Ranked objective time - A waste of time?

Why do you have objective modes in the ranked playlist if you don’t give any credit for playing them?

This has been a problem complained about since day one. As far as I can see nothing has been done about it at all. When you watch the highest ranked players it is like they are allergic to the objective, because they know it will cause their CSR to drop. The credit for objective time and flag caps really needs to be drastically increased.

Case in point. I just had 2.40 of ball time, single handedly won us the game, against a team with a higher average MMR. I went negative three kills, because funny enough I prioritised the objective. As a Diamond 1 I got basically no increase in CSR for that, and a Diamond 4 in my team who had 10 seconds ball time farming kills jumped up by 5 times more CSR than me?

The ranking system is absolutely dreadful. I got 160 of the total 200 points my team got, and I got barely any increase in CSR against a higher MMR team because I went marginally negative? Go figure.

I can’t be the only one who thinks this ranking system is not fit for purpose?

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I am genuinely surprised that people even play ranked considering how meaningless it is. Social is basically ranked because of MMR, albeit it is hidden. Couple that with the fact that there is quit bans in place as well. The only thing you’re playing for is a visible rank but that gets reset every six months too.

I’d save yourself the stress of it all and not play but that’s just my take.

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Yeah that’s what I did as soon as I hit onyx in season 1, will probably drop it soon and go back to social

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You get credit for objective score, kills are also less meaningful to rank in objective modes.

The best players often play the slayer role in a game. It’s a personal opinion, but I think it is a harder role to fulfill than doing the objective most of the time.

No game is won single handedly. The whole contribution of the team secured the win, whether that be holding the ball or getting slays. A player might make a game saving or game winning play but it was still up to the team to get them to that point. You couldn’t have got so much ball time without the team getting the kills.

That’s because their hidden MMR was already way higher than yours. That game likely changed very little in the MMR score for either of you. It’s just that they are getting big leaps every game to get them closer to their true CSR. Your hidden MMR is close to your visible CSR so your gains are little until your performances start to increase. This means winning games, securing good scores through kills, assists and objective against equally rated or better opponents.

Need to drop this mindset. One game is irrelevant. The CSR gains following that one game were not heavily related to the performances of that game, all ranked games are considered. It would take a truly dominant or poor performance to shift MMR much after a single game. Winning games and dropping good scores is important. This season I was Diamond 4 in placements and on the way to Onyx I played 34 games of objective. I went negative in 14/34 of these and the games I went positive were mostly by 1-2 kills. There were games where I made much larger leaps in rank than my teammates who had much better stats for that one game.

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The last few days I’ve been working my way from my P2 placement to my hopeful destination around D1 or D2 (fingers crossed).

My MMR is up there (based on past history and whom I am currently competing against) but my CSR isn’t (it’s 3 standard deviations below the mean on a wide but rapidly narrowing curve).

So at the moment wins give me close to 15 CSR points and losses take away very little. It doesn’t seem to matter much if I’m slaying or objectifying.

Soon my MMR and CSR will be in touch with each other and their behaviour will change.

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So the system is fixing your CSR. I knew that already. CSR is not a level playing field. That is anti competition.

My problem is that MMR is heavily weighted towards kills. For example, in that match each of my teammates would have got a positive MMR impact and I would have got none, or a negative impact, because my KDR was negative. That is despite me winning us the game. I will stick with using that term because objective time is literally the point of the mode.

Sure, they got kills to allow me that time, but it was me who actually won us the game by risking myself to grab the ball. 2.40 is a massive chunk of ball time, and you don’t get that from just hiding in a corner. I was rotating around the map to keep away from kill zones. They sure weren’t going to do it. Without me they would have lost that game by dozens of points, albeit with really healthy KDRs! Even when they had the chance they went nowhere near the ball. Made sense when I looked at their peak CSR after the game on halo tracker. I have not seen one player over Onyx 1600 play the objectives consistently, on streams, in my games, anywhere. They always go for kills only, and there is a reason for that, and it isn’t selfless dedication to the team.

And no; being the slayer is not the hardest job in an objective game type, it is the easiest time to get slays because everyone is focussed away from you. Those guys were picking everyone else off as they ran at me as I manoeuvred away from danger with the ball making smart rotations. I genuinely think if I had played that way, and went positive then I would have got more of a gain.

I don’t understand the logic of defending a system that gave somebody with 80% of the ball time a pitiful movement in MMR, while the guys who actively ignored the objective got massive gains. That is just completely against the spirit of competition. Ranking should be based on your performance in ranked matches, and only ranked matches. It should not be fixing your rank based on a hidden number. If you win and perform well in ranked games your rank should go up, match on match. If you don’t, it should go down.

True skill is completely contrary to the spirit of fair competition. That’s just my two cents. I have been getting increasingly more and more annoyed at this systems obsession with kills, and I think I will now stop ranked play.

Also, surely if my MMR was so much lower than my competition in that game then I should be getting a bigger jump for beating them? No? Because that would actually make sense.

Also, earlier today I jumped nearly an entire rank by going 13-2 in a CTF game, where I ignored the flag, had 0 caps.

And I jumped up nearly half a bar….

Impossible for us to say, all I know is that score is counted for your performance, so objective work does help. We also don’t know if any other niche little stats play into the MMR either. We do know MMR doesn’t massively fluctuate so likely that one game is largely irrelevant in the grand scheme. The most.improtant part is the win. You also have to consider that a flat 1 k/d is not expected by all players. E.g if an Onyx and Bronze player play doubles together and they both get a 1 k/d then the Bronze player massively overperformed Vs expectation against Onyx player who massively underperformed
If this keeps.happening then Bronze MMR goes up, Onyx MMR goes down even though their performances are equal. It’s performance Vs expectation.

I was almost Onyx 1,700 in S1 and this was not the case in 99% of my games. Only a very select few players wouldn’t hold ball even though they were in a perfect position to do so. The amount of players that blindly play objective without understanding the core principles of how to maximise objective is quite high. There are games where noone on the team picks up the Oddball as high level players because we are creating a setup. The one player hail Mary’s for the ball, dies leaves the team in 3v4 and then blames team for not playing the objective. Ironically it was their misplay that caused the objective to fail.

Some games I’ll be on Comms like let me hold ball I’m playing terrible. I get that in your games the Oddball carrier draws attention from the enemy team, but in a high level game the Oddball is not a target unless round is about to end. You’ve got to clean out the problem players and break setup initially. It’s not about 1 player. Oddball is a team game and everything goes through the team. Generally worst player holds the Oddball in a good setup. If a player throws the ball at you, they’re probably hinting that they think you’re the weakest player, or they have a power weapon and you haven’t taken the hint.

That’s because these players make consistently better plays than you in every other game. Saying they made poor plays this game and you were the champion player that won the game is conceited. You win games with your teammates. Even when someone goes negative, they contribute. You keep saying they actively ignored the objective but they’re literally slaying the enemy which is the objective. Objective is won by well timed objective work and good slays. It’s a combined effort. If you really think you shouldn’t be the ball guy, don’t pick it up or drop it. You’ll find that these selfish players will almost always pick it up and take over if the team isn’t doing their job.

But you didn’t ignore the objective, you slayed the enemy team without dying. If you can’t see how that isn’t essential to helping the team win, then I can’t help your understanding of ranked or objective. 13-2 is a pretty huge performance, wouldn’t you say so? Completely outclassed the enemy team.

My point is, the game where I ignored the objective and focussed on slays my CSR jumped massively. That in itself shows that my MMR is higher than where I currently am. However the game where I played the objective and won the game against a team of higher MMR players with at a minimum as much (I argue a lot more) contribution as the others, my CSR stayed where it was.

That to me quite clearly shows that objective play is irrelevant to your gains. And that has been my experience every time I have played ranked since November. The system does not award you for objective play.

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I’m not saying they shouldn’t have got gains for slaying. I’m saying for them to jump up and me to not move, when my MMR is higher than my CSR currently, is awful ranking

Why should you jump up half a rank for holding the Oddball for 200 seconds in a normal game?

You went 8-13 in Slayer and lost basically no CSR so maybe you should lose half a bar for that?

People want MMR/CSR to be volatile when it suits. We don’t really know exactly how it works other than the fact you won’t get heavily penalised for playing objective but it’s also capped as you can only do X number of objective per game. People confusing the idea with having people slay normally with someone going 20-1 in their game. Obviously this person shouldn’t be there, feed them CSR/MMR and get them away from these poor players.

If you did that much objective with some kills and no deaths you’d probably get a nice bump too. Deaths matter.

Look if you want to try to be the main slayer and think it will still win games, do that. I’m an objective workhorse and I’ll do whatever I need to win, it’s got me far into Onyx so it’s possible either way. Stop picking up the Oddball if you don’t want to. Someone on your team will. There’s not many players that will prioritise anything other than the win. Might cost you some games though if you’re making misplays.

Yes I went negative in a slayer, and it didn’t move. Yet more evidence that my MMR is higher than my CSR, and yet more evidence that the system doesn’t care about objective work, as it didn’t move me at all when I did 80% of the available objective work against a higher ranked team.

80% of the ball time in a match is a much bigger contribution to the win than going 13-2 farming kills in an objective mode, but the latter is what I got rewarded for.

I want MMR and CSR to reward you fairly, that’s all I want. And it doesn’t, so I’m expressing my frustration at that. I hate trueskill, I think it is completely anti competitive. But the point of this thread is to ask for objective work to be rewarded equally, and it simply isn’t

If you jump up half a rank for scoring 0 flag caps in a CTF game, with a good kdr, but you don’t move at all for doing 80% of the objective work in your team, then there is something fundamentally wrong, in my opinion

Once again capping a flag is rarely a single players effort. Why should 1 player be rewarded for something that often 4 players have contributed to? Usually the player that gets the flag most the way isn’t the same one who caps it either.

You are completely invalidating your teammates efforts if it doesn’t directly relate to objective score.

It’s like in Slayer, a player could go negative and be the reason the team wins. They might have been the reason your team secured power weapons, map control, secured 2 kills for their death with a push. Like you can say that’s the case with stats, so this player won’t get rewarded. Although they were the MVP. Same with Oddball, the Oddball player likely did very little other than basic rotation, playing the ball etc etc. Then if they drop ball, teamfight they’ll have better stats. They might have made the best plays, but who can say.

Yes, it is a collective effort, sure. And so cap assists should be bumped up massively too, that’s fits with what I’m saying. As it is it will give more credit to the guy protecting the flag runner getting kills than the actual flag runner.

In slayer it doesn’t reward you for doing those dirty jobs either. All it cares about is kills per minute. I could do a massive amount of damage, jump at the rocket guy and force a trade to avoid losing 4 kills to it, but the ranking system won’t care. And I kind of get that, because how do you measure that. But objective work is clearly measurable, it just isn’t being weighted highly enough

Genuinely I think damage is a pretty relevant stat. It feels like there is correlation between that and player rank. Purely speculation.

I dunno man I just don’t see how it works. Objective time is not really a good demonstration of skill.

Whole point of the system is to identify players who are outside their skill zone and get them to it as quickly as possible.

Well then it needs removed from ranked. If objective work is not the way to rank up then it needs removed from the playlist.

I don’t want that, obviously, I think it is the system at fault.

Some people have always liked playlists without radar.
Some people gave always liked BR starts. Some people like having a better rank than their friends. There have been weapon/vehicle emblems (and weapon charms too I think) as rewards for achieving higher ranks.

There’s plenty of reasons for people to want to play ranked. They just might not be reasons for you

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Objective games show a lot of skill, it’s the time that doesn’t necessarily as objective games are highly teamwork orientated.

E.g a player that gets loads of caps in strongholds half the time is throwing. Stop rotating A and C and help the team at B. Would you give them a huge rank increase even though they’ve played awful that game because they got 16 caps and kept screwing over the team in a 3v4?