Ranked system too harsh

Hey. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this or i maybe punching above my belt.
I seem to be stuck in limbo between diamond 2 and 4. I dont mind if this is my personal max but the thing that gets me is…
i could be on the winning team for 5 games. Some games i will do well on KD say 24-15. Some a little worse say 14-12. I may gain 25% of a bar in rank over all the wins.
Then ill get one loss with one bad KD ratio say 16-20. After all we are the loosing team. I dont expect my KD to be good. It happens.
But I will lose 30-35% of my rank in one bad game.
This is very frustrating. Any one else found this

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It seems to be a common frustration.

If you go on a winning streak vs lower ranked teams you tend to accumulate some CSR but not MMR. So when you lose it tends to bring them back together.

If you want to keep any of it you need to beat a team ranked above you.

343 need to polish the “CSR” journey a bit. They shouldn’t give out points for beating teams ranked below you… but if they insist on doing so - they should take it back over the course of 2 or 3 losses. Not all on the one. And especially not when someone quits on you (it’s a common complaint).

Don’t get hung up on the K:D - it’s mainly about who you beat/lost to and where they rank compared to your team.

Your CSR is oscillating… and your true rank is likely to sit somewhere in that range. It’s just frustrating to see it yo-yo.

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It would help if every other game didn’t have a team with artificially low MMR in it.

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Usually this is a sign you are around the rank you’re supposed to be. That yoyo effect will happen with good and bad streaks sprinkled in with typical randomness.

I always try to stress to people to stop focusing so much on how much you lose or gain every single game. Just play, have fun with ranked and you’ll end up where you belong. Some days you’ll be down and others you’ll be back up. Ultimately it all averages out in the end. Keep learning from your mistakes if you want to improve and try to pick up things from other players whether that be teammates or enemies doing something that controls the flow of the game. You’ll end up improving eventually if that’s your goal to become Onyx or whatever.

Also just because you hit a peak of doesn’t mean that’s the rank you should stay at, you could have had a lucky streak to hit it and now you’re back down. Same can be said for falling down rank. It could just be bad luck but playing more games will even it out and you’ll end up higher. Some players think because they hit a peak they should always return to that point no matter what, but often that isn’t the case and it can be frustrating.

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Darwi I’ve seen post after post when you repeat this stuff. The ranking system is more based on your performance than beating the teams you play against.

This idea of beating a team you were supposed to lose to leading to rank up was more accurate of TS1 not TS2. Although there are parallels because the system bases the % of victory based on the personal strength of the players. What’s more important is how well you play against those players NOT if you win or not.

Winning is required to level but the amount of progress/regress is based on where your MMR is in relation to a predetermined MMR for a particular skill level. You can stomp players early in your ranking and fly up because it’s nothing to do with beating bad teams.

This is why if the game thinks you’re diamond 3 and go on a win streak and get to diamond 4. The system is looking to de-rank you regardless of who you lose to. It’s always looking to bring players to what it believes is their MMR.

The win % is directly related to the sum of the players individual skills but it’s not the reason for ranking.

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It’s both, your performance is weighted based on the teams. So if you’re expected to destroy a team, and you do then that’s not indicative of anything so your performance is largely irrelevant.

yes and the team is based off the personal performance of the players

Yep. The system is always looking to bring your CSR back to your MMR.

Beating teams below you (the typical win streak) pushes your CSR above your MMR.

First loss, even if due to a quitter, gives the system an excuse to bring you back.

If you want the system to believe you are a D4… the only way is to beat teams ranked above you. Yes, there are weightings to personal performance, but you still have to beat such teams.

You fly up early in your ranking because your post-placement CSR is way lower than your MMR. Your curve is still wide and volatile - so easier to move. And in this case, weightings such as kill rates (when playing softer opponents) can be used to full effect.

Later in the season your CSR tends to be above your MMR so the drag is down.

When you do get that (increasing infrequent game vs a better team) it’s much harder to utilise the weightings such as kill rates (specifically vs better opponents). Plus your curve is narrow and less volatile, so the shift if you do win, are less.

Honestly they need to completely rebuild the ranked progression system.

In my opinion it should work like this:

Amount of XP/Rank lost after losing a game should be based solely on YOUR performance and not as the team as a whole.

  • KD
  • Flags captured
  • Flags stolen
  • Flags returned
  • Enemy flag carries killed
  • Flag defense
  • Time holding ball
  • Enemy ball carries killed
  • Ball defense
  • Points Captured
  • Point defense
  • Point offense

XP/Rank gained on a win however should be determined by YOUR contributions to the team and the teams performance as a whole. Using the same criteria as above. Win or loss streaks should never carry any extra penalty or bonus. Obviously all this would verry depending on gametype.

Losing rank due to poor teammates performance or people quitting/disconnecting is just unacceptable. You as a good player should never be punished for the performances of others.

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What you are describing is an XP based system (eg. Reach).

I am fully in for having one of these for people to grind instead of a number attached to the CSR.

Then you can let the ranking system work in the background to do what it does best - rank people by skill for match-making.

I dont mind if i am a diamond 4,3 or 2. But 90% of the time i am not playing against or have other diamonds on my team.
I also played a game of ball with 3 other diamonds on my team. We were against 2 plat, gold and one that quit.
Obviously we dominate and all my team mates got a large helping of rank. The other team all lost rank.
So my opponent that was a plat 6 went down to a plat 5.
You telling me this was the system getting him back to his correct level.
The entire team would of been better off quitting too

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It’s a team game. You win and lose as a team. Go away with this personal performance nonsense.

Let’s say you go 20-10-1 (the one being asists). And your teammate goes 16-14-10. You are telling be, YOU should get more rank than your teammate who assisted the team to get Lila’s while you played selfishly to get a high KD.

For a team based arena shooter, winning should be the utmost prototype. If you want to sprinkle in performance as an addition, sure, but it should not weight as heavy as it does right now in infinite.

Sadly I’ve stopped playing this game after two weeks of launch, even though I’m a dished Halo fan for 20 years. Makes me sad.

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They definitely need to address how the system works around quitters.

Need context. What constitutes a large helping. Was it all for this game. We’re any of them fresh from placement (CSR < MMR).

And the ranking of the quitter?

Again, context. Plat 6 to Plat 5 could be one point.

If their CSR > MMR then yes. Probably.

You haven’t provided any description of their individual journey.

It’s hard making assumption for or against on one data point.

And overall I’m not saying the system doesn’t need tweaking. We just don’t have enough info or data. What are the exact weightings and how are they applied?

At the moment everything is anecdotal and there is a lot of emotional bias.

Not even close to what I’m saying. Halo Infinite uses a KDA system. If someone goes 16-14-10 then they should get XP/Rank appropriate to that score as they have contributed to the team.

What I’m saying is if you go 16-14-10 and your teammate goes 3-15-1 and you lose then you shouldn’t lose large amounts of XP/Rank because your teammate was horrible. You should be rewarded for your performance and contributions to the team. Not lose half you rank.

Reread my post as it is clear you do not understand what I’m saying.

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I my eyes what ever the score or kd ratio. If someone quits you should not lose or gain rank.
I just started a 3 on 4 ranked slayer. Turns out we were all diamond. I was on the team with 3 and the other 2 left.
The other team won of course but i still loss some rank not alot say 3 points. I stayed for the onslaught. That is some kind of bs.

As for a team game… yes i agree. But its really annoying when no one plays the objectives or together. I know the system is broken and no one wants to pick up the ball to maximise their kd.

Then you get that game where people are communicating and working together… and these are the games that keep me coming back. But they are 1 in 10

Agree that they need to do something with 4v3 (or less). The only person who should lose rank is the quitter.

As for personal performance - it’s tough.

Even in Slayer there’s debate about how to integrate assists into the mix.

And my personal bias is to push for using damage ratios instead.

And outside of slayer it’s nigh on impossible to rate and score contributions to objective games. The number of times I’ve died trying to delay the enemy swarming on the flag carrier (and happy to do so) - how do you quantify sacrificial acts like that?

The sad thing is that we’ve currently got players changing up the way they play in the hope of eking out a handful of extra CSR. Even though that gain is probably not statistically significant anyway.

They aren’t grinding a higher skill level… just a higher “number”.

And to make matter’s even worse it’s probably on a false quest for KD or KDA - when then the dominant metric is kill rate. And it’s a weighting that helps you rank up faster - not necessarily higher.

We desperately need a QA from 343 to set the narrative here.

Been between Diamond 6 and 5 for WEEKS then suddenly crap game after crap game for whatever reason, and because of all that? Dropped to about Diamond 4 at the 75% mark. This is Solo/Duo and it is by god an indication how bad this game truly is on so many fundamental levels.

I flew through Diamond pretty quickly and I don’t think I ever de-levelled more than once or twice. Lost loads of games but I never fell apart myself.

To get over that hump you really need to be more consistent. Playing 3v4? You best grab the shotgun and play for your life. You’re gonna lose so you better Slay as best you can to avoid going down.

So you dropped by around 75 to 100 CSR points?

Not a huge amount if you’ve had a bad day or two.

What sort of losing streak are we talking? 10 in a row? More? Any quits? (they cost you heaps).

Halo is like any skill. You have good days and bad days. Form runs in patches.

But simply dropping from Diamond 6 to 4 is hardly a reflection of how good - or bad - this game is on a fundamental level.

Having a worse teammate usually means one of two things, you/the team are supposed to be offsetting them. You may need to carry some players harder to win. Lower ranked players may struggle and need you to go harder to keep up. The enemy may be better than them and worse than you. Of course it’s easier for you to go positive and much harder for them. You need to go even more positive if you’re losing because of that.

Or you arent supporting them enough/playing to their strengths. Of course players can do badly but if a player is struggling it’s up to the team to lift them up if you want to win.

Obviously teammates can underperform and let you down, but ultimately your teammates change every game so your rank is on your own shoulders.

Even if you go ham, nobody wins by themselves in a 4v4. Blaming your teammates will never make you a better player.

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