Obviously there are more options on MMR. You can pretty much rearrange 8 players into two very close teams (at least on paper).
+50 points does sound a bit high for close games.
Wonder how that will affect CSR gains and losses post match.
What are they doing for high Onyx players… or any other rank level where numbers may be down a bit. Are they just timing out? Or will they stretch that team average when they need to.
It’s cutting deep that I’m 1800km away from my xbox at the moment…
Pretty dumb decision as long as you lose CSR for quitting and disconnects.
It could all be so simple: show players the MMR, show them the components it is made of and tell them after each match why it improved or disproved. Scrap CSR and go for a military rank system based on participation and maybe skill, like H3.
Match people based on MMR…
“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other word would smell as sweet .” CSR MMR PROgression system…blah blah blah… 6 of 1 half dozen of the other… I don’t know bout you, but I’ve been wrecking shop since the update
I did think once that it only had to be the first quitter - unless they were in a squad - but H5 introduced me to the constant abuse and yelling of team mates to get someone to quit.
No way around it. Quit has to be treated as a loss.
100%
If we could just see graphs of MMR vs CSR over time then people would understand how they work in unison.
And KPM vs Opponent Rank would go a long way to explaining why someone isn’t ranking up.
Players are grabbed by the MM according to CSR - but matched into teams by MMR.
So there is still some adjustment for form / squads.
Which begs the question - if your rank and teams are still dictated by MMR - why not just keep matching on it.
The problem was that people don’t understand TrueSkill2, MMR, CSR, or even weightings like KPM. What 343 needed to do was explain it better - and give us the tools to see for ourselves (either post game on Waypoint or with an API).
That’s why you have to disconnect it from a skillbased, visible rank. Let players earn points to progress in a system pureley based on participation and, as a motivational boost, on medals or team placing.
Finish a game and lose: 0 points
Finish a game and win: 2 point
Quit a game as the first person: -4. second -3. third and fourth 0
Finish a game, be the first in your team: 1 point
Use these points to let players progress. MAYBE connect it to your skillevel like H3, although it’S prone to create toxicity again.
If you are fancy you can refine it and have it as one meassurement against quitters. Hell, you can even bring variables like squads or high ping into play. Be creative.
Show the MMR curve, I guarantee you very few people will be pissed if they reach their skillevel if they see why they are there. MMR is something you can’t grind and 343 have to show it. But I know you are preaching the same thing since day 1…
It is actual baffeling how easy it would be elimante things like quitting, smurfing, toxicity to a great extend if you would just let good designers work on something. Not that I’m saying I am. The idea above surely has flaws which expose themselvs down the road. But that’s why you have a certain amount of time to develope a game.
343 just didn’t care and I’m pretty sure the whole back and frontend won’t support a drastic system change. So lets bet on H7…
You are much more confident in the average player’s ability to understand than I am.
Players don’t want to have to read graphs to understand what’s going on. Players want simple… Win = good, Lose = bad. They also understand that more kills is better even if they don’t always like it. If they wanted to help players understand that KPM is an important metric, then just make everyone’s number of kills the most prominent thing on the post match stats. And if they really want to emphasize this, don’t show other player’s number of deaths. (You could still see your deaths so you could calculate your own KD but the only thing you could compare with others is Kills.)
What players don’t understand and don’t like is when a hidden number determines how much their rank goes up more than their performance in a particular match. I can be Platinum 3 and do better in a match than someone who is Diamond 3 in every way you could possibly measure it. But if my visible rank is already close to my hidden rank, then I’ll only gain +5. While if the Diamond 5’s visible rank is far below their hidden rank, then they will still gain +15.
No.
Understanding what is going on in the background doesn’t make it enjoyable. People want to be rewarded appropriately for the match they just played and relative to the other players in that match.
(Also, I can’t remember a time that 343 ever explained something well.)
What is the point of giving a player two different skill numbers (one of which MMR) isn’t even real or shown ANYWHERE,. Why not just one? Simpler doesn’t mean less intelligent. In social matches in which apparently people play for “just fun”, why need an mmr anyway? I mean if you are having fun with mates what difference does it make. It confuses the ranked system in which should be the only important ranking system by definition and name
Take the mystery out it. So it being the “hidden” variable that is the cause for everyone’s tracking and match making woes.
Agree.
I would have an xp system that goes up with each game. Boosted by wins and performance (eg. Medals).
And then I would have a multiplier that goes up with positive play metrics. Complete a game and your multiplier goes up. Visit daily and it goes up. Jump in a different playlist for the day, up. Complete in the event modes, up.
Break the chain and you’re back to 1.0x multiplier.
It’s not so much how they understand them.
But at the moment MMR is the hidden boogeyman for everything that ails the tracking system. If it’s no longer hidden then people can stop fearing it
Which is what we have.
With a weighting against the quality of your opposition.
That’s all.
But people are complicating it with their MMR traumas.
Yes. It’s completely bewildering they don’t.
Their focus on expected kills and deaths (calculated from KPM and DPM respectively) was a solid start though.
Yep.
Which is why seeing how your MMR and CSR move together would be so placating.
And stop showing other player’s CSR change. It just causes CSR envy.
Except what are they using to determine the “quality of your opposition” for these calculations? I’m guessing it’s that hidden MMR number which is often not correlating with the CSR that is visible.
The result is that you can do well and win against players with a higher CSR and watch your CSR go up +7. Then in the very next game you play poorly but still get a win against some lower CSR players and watch your CSR go up +13. Visually this is confusing to players.
Im not like fellow Spartan @Darwi who can break down all of the numbers BUT I will say that ever since they changed whatever it is they changed, It seems like all of my Ranked matches have been way more evened out. The times where I was complaining about completely stomping the other team(no fun) or getting completely stomped by the other team did not happen yesterday. Every match was close or +/- between 5-10, everyone seemed to know what they were doing and again, I know this probably doesnt have anything to do with it, But Im getting Teammates that actually have COMMS! Before, I would be the only person making call outs… Maybe more players are coming back getting ready for S3 or?? Idk, maybe Spartan Darwi can explain better lol
Respect bro… I know it ain’t easy explaining the same thing over and over… I actually have learned how it works from reading your explanations and I get the algorithms because I’ve played so much…I just believe that 1 ranking is better than more than one. Peace love and soul power
I didn’t notice any difference. It’s probably just placebo for you. I still get screwed over sbmm while playing the expected carrier role. If it ranked me up immediately like in H5 then I’d say it’s changed. But it still feels the same.
Please no. Punishing people for only playing playlists they like and for taking days off from the game is a truly terrible idea. The rest of the overall idea is great but let people play when they want and in whatever playlists they want without being disadvantaged.
But you’re not “punishing” anyone. You are only rewarding those who branch out of their comfort zone.
And you’d only be talking small bonuses. You don’t actually want to make it so large that people actually start playing modes they hate just for the xp (those types are out there).
And maybe daily is too much for this bonus. Maybe plus 5% for each game mode tried over the week.
But you could have a candy crush like flurry of points - all rewarding good play habits.
