586218893181855;5:
> > > 2535453674597524;4:
> > > Just finished playing and ranking in in doubles, me and my doubles partner played all 10 matches together, consistently switched off of who was top of the team and who wasn’t. Accuracy pretty decent each game and pretty even between the two of us and She ranks in Diamond 1 and I rank in Gold 1. How does that work? It’s been the same thing even in the past when another friend of mine and me would rank in doubles, playing all 10 matches together, at that time I carried him more than anything and for some reason he ranks in around Gold 3-4 and it ranks me in around Silver 3-4. It’s consistently ranking me in at least one whole rank lower than my doubles partner…Can I get an explanation as to EXACTLY how your ranking system works 343? Cause at the moment it really seems to be broken.
> >
> > What’s the highest you’ve ever ranked in Doubles? And what’s the highest your teammate has ever been ranked in Doubles? From a quick look at your profiles, it seems you’ve never been higher than Gold, while your teammate has been a Diamond. So naturally, after placement matches, it’s far more likely that your teammate, who’d been a Diamond before, would retain or be close to that rank while you would be Gold. If you want that to change, you’ll work your way up the ranks.
>
> But that doesn’t seem exactly fair now does it? Last season I wasn’t even RANKED in Swat and I was put up against 2 (not 3) onyx and 1 champion. proof: http://tinyurl.com/yb3zj7yk How does that work? How even REMOTELY are these teams on par with one another?
>
> Or playing against someone who lost 8 matches and won 2 and is instantly ranked as Onyx?
> Whereas I won 7 and lost 3 and was put as Plat 6?
>
> Much less it’s not easy to work yourself up the ranks anymore for any that you rank below diamond or plat in. If I’m not mistaken I was gold last season for swat and at least once every 5 matches had an onyx or diamond that just had the entire map on lock. I couldn’t progress and no one wanted to get spawn-raped the entire match.
>
> The game matching isn’t balanced nor does it match you to the set that you belong in without placing you against people that’re aimed at far higher without being ranked nearby to them.
>
> But that’s ultimately my opinion at it.
SWAT playlist is loosely matched along with FFA, so expect bigger gaps.
As far as you getting ranked Platinum 6 and your opponent Onyx with less wins, it has been mentioned on this thread and many times before: look at your older placements and look at your opponent’s.
> 2533274817408735;9:
> > 2533274821522072;7:
> > > 2533274805919869;2:
> > > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
> >
> > I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
>
> Couple things:
> - Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
So you are screwed if you do bad in your 10 placement matches and place lower since you will be matched against higher ranks? Then whats the point of CSR is it just a trophy?
> 2533274805919869;11:
> > 2533274817408735;9:
> > > 2533274821522072;7:
> > > > 2533274805919869;2:
> > > > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
> > >
> > > I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
> >
> > Couple things:
> > - Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
>
> So you are screwed if you do bad in your 10 placement matches and place lower since you will be matched against higher ranks? Then whats the point of CSR is it just a trophy?
You know, I’m not really sure about why CSR and MMR are different things. That would be something to ask Josh Menke in the weekly matchmaking feedback threads. All I know is that personal performance helps determine MMR, not just victory/defeat like CSR. From what I understand, CSR is really just for bragging rights and public display, not actually a determination of skill.
Now, just because your CSR drops doesn’t mean your MMR will drop. If you lose a bunch of matches but your personal performance was really good, the defeats will lower your CSR but your MMR might not drop so much, especially if you were matched against people whose skill rating was above yours.
> 2533274817408735;12:
> > 2533274805919869;11:
> > > 2533274817408735;9:
> > > > 2533274821522072;7:
> > > > > 2533274805919869;2:
> > > > > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
> > > >
> > > > I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
> > >
> > > Couple things:
> > > - Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
> >
> > So you are screwed if you do bad in your 10 placement matches and place lower since you will be matched against higher ranks? Then whats the point of CSR is it just a trophy?
>
> You know, I’m not really sure about why CSR and MMR are different things. That would be something to ask Josh Menke in the weekly matchmaking feedback threads. All I know is that personal performance helps determine MMR, not just victory/defeat like CSR. From what I understand, CSR is really just for bragging rights and public display, not actually a determination of skill.
>
> Now, just because your CSR drops doesn’t mean your MMR will drop. If you lose a bunch of matches but your personal performance was really good, the defeats will lower your CSR but your MMR might not drop so much, especially if you were matched against people whose skill rating was above yours.
Your info incorrect, or at the very least misleading, per Josh Menke’s posts.
- MMR is just basically a more flexible, faster adapting version of CSR. If you play a lot of games during a season, your CSR will converge to your MMR once you’ve proved you “deserve it”. CSR is absolutely a measure of skill, and if you’ve played a lot of games that season, it’s quite accurate and a good predictor of match outcomes (just like MMR) - MMR does not currently rely on performance, only W/L. (except for the very first games you play, ever). This MAY change at some point in the future, but right now it’s only W/L and opponent skill that matter. If you lose matches you will lose both CSR and MMR (if there were a lot of quitters, the MMR adjustment might be softened, that’s possible).
> 2533274906308237;13:
> > 2533274817408735;12:
> > > 2533274805919869;11:
> > > > 2533274817408735;9:
> > > > > 2533274821522072;7:
> > > > > > 2533274805919869;2:
> > > > > > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
> > > > >
> > > > > I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
> > > >
> > > > Couple things:
> > > > - Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
> > >
> > > So you are screwed if you do bad in your 10 placement matches and place lower since you will be matched against higher ranks? Then whats the point of CSR is it just a trophy?
> >
> > You know, I’m not really sure about why CSR and MMR are different things. That would be something to ask Josh Menke in the weekly matchmaking feedback threads. All I know is that personal performance helps determine MMR, not just victory/defeat like CSR. From what I understand, CSR is really just for bragging rights and public display, not actually a determination of skill.
> >
> > Now, just because your CSR drops doesn’t mean your MMR will drop. If you lose a bunch of matches but your personal performance was really good, the defeats will lower your CSR but your MMR might not drop so much, especially if you were matched against people whose skill rating was above yours.
>
> Your info incorrect, or at the very least misleading, per Josh Menke’s posts.
>
>
> - MMR is just basically a more flexible, faster adapting version of CSR. If you play a lot of games during a season, your CSR will converge to your MMR once you’ve proved you “deserve it”. CSR is absolutely a measure of skill, and if you’ve played a lot of games that season, it’s quite accurate and a good predictor of match outcomes (just like MMR) - MMR does not currently rely on performance, only W/L. (except for the very first games you play, ever). This MAY change at some point in the future, but right now it’s only W/L and opponent skill that matter. If you lose matches you will lose both CSR and MMR (if there were a lot of quitters, the MMR adjustment might be softened, that’s possible).
Where did he say these things about MMR specifically? I thought MMR was essentially TrueSkill; does TrueSkill not take into account personal performance?
> 2533274817408735;14:
> Where did he say these things about MMR specifically? I thought MMR was essentially TrueSkill; does TrueSkill not take into account personal performance?
TrueSkill is purely win-based—at least in the sense that the framework is built around wins and losses. I guess you could hack individual performance into it, but I don’t see why someone would do that.
I’m pretty sure the MMR is TrueSkill at least in principle (since there are more than one way of implementing the same ideas into a rating system), and if I’ve interpreted this correctly CSR is pretty much the same thing, since Halo 3 relied on TrueSkill, except with a slightly different implementation (e.g., seasonal resets). So, as far as I’m aware, the both use practically the same methods, but CSR has things like seasonal resets, while MMR could in principle transfer across playlists and do other such things which may not make sense for CSR, but could improve match quality.
> 2533274817408735;14:
> > 2533274906308237;13:
> > > 2533274817408735;12:
> > > > 2533274805919869;11:
> > > > > 2533274817408735;9:
> > > > > > 2533274821522072;7:
> > > > > > > 2533274805919869;2:
> > > > > > > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
> > > > >
> > > > > Couple things:
> > > > > - Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
> > > >
> > > > So you are screwed if you do bad in your 10 placement matches and place lower since you will be matched against higher ranks? Then whats the point of CSR is it just a trophy?
>
> Where did he say these things about MMR specifically? I thought MMR was essentially TrueSkill; does TrueSkill not take into account personal performance?
Ugh there are so many matchmaking threads. Try this one for a table of contents. Also, here’s his answer to whether stats are used to affect MMR during the 10 placement matches (they aren’t, except if you’re brand new to halo), which also holds true for the rest of the season.
> 2533274825830455;15:
> > 2533274817408735;14:
> >
>
> TrueSkill is purely win-based—at least in the sense that the framework is built around wins and losses. I guess you could hack individual performance into it, but I don’t see why someone would do that.
>
> I’m pretty sure the MMR is TrueSkill at least in principle (since there are more than one way of implementing the same ideas into a rating system), and if I’ve interpreted this correctly CSR is pretty much the same thing, since Halo 3 relied on TrueSkill, except with a slightly different implementation (e.g., seasonal resets). So, as far as I’m aware, the both use practically the same methods, but CSR has things like seasonal resets, while MMR could in principle transfer across playlists and do other such things which may not make sense for CSR, but could improve match quality.
Yes, MMR is basically trueskill. It’s updated after every game according to win/loss and the average MMR skill differences between teams. Individual player performances are NOT used (exception: FFA). Josh Menke has talked about possibly incorporating performance into future versions of MMR, but that’s just an idea so far.
your CSR is updated after every game, proportional to [Enemy team avg MMR] - [your team avg MMR]. BUT, your team’s avg MMR is calculated as [TeammateMMR + TeammateMMR + TeammateMMR + YourCSR]. That helps your CSR converge to your MMR as you play ~60 games throughout the season.
> 2533274906308237;16:
> > 2533274817408735;14:
> > > 2533274906308237;13:
> > > > 2533274817408735;12:
> > > > > 2533274805919869;11:
> > > > > > 2533274817408735;9:
> > > > > > > 2533274821522072;7:
> > > > > > > > 2533274805919869;2:
> > > > > > > > Daimond 4 is close to Onyx, why are you surprised you would match Onyx players?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was Diamond 4 LAST season.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Couple things:
> > > > > > - Matchmaking uses you MMR, which is hidden, to matchmake you with players. It does not use CSR, which is your visible ranking. And your MMR and CSR may not be equivalent. - Your ranking from the last season helps determine what ranks you play against in your placement matches.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are screwed if you do bad in your 10 placement matches and place lower since you will be matched against higher ranks? Then whats the point of CSR is it just a trophy?
> >
> > Where did he say these things about MMR specifically? I thought MMR was essentially TrueSkill; does TrueSkill not take into account personal performance?
>
> Ugh there are so many matchmaking threads. Try this one for a table of contents. Also, here’s his answer to whether stats are used to affect MMR during the 10 placement matches (they aren’t, except if you’re brand new to halo), which also holds true for the rest of the season.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274825830455;15:
> > > 2533274817408735;14:
> > >
> >
> > TrueSkill is purely win-based—at least in the sense that the framework is built around wins and losses. I guess you could hack individual performance into it, but I don’t see why someone would do that.
> >
> > I’m pretty sure the MMR is TrueSkill at least in principle (since there are more than one way of implementing the same ideas into a rating system), and if I’ve interpreted this correctly CSR is pretty much the same thing, since Halo 3 relied on TrueSkill, except with a slightly different implementation (e.g., seasonal resets). So, as far as I’m aware, the both use practically the same methods, but CSR has things like seasonal resets, while MMR could in principle transfer across playlists and do other such things which may not make sense for CSR, but could improve match quality.
>
> Yes, MMR is basically trueskill. It’s updated after every game according to win/loss and the average MMR skill differences between teams. Individual player performances are NOT used (exception: FFA). Josh Menke has talked about possibly incorporating performance into future versions of MMR, but that’s just an idea so far.
>
> your CSR is updated after every game, proportional to [Enemy team avg MMR] - [your team avg MMR]. BUT, your team’s avg MMR is calculated as [TeammateMMR + TeammateMMR + TeammateMMR + YourCSR]. That helps your CSR converge to your MMR as you play ~60 games throughout the season.
I’m pretty certain that the Smurf patch that released earlier this year has the system focusing on individual performance metrics heavily when it’s a new profile’s first few matches in order to escalate their MMR gains to much more appropriate levels before switching over to the game’s standard method of MMR appraisal (heavily focusing on win/loss).
Lol this is how broken this game is and basically why matchmaking is no longer worth my time and effort. Like a few months ago I put together a beast squad together full of low diamonds thats should easily be high onyx/champs. We go into hcs hoping you know we will face another diamond team of 4. Nope!!! The game literally said screw you mexican cholo not so fast!!! Placed us back to back games against well you know high onyx and champions. There is no progression in this game. You face what your meant to play against no matter what rank you are. Its like smashing your face into a brick wall. If your a good player then you’ll most likely get bad teammates to balance it out and vice versa. So this brings me to my question why aren’t we given the rank that we deserve in the first place??? Literally the reason I just smurf it up all day and poop on kids. Not worth my time fighting for a rank thats only achievable on that special tuesday morning, if its raining and all the champs and high onyx players aren’t on. Or you can do what other bad kids do and queue with full teams of smurfs and boost. But whatever ranking system is broke and can’t be fixed due to low population. I’ll just be careless smurfin until halo 6.
If you deserved Onyx, you’d be Onyx. If you aren’t Onyx it sounds like you don’t actually deserve it, especially in HCS.
> 2533274796457055;19:
> If you deserved Onyx, you’d be Onyx. If you aren’t Onyx it sounds like you don’t actually deserve it, especially in HCS.
Lol a bold answer coming from 343! So what your telling me is I have to play against onyx players to obtain the onyx rank??? That’s rediculous! That’s not progression. Go look at overwatches ranking system you could learn from it. Thats progression! Ranks fighting same ranks to obtain the higher rank. I was diamond last season. No reason I should be facing anything higher than that and if the game does face me against these better players then it should at least be giving me teammates of equal worth. I dont mind facing onyx players with onyx players cause thats easy to win. Then you also have the flip side of it…when you rank against a platinum smurf who is clearly a high onyx/champ. The game will then decide to give you a legit platinum player to balance it out. So then how is this fair? If I lose I lose a lot of csr and if I win I gain practically nothing. On top of that there’s your lovely teams of 4 against solo players! This ranking system is probably the worst I’ve seen out if any game I played. If I ever felt I didn’t deserve onyx then I wouldn’t be bringing this up in the first place. When more than half your community is against your ranking system then it should be pretty obvious by now just sayin. Almost all my good friends that played this game pretty much moved on because it’s not worth their time. They might jump on here and there to play a little but thats about it.