You’re only stuck at a level when you are capped by your own skill. You don’t get hardstuck at a rank, if your skill levels changes your rank will too. Doesn’t take too long once your performance changes. It encourages players to improve to start seeing movement in their rank. Why should your rank go up or down if you are playing the same constantly?
The alternative is not being stuck at a certain rank and experience larger swings in either direction. Sure you may gain decent CSR for a couple of wins, but you’ll lose huge amounts of CSR for losses. The wins will feel better but the losses will feel much, much worse.
This discourages me from playing even though I knew about it from being stuck at 47 in Halo3 FFA. I feel it isn’t an open system and discourages the underdog from ever finishing on top. Sad times for David!
It’s discriminatory in some sense. My two younger brothers both got ranked in Diamond 1 after 10 games. My youngest brother played the same amount of games as my other brother or there abouts and he reached Onyx first by a clear mile. He is the better player - he has no fear and would often hit 30 or 40 kills in a game.
But this is a team game. It reminds me of Reach when it’s iteration of team Arena was released. Where team mates would fight over the rockets so they could get more kills per game. I haven’t seen that here but slaying is definitely an issue in Objective game types.
I feel player performance can be a negative value if the weighting leans on its outcome too much within a team game.
This needs to be addressed in some degree. However I have had quite a few 50-49s so it does work in the way it is intended.
Halo 3 used a different ranking system, they used Trueskill which has since been improved to Trueskill2. In Halo 3 only wins and losses affected your rank, not personal performance.
Kills and deaths have less weighting in objective games than they do in slayer games.
Wins are also important in determining a players value, so by playing in a way that elevates the whole team they will see a better outcome. While I agree the emphasis should always be on the team player aspect, it’s also a system which I think rewards it. As a good team player will win more games and consistently perform well within different teams, by completing the objective or supporting the completion of the objective.
Ultimately anyone who is trying to sway the system by playing in a certain way will be unsuccessful as we don’t fully know how it is measured, what aspects carry the most weight and playing outside of the meta will ultimately lead to more losses. So if a player is trying to be smart with it, they will likely be shutdown very quickly in their attempts.
As someone who has done solo runs from 1-50 on Halo 3 I’d say that a player will always get to the rank they deserve after enough games, this system just makes it happen faster by ensuring that lucky/unlucky streaks are not overtly praised/punished. It was particularly noticeable in Halo 3 as you did match on visible skill so someone who had a lucky streak and got too high would certainly be a liability to their teammates.
Yeah most of us get the system now. It just isn’t very fun after getting to the wall. It’s like 50-50 split sweat matches every game and while that’s fun from time to time it becomes kind of grueling. An infinite struggle to keep a rank you worked so hard to get. Nerf de-rank and add a standard win rank buff…a wins a win. When cheating is well prevalent in a game you kinda need to stop the hard de-ranks until you solve that. Not consistent from what I’ve noticed in terms of match quality. These guys make squids so easy on pc. Make a new free account everyday.
Except I’m 25% of the equation on a team of 4. And, if there’s a hidden skill rating underneath, the visible rank is not even representative of my skill level. To say that the gains and losses are fully my responsibility is ridiculous given the possibility of being matched with bad teammates, not to mention the other problems plaguing ranked that are causing bad matches (servers, desync, cheaters, quitters etc)
Even if there weren’t the problems mentioned above, the system is not encouraging me to improve if I spend 3 hours going up in rank, only to be right back where I started by the end of the night or worse off than I was before due to a few bad matches. That’s WAY too punishing. And, from the sound of it, a lot of people are frustrated with the system doing this as well.
De-rank is nerfed if you play consistently well. Win is buffed if you play consistently better. Adding some arbitrary buff would mean every player was in Onyx as most players have a 50%ish win ratio because that’s how the system is designed.
But you are a constant in every game. I keep saying it but individual games aren’t as important as the wider picture. Your rank isn’t determined by one game. It’s determined by all of them. If you consistently have a strong impact on the team then you can influence the outcomes of more games and therefore win more games. Everyone complains about bad teammates but fails to neglect to acknowledge when the enemy team has bad players. In fact the enemy team is more likely to have a quitter or bad teammate than you if you are a non quitter and never have bad games… As they have 4 players and you only have 3 and yourself. But we all have bad games, sometimes we are the bad teammate too.
You aren’t improving in 3 hours. You are getting a hot streak or luck. You aren’t magically a better player because you won a handful of games. Hot streaks and bad streaks happen to all players. I also said this earlier but majority of players peaks don’t correlate with their true rank, some don’t play enough to achieve it and others have a hot streak and hit a PB only to be brought back down to earth shortly after when they play more games and their luck averages out.
Think of it like a casino, sometimes you bet and beat the odds, but that’s doesn’t mean if you don’t keep gambling you aren’t going to get hit by the reality of statistics sooner or later. Your chances haven’t got any better, your results are just falling into the expected distribution.
You may not like the system, but from my personal experience I’ve had better and more consistent games since Trueskill2 was adopted than any game before it so I will always defend it. No matter how much I lose my rank, I always know I will return to the rank I belong at. I think it helps that I can usually pretty good at eyeballing my own rank so I’m aware when I’m above where I should be and when I’m under based on the other players I see at the ranks above and below me.
Ranked isnt about constantly climbing and never deranking which is what people are making it sound like they want.
I feel like a broken record. There is a place for de-ranking, I’m saying the losses shouldn’t be so punishing and the gains shouldn’t be so small so consistently. This system may work for you, and that’s fine. But for many, the system as it is currently isn’t fun, doesn’t reflect their play-style and could be drastically improved.
My personal opinion is that none of the ranking system stuff matters until they patch the game’s desync issues, and rebalance what actually influences the ranking. Right now k/d has a higher weighting than objective play, even though almost every game is an objective based game. It encourages people who want to rank up to avoid the objective altogether, hoping that some poor sap will sacrifice themselves over and over to do that for them, go negative, and get almost no credit for winning the game.
The gains aren’t the same for everyone, it’s only because you’ve hit the upper echelons of your current ability level.
When I was in Diamond 5 I was at 1,448. I won 2 games then lost 3, then won 1, then lost 4 in a row and my final rank after all that was 1,488. I won 3 games and lost 7 and my rank increased by 40 CSR.
In game modes where the objective to score the most kills,
then we expect this correlation to be high. In game modes where the objective is to capture
territory or simply stay alive as long as possible, we expect this correlation to be low. Even in
modes where the objective is to score kills, there may be teamwork effects where players can
help their team win without scoring kills themselves. We ultimately want player skill to reflect
a player’s ability to win, not their ability to score kills.
Yesterday, I dropped 50 CSR by losing 5 games in a row. Every single game I had a positive K/D (the only thing the game seems to base your gain/loss on).
I then went on to win 4 in a row, also positive K/D, and gained 8 points.
The games were all balanced out with mostly Onyx players and the few diamonds scattered throughout so it’s not like my wins were against Golds and Platinums to throttle my CSR gains.
Exactly what was said above by a different user, and many others elsewhere. The system doesn’t seem to care how long you hold the oddball for your team or how many flags or zones captured.
This may not be your experience. But it’s the experience many are having.
It is true, I’ve tested it extensively. The fastest way to rank up is to go positive and win the game. You can lose rank for going negative and winning. You tend to not lose any credit if you go positive and lose. The obj time has no real impact on anything.
If you have a good kd, objective time, AND win, your rank skyrockets
It’s how I got to Onyx, by learning all those factors. I simply stopped going for objectives and worked on slaying until it was absolutely necessary to win the obj. That’s how you rank up. Throwing your life away to secure the oddball or flag over and over makes you lose rank.
But it’s not me stating anecdotal evidence, it is factually stated in Microsoft’s official Trueskill2 document.
Aside from that, it is fairly naive to think that the rest of the team is not contributing to the objective when you are given the freedom to complete it by them.
Ok Ken. Well thank you for your opinion, which is clearly based upon the assumption that Microsoft’s Trueskill2 system is functioning 100% as intended within Halo Infinite. Maybe when you’re not calling others naive, and refusing to acknowledge the negative experiences / pain points many of us are having with the current ranking system, we can resume the conversation.
I’m glad you’ve ran your own extensive tests, but there’s documented proof of how it works.
If you have a good kd, objective time, AND win, your rank skyrockets
Well yeah… You are basically doing the full package there…
There are players with 1.3 k/ds that are the top 10 in the world above all manner of players with almost 2 k/ds. Again I’m glad you’ve run some tests yourself and just scraped your way into Onyx, but that doesn’t change the fact we have a published document confirming what you’re saying is false about k/d when it comes to objective.
But of course if you go huge in objective then obviously that’s better than holding the ball. Your team can hold the ball for free because you’re slaying so hard. They go hand in hand. It’s why I unfortunately upset the other user by saying it’s naive to think objective work is unrelated to the rest of the team. Does the person capping the flag deserve more rank than someone who carried it most the way or the two people slaying the enemy team to set up the pull and keep them busy on spawn? Of course not. But what they are doing is still essential to the win.
It sounds like you’ve recently learnt to adapt to realise when you should be the main slayer and when you should be the workhorse. That’s what’s got you into Onyx. Not the fact you are focusing on slaying, just that you seem to now be better at knowing when you are supposed to be doing it. A lot of games you end up having to be a combination of both based on the flow of the game, the spawns etc etc. A player should never only fulfill one role if they want to find success.
It’s quite funny watching you try to explain yourself with your all mighty knowledge. It’s almost as every role is important to do the objective successfully and they should all be rewarded equally… It’s simply just not the case. The most important thing that should matter is winning the match over EVERYTHING… Everything else is extra, the fact that Wins are not rewarded more is the core of the problem.
I’m not sure which 343 employee gave you those documents, but they’re wrong. The top level onyx players and pros state outright that K/D is the most important factor when it comes to the current ranking system.
One second of ball time In a match has the same amount of credit as holding the ball the entire match. Call it bad programming, a bug, unfair, etc, but the fact remains this is how it works. This is why so many people are trapped in platinum, because they’re still trying to be objective players.