Ranking System Needs Update Badly

Games Halo Infinite
1

I know a lot of us don’t play Halo Infinite for it’s competitive side, some enjoy more the social playlists and having fun. I do like that as well, but one thing I love about Halo, dating back to Halo 2, is Ranked. The CSR system needs a major revamp and one where you have more disbursed ranks across tiers, and a reward system that makes sense. Currently, it seems like over half the players are are in Onyx and then are given a #, which I think is just lame. Honestly, I think a tweak can be implemented using the current system and make getting into Onyx harder and more ‘Elite’. A ranking system where being Platinum or Diamond is still really really good, and the largest chunk of players (30-40%) are near the middle, between Silver I and Gold VI.

The current Ranked just does not feel rewarding, it doesn’t make me want to grind, and points awarded per match don’t make a lot of sense.

2 Likes
2

The dispersion across tiers actually makes a lot of sense.

Each division is a standard deviation of the mean. This means you can work out the expected distribution very easily.

And you should have a 75:25 win-loss over the division below you.

The problem comes when grinding and rank debt allow the right hand of the curve to swell a bit. But that’s why they are so keen to keep resetting the ranks every three months or so.

It certainly does.

It lacks precision. It needs to be a much smaller scale. Not necessarily back to 1-50. Maybe 1-100. Or as someone once suggested, 1-117.

And the contrasting rules of CSR change vs MMR results in small grinds up followed by a jump back on the next loss (because your CSR is now higher than your MMR). It’s just the CSR oscillating around the MMR - but still leads to huge frustration for the player.

Nowhere near it. It is supposed to be the top 2 to 3% (one standard deviation is around 2.1%). It tends to blow out to 3 to 5% with rank debt and grinding.

I agree that the number is quite lame. And to the point that whenever you see someone with a moderate to high Onyx number your first thought is that they ground that out with squad manipulations. And that’s not how it should be.

I think the top 2 to 3% is quite fair.

But what we need is a way to reward Onyx players to do well. And in particular to keep them playing into the season after they have hit their skill peak.

I would have a system of champion points. Every time you play in an Onyx lobby vs other Onyx players (and everyone has an acceptable ping) the the game is for champion points. You could then have a table of points for the Season. Show off the leaders by region, age bracket, squads, etc.

The “grind” is then taking on and beating other Onyx players. Not trying to artificially inflate an arbitrary number.

This is what it is supposed to look like;

https://i.redd.it/ql811ro73zxz.png

Except for the top 200 champion thing. That is flawed to heck. And would just encourage even more toxic grinding than we already have.

This is part of the problem. It shouldn’t be a “grind”. It should be you playing at your best.

They do. They are just so poorly explained by 343 that people get frustrated.

1 Like
3

Will there be another rank reset when this winter update kicks in next month?

1 Like
4

I imagine so.

343 have taken every opportunity to reset them three monthly.

It needs to happen regularly to flush out the rank debt. There are people who jump into ranked and don’t keep playing. Plus the frustrating reality is that some people are grinding their CSR higher than their actual skill - and rank resets is one of the deterrents to that behaviour.

Plus it encourages people to pop back in and re-rank.

6

Yes

https://twitter.com/Unyshek/status/1584651536134963200

3 Likes
7

Oh I love this idea. I miss 1-50 because it just feels better than silver 3 or gold 5, but 1-117 sounds awesome.

8

hmmmmm all good… thanks :slight_smile:

1 Like
9

Two problems…

The divisions make CSR gaps a bit easier to “swallow”. A whole division is about 8.5 levels on the old scale.

It kind of blurs the gap. You are less likely to bat an eyelid with a Plat 2 and Diamond 4 in the same lobby - even though the gap is 27 to 38.

People are just going to get more upset with match making - completely unaware how the MMR and weightings work in the background.

And secondly… people are going to expect the old Halo 3 1-50. Which had 20 hidden levels. But if you expand back to a proper 1-50 scale it is just going to make everyone who “used” to be a 50 mad.

Wasn’t my idea - but very clever.

I would have 1 to 100 spread over the MMR of 1-1500.

And then have 17 extra “champion” levels. But make these based on wins vs Onyx lobbies. So you are no longer grinding CSR points - but are instead encouraged to keep playing and winning vs Onyx level lobbies.

1 Like
10

I’m confused. So people shouldn’t be grinding trying to improve their rank??? Not necessarily being contentious this is more for conversation and points of view but Isn’t that somewhat of the point of continuing to play ranked… to get better ? if you just play your ten games and get your rank assigned then that’s where you should stay,? why not just play any other mode then and not waste your time.

11

It depends what you mean by “grind”.

Generally it implies time as opposed to effort.

You would “grind” an XP rank for example.

You shouldn’t increase your skill rank on the basis on time played - or on winning games vs equal or (especially) lower ranked teams.

Yes. But the reality is that to rank up you need to improve in skill. You need to actually change up what you are doing.

It’s not going to happen on a game by game basis.

It’s something that evolves over days to weeks.

But people feel compelled to “grind” their CSR. And they use tactics such as squad manipulation to push their CSR above their MMR. That’s the toxic “grind” people often disparage.

Different scenario.

At the end of your placement games your MMR curve is still quite wide. Your CSR starts off at the left hand edge (three standard deviations below the mean).

And in this case you need to play more games to convince the system of your rank. As your MMR steadies and narrows your CSR will come up to meet it.

For some people it will take close to 50 games to get your accurate rank (starting from scratch). But the reality is that for most people the mean of your MMR curve is pretty much already where it is going to stay.

They definitely need to introduce something to encourage people to play.

A skill weighted XP rank would be welcome. And is coming!

I would love to see points awarded for every game you win at your rank - and then have leader boards for that.

And of course - it’s always good to get better. But you have to appreciate that once you hit your skill ceiling we are talking very slow gains.

1 Like
12

The problem is the same problem in every Halo game. Which is there’s no reward for participating in Rank Matchmaking that everyone can be proud about.

For example giving players a stupid emblem saying good job for the Division you landed in its not worth it at all. But receiving a special armor effect or death effect that you can’t earn something similar anywhere else makes a difference.

The second problem is a player shouldn’t be forced to play a certain way. Having the freedom to play how you want to makes the experience better for everyone.
For example when I play objective gametypes I shouldn’t be forced to die less and get more kills in a objective gametype. The point of the gametype is to score the objective not play more Slayer than going after the objective. I get that sometimes you have to slay to get the objective but being forced to do so doesn’t make the experience fun for anyone that goes after the objective. Its like 343 is literally in more favorable towards players that go after kills more instead of the objective which is absolutely just stupid. I can understand for Slayer gametypes because the objective is to kill the other team only but objective absolutely not. Which is one of the many reasons why I don’t play Halo Infinite Matchmaking anymore because its just boring to play. Now a days all I play is Custom Games in MCC, Halo 5, and Halo Infinite.

1 Like
13

I Agree with you that you shouldn’t be penalized for dying more than killing people. my K/D absolutely sucks but I’m not the player hanging back during capture the flag, KOTH, or strongholds trying to just pickup kills and not die. I’m usually one of the players with all the time in the middle getting killed but trying to win. Seems like for based on the specific mode they should just give rank and points based on objective not k/d. in KOTH you usually find yourself in a 3v1 and being bombarded with grenades and shot from all sides Kind of hard to last long when your team is out playing slayer.

3 Likes
14

I don’t know how important is « Damage dealt » in the CSR/MMR formula but I think it should be more impacting your rank while playing KOTH and flag.

15

Agree.

And 343 seem happy to encourage this toxic grind for a handful of CSR points.

Cap the CSR to a maximum value.

Award points for each win vs a lobby of your level (at a minimum ping) and have a leader board for this. This would encourage people to both rank up AND keep playing.

You aren’t.

But certain ways of playing are going to earn more wins and a higher rank.

As a general rule, the best time for the team to push the objective is when you have the numbers advantage on the field.

Hence the generalisation that killing more and dying less is the best way to go about it.

The important point though is that it’s about the team scoring the objective. Not an individual that just happens to like doing it.

No. As long as whatever role you play fits in with the team dynamic.

But if you are only playing the objective - but then just dying, and handing both the objective AND the numbers advantage over to the opposition - over and over. Then you aren’t doing the team thing. And you’ll lose.

2 Likes
16

It’s your team that is being penalised.

Each death is your team being outnumbered for 15 seconds or more.

But the best time to push the objective is when one or more enemy players is waiting to respawn.

Only up to a point. If you have players just going for kills then that can end up hampering the objective.

It’s a balance.

Play the man AND the objective.

Too much of either is just as bad.

1 Like
17

It’s not. At all.

You CSR doesn’t look at personal performance at all. It’s the result, the quality of your opposition, and your MMR (it resists moving away from it).

Your MMR does look at KPM (kills per minute) and DPM (deaths per minute). But they are only weightings.

You would think that.

But when Microsoft ran all the data (and we are talking millions of games) - the only metrics they found that increased the speed and accuracy of ranking were kill and death rates. KPM and DPM.

None of the other metrics helped. They looked at raw kills, KD, KDA, K-D, assists, damage, objective score and even medals.

It’s not that those things aren’t important. They clearly are. But they don’t add any significantly extra ranking prediction over the result of the game.

Some where even said to be negative predictors. They didn’t mention which, but I suspect they were referring to assists.

The thing is - if you rank people up higher on the basis of, say objective scores, they just struggle at the higher rank, lose a lot of games, and get frustrated.

And that’s why KPM probably works. It’s the best metric that reflects your ability to win a 1v1. So if your KPM is strong you are better suited to coping at the next level up.

2 Likes
18

I hit Onyx and sorta just stop caring about my rank. I primarily focus on just winning and don’t care. I hit Onyx 1770+ I believe and even then it didn’t feel any different. There needs to be something post Onyx to grind for. Just like the previous Halo games of having the top 200 players have the Champions rank.

19

I love the divisions, Bronze to Onyx - but there is a lot of people who just play to hit the next division and stop.

It’s frustrating for everyone. Not just the player themselves, but also the other players left trying to rank up but now with less people to play against.

There does.

And not just for Onyx.

The drop rate would also be high for those in other divisions.

Oh God no.

It was such a stupid concept in the first place.

And it would just promote even more toxic grinding of CSR. If that’s possible.

I would give players a point for every win at their level (eg. two Onyx teams). Then have Seasonal leader boards. You could have overall boards, regional boards, age range boards, and even silly ones, such as armour core boards… etc.

The points would even be perfect for awarding military ranks. You could be a Season 3 Diamond General, three star!

That would get the population playing ranked more regularly.

Then give out Seasonal rewards based on that.

1 Like
20

How did you get to Onyx

1 Like
21

I’m tired to read that some « X parameter » is the faster way to get ranked and to play immediately at the sweatest level.
Lot of people enjoy to begin a journey in ranked. Why « grinding » has to be bad ?
I personnaly like to watch streamers progressing through low division to top tier division.

I didn’t play ranked doubles for the entire season (except the 10 unranked) so yesterday I began to « grind » with a friend. I was plat 1 and he was silver 6.
And guess what ? Thanks to the amazing MMR/trueskill/blablabla we only matched diamonds and plat 5-6. Because it looks like my MMR is around D3 and my friend P5.
And this is silly ! What’s the point to give people a CSR rank/division if this means absolutely nothing ! I don’t care taking my time and beating ennemies until I reach my predicted rank.

I’m not pro, i’m not pretending to be so I’m not in a hurry. I just want to enjoy fighting every players separating me from my objective because IT’S THE ONLY THING LEFT TO DO in this game.

This MMR/CSR is pointless. Just give us MMR if you don’t want us to grind and just put us immediately in the sweatzone…