Playing Arena, I start my daily session from 1380 MMR. I win three games to earn 11 points, then I even lose 13 points in a single game. I find myself at 1378.
I win another four games playing well and only earn 11 points. Then I lose only one game and go down 13 points again.
In principle that would be correct. The problem is that this system is too rigid, and it creates a lot of frustration. It should be softened a little.
It is not fair to commit 100% a game to earn only 1 point (2%). It is not fair to lose in one game what he had earned in four victories by playing well. It is sadistic.
Regardless of the value of the opponents and the way you play, there should be more âhumanâ thresholds. An Example? imho, minimum and maximum victory should be 17% (1/6th) and 33% (1/3rd). Same values, but negative, for min and max defeat.
Without knowing the intricacies of how TrueSkill is applied in Infinite.
If the team you play is very close in skill your MMR doesnât go up or down very much.
If you lose to a team ranked below you the penalty will be harsher.
Itâs all about the W/L. It doesnât matter if the score is 50:49 or 50:29.
If your CSR has drifted away from your MMR you can get a bit of a correction when a W/L falls in that direction.
There is a weighting in TrueSkill2 for performance (kills per minute) and I think the consensus is that Infinite makes other judgements (eg. for objective plays) - but we donât really know for sure.
Pure K:D is not straight forward, even in Slayer. We all know that player who has a solid K:D but didnât really contribute to the result.
very much? we are talking about +1 MMR point per win with good individual performance. This is deeply unfair. Just as it is profoundly unfair to lose the points earned with 3-4 previous victories in a single game.
The fact that True Skill 2 is done like this does not mean that it cannot be improved / adapted.
You beat a team of the same rank. The system canât deduce anything from that result except that you are at least as good as the other team. It doesnât, and shouldnât, qualify you to rank up.
In Halo 5 I think Onyx players only go up 3 points for a win?
If you are #2 in the world - beating the #3 a couple times in a row does nothing more than confirm you are #2. The system shouldnât automatically make you #1.
The nature of the system though is that you will get games vs teams a bit better and you will have the chance to level up a bit faster. Just donât lose to teams that are ranked lowerâŚ
And your individual performance doesnât mean a lot. Itâs a team game⌠and the performance of the team is paramount. The best player on the losing team in the superbowl doesnât get a medal (or is it a ring) - but the worst player on the winning team does.
no bro, itâs not fair. If my team wins it has to go up, and not by 1%. It has to go up because the victory has to be rewarded, it has to give the players gratification. If you give crumbs for 4 wins and take half a bar off with one defeat, you are just fooling people. Youâre spinning her like the hamster in the wheel.
But you only beat a team that is pretty much as good as you are. The system canât make any conclusion other than you are at least as good as them.
It canât magically rank you up.
If Iâm #1035 on the Tennis circuit⌠and I beat the player ranked #1036⌠do I deserve to move up? Maybe just a tiny bit. Maybe to #1034. But I certainly donât deserve to move up to #900 - even if I beat #1035 five times in a row.
Itâs pretty much how all ELO type systems work⌠from Chess, to Tennis, to Halo.
And itâs along those lines why they probably dropped the âChampionsâ. Unless the top 200 players were playing each other regularly - and given servers / time zones they probably werenât - the system was guessing at best.
Poor excuse to remove it. Iâm not against champion ranks. Iâm just using it as an example that even without the ranks people can be good.on paper but bad in game
Itâs because you are at a rank thatâs higher than your regular performance. Your rank is based on all of your games not just one good or one bad game.
The system doesnât want to move you up too much as it has determined you are not ready because your regular performances donât support that.
Youâre talking about MMR and Onyx rank points as if theyâre the same thing when they arenât.
MMR is essentially your hidden TrueSkill2 rank that the game matches your teammates, and the enemy team with, and doesnât really correlate to your in-game rank effectively. MMR is across ALL games; social or ranked, and is an uncapped value that dictates your personal âskillâ. The problem with the current system is that because its across social AND ranked, so destroying in social basically hinders you from finding balanced ranked games, as if you constantly go +20 in social, when you do waltz into a ranked game, the matching believes you will continue to go +20, and will match you with teammates who effectively go -20 to balance out the game and make it âfairâ.
Also, because this value doesnât have a cap for whatever reason, the more you play and do well, the higher and higher this ânumberâ will go, and you will steadily get worse and worse teammates to balance out how good the game expects you to go vs the opposing team, in both social and ranked.
Say you play 1000 games and because it doesnât have a cap, your MMR is 20k, while people with many less games played (but still good players) might be around 3-6k. Even though your slaying ability might be slightly better than the opponents, the game will try to balance out this number with teammates who effectively have no hands, because with that number, the games predicts the game will be even due to the combined numbers of each team are as similar as the lobby allows.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2018/03/trueskill2.pdf
Scroll down to âmode correlationâ think page 20 for game-wide MMR in TrueSkill2. Or just read the whole thing, its quite interesting if you care at all.
Also MMR is open ended, I forget where my source is but it was an exchange on twitter between Tashi343 and a few HCS pros, as well as is just well known atm in the competitive scene. Can try googling it I guess? Or just not believe me haha but yeah. Not sure why you said it isnât, but youâre right it doesnât work and it shows.
At this point Iâm tired of making the unfounded assumption that TrueSkill2 works the way we have assumed in previous games. Last night, I played a session with a squad of four. By the end of the session, I increased about 50 Onyx points while another team member dropped from Onyx 1520 to mid Diamond 6. I performed better than him, but not outlandishly. Obviously, we had the same W/L as we played together.
Based on that, I can confidently state I do not understand how this ranking system is tuned, unless our hidden MMRs were markedly different and I happened to be artificially low and he was artificially high. I suppose thatâs possible, but still incredibly confusing and frustrating.
Interestingly, I see consistently better rank rewards for winning in Slayer versus other game modes. Curious if others have seen that. May just be confirmation bias.
Yeah Iâm blinded by my ego, or just baffled by the fact that this dude thinks the system is great and wonderful and working as intended⌠Yet Iâm here grinding and almost at 60% win rate and going DOWN in rank.
I simply call out his rank, and now YOUR rank as peaking diamond 1⌠Simply because you havent broke into Onyx and dealt with the problems the majority of us have.
I completely agree with you: trying to make sense of rank progression in a lot of ranked matches is confusing. And, Iâve had similar experiences where the distribution of how much rank is gained in a single play session across a team of four doesnât always seem to be consistent, and for reasons I do not understand either.
Some of it seems to be who plays the objective and how that is weighted in the system. Youâre not going to get a huge KDA if you hold the oddball the entire game, but if you win an oddball match for your team â youâre probably going to stack up with less rank progression than a teammate who slayed out. I donât think this is right / fair, especially for an objective based playlist.
The other part of it seems to be inconsistent rank gains for something else going on entirely behind the scenes. This is where I want clarity on how the Halo Infinite rank system is working.
As for MMR â apparently there is a display bug on PC (or feature, yet to be determined) that will show you the MMR of each team in the post game menu on the TEAM LINEUP page. Iâve never seen it on console; only found out about it recently, but I would imagine that itâs helpful in understanding who is ranking up and how much.
Bottom line: I agree when people are saying that the system feels punishing or unfair. No one wants to spend an evening winning games for minimal progression, only to have all those gains wiped out by a few losses. Iâve had several nights like this â itâs just a complete waste of my time.
