Has anyone heard anything about possible playlists for Multiplayer? I am hoping for some ranked Big team like in Halo 2.
Does anybody else even enjoy ranked Big Team? It must not be as popular as I imagine or else it would still be a playlist.
They routinely try it in every Halo game and it always seems to fail.
There’s a few factors I think why. Pairing people based on rank is hard enough, now the system has to do it for 16 people. You need 16 people at a close enough rank, with decent connection, all searching at the same time.
If you don’t limit it to parties, then 8 stacks dominate, but most players don’t have an 8 stack which is off putting for them. Making it so parties play parties further splits matchmaking options. Big Team is fun because it is chaos, so it’s not exactly the strongest competitive game mode going anyway. People who generally enjoy big team enjoy it because it’s more casual than normal play. People who enjoy competitive generally don’t like it because they have a far smaller impact on the outcome of the game. Not to mention big team games are often longer than a standard game.
All of this results in a low population and stagnated ranks. You’ll get people stuck at rank 30 because they can never find a game. Most people end up floating about in the 1-15 range until they take the playlist out back and load the old Carbine ready to put it out of its misery.
> 2533274801036271;2:
> They routinely try it in every Halo game and it always seems to fail.
>
> There’s a few factors I think why. Pairing people based on rank is hard enough, now the system has to do it for 16 people. You need 16 people at a close enough rank, with decent connection, all searching at the same time.
>
> If you don’t limit it to parties, then 8 stacks dominate, but most players don’t have an 8 stack which is off putting for them. Making it so parties play parties further splits matchmaking options. Big Team is fun because it is chaos, so it’s not exactly the strongest competitive game mode going anyway. People who generally enjoy big team enjoy it because it’s more casual than normal play. People who enjoy competitive generally don’t like it because they have a far smaller impact on the outcome of the game. Not to mention big team games are often longer than a standard game.
>
> All of this results in a low population and stagnated ranks. You’ll get people stuck at rank 30 because they can never find a game. Most people end up floating about in the 1-15 range until they take the playlist out back and load the old Carbine ready to put it out of its misery.
I didn’t really think about the higher rank players being stuck because of the very long que times. I see what you’re saying about the pairing issue, but only at a higher rank like you say. There are plenty of ways to pair low/mid rank with parties with 4-5 players vs parties with 2-3 players or even an 8 stack. Especially with such a popular game I don’t see how they could have problems matchmaking. I wonder for a playlist like this if you could change the playlist to match by 1-2 ranks lower or higher.
Good point about BTB being just a more casual game type in general and Ranked doesn’t necessarily appeal to competitive players. I’m not sure why I want it so badly… maybe just nostalgia… or the fact that I only get a taste of it when they add the playlist and take it away so fast.
> 2533274807785399;3:
> > 2533274801036271;2:
> >
>
> I didn’t really think about the higher rank players being stuck because of the very long que times. I see what you’re saying about the pairing issue, but only at a higher rank like you say. There are plenty of ways to pair low/mid rank with parties with 4-5 players vs parties with 2-3 players or even an 8 stack. Especially with such a popular game I don’t see how they could have problems matchmaking. I wonder for a playlist like this if you could change the playlist to match by 1-2 ranks lower or higher.
>
> Good point about BTB being just a more casual game type in general and Ranked doesn’t necessarily appeal to competitive players. I’m not sure why I want it so badly… maybe just nostalgia… or the fact that I only get a taste of it when they add the playlist and take it away so fast.
Generally they search 10 ranks either side, but the lowest player can’t be more than that therefore a player rated 30 can only match with parties that have at least a 20 in them. Even if you make it larger, it just negatively affects the lower ranks as realistically the 15-20 is going to get smoked by the 30. The 30 gains almost no rank for beating them as the system expects them too and the 15-20 doesn’t want to play against them as they repeatedly lose. Even with a large gap, it’s difficult to find games because the population is generally so low.
I’m hoping they move away from seasons, but if they keep them it is likely you may see it pop up for one. It would be very unlikely to see it as a full time playlist based on its repeated historical failure.
It’s understandable, if you like it and want more investment in the mode. BTB is fun, but it does feel very low stakes. If you have MCC they have a ranked squad battle mode which is 6v6. That features larger maps and powerful vehicles. I think you’re more likely to see that return in Halo Infinite than big team. Historically that has failed too though 
One final thing for you, Halo Infinite is 12 Vs 12 for big team. So they very well may do a smaller more competitive mode for it. Hold out hope 
if they do a 12 Vs 12 competitive BTB playlist it would be bonkers.
I’m not a big btb guy but it would give me an excuse to come back to it.
The other thing is the accuracy of rankings.
We know that the Elo ranking system works very well with solo players who play each other regularly (ie. like chess).
TrueSkill and TrueSkill2 have been adapted for team sports… but it still takes longer to find your individual ranking. From Microsoft’s page the original TrueSkill needs just 3 games to find a player’s true ranking in 16 man FFA… but up to 46 games if you are in a team of 4 v 4. This jumps to 91 games with 8 v 8. And I imagine a lot higher now we’re moving to 12 v 12.
TrueSkill2 is probably quicker - but still, it needs a lot of games to find your rank for accurate matchmaking. And it may struggle to follow if you improve or drop off in form. It would be accurate enough for loose SBMM to keep teams matched in social… but not enough for ranked.
So ranked 12 v 12 BTB may not be practical.
Whole teams, on the other hand, could be ranked just as quickly as FFA. So maybe there is some utility in ranked for set teams / clans. Just not solo queues.
It would be interesting to see a ranked BTB mode but I can see them not making one for a few reasons. Like others have said on this thread the bigger the lobbies are the easier it is for teams that come in with a fully premade team of 8 or 12 to dominate making the game less fun for players who are playing solo or in groups of 2 or 3. Combine that with the general outcome that games with larger teams make it harder to any individual player to impact the game. This doesn’t mean that one player can’t change the outcome of a match but it is harder to solely influence or carry your team in a 12 v12 than it is in a 4 v 4. Again this isn’t necessarily a bad thing and game modes that require or encourage more team coordination are good. It’s hard to make those ranked because then solo players especially will feel like there rank starts to be determined more by whether or not they match with a good team than if they themselves are doing good. The closest example I can think of is something like Battlefield with their 64 player game modes. In those yes you will see that there are a few players at the top of each lobby with like 100 kills and 10000 score, but that rarely results in a game that is lopsided where you lose Conquest by like 200 points purely because of that top player’s performance. Plus if you were that top player in the lobby and you lose the game it can be incredibly frustrating to think that you did so well and still lost rank.
TLDR The bigger the lobby size is the less individual play can effect the outcome of a match. This is why a ranked BTB playlist could become frustrating for players of all skill ranks.
I’m looking forward to all ranked playlists again! It’ll be great getting my hands on another new Halo game.
I can see them trying squad battles like they have for Halo 4 in the MCC. I personally love BTB. The chaos, vehicles, power weapons just reminds me of some good ol’ custom games from my Halo 2 & Halo 3 days. One of my favorite game types was Halo 5’s Warzone. I just really enjoy a spin on our everyday slayer game-type.
I am sure 343 will be including most of the game-types that they have done in the past and maybe even ones Bungie came up with. If not all at once, a rotation of some sort will be made. I don’t believe they would miss out on the opportunity for some casual/fun game modes. So yes, personally I would enjoy a ranked BTB, but I know it would not be as serious as a 4v4 or 5v5 competitive game mode even under the “ranked” category. Regardless, I would enjoy it and play. I usually queue up some solo BTB just for the laughs. It has always been fun doing some silly stuff in the BTB game mode.
> 2533274801036271;4:
> > 2533274807785399;3:
> > > 2533274801036271;2:
> > >
> >
> > I didn’t really think about the higher rank players being stuck because of the very long que times. I see what you’re saying about the pairing issue, but only at a higher rank like you say. There are plenty of ways to pair low/mid rank with parties with 4-5 players vs parties with 2-3 players or even an 8 stack. Especially with such a popular game I don’t see how they could have problems matchmaking. I wonder for a playlist like this if you could change the playlist to match by 1-2 ranks lower or higher.
> >
> > Good point about BTB being just a more casual game type in general and Ranked doesn’t necessarily appeal to competitive players. I’m not sure why I want it so badly… maybe just nostalgia… or the fact that I only get a taste of it when they add the playlist and take it away so fast.
>
> Generally they search 10 ranks either side, but the lowest player can’t be more than that therefore a player rated 30 can only match with parties that have at least a 20 in them. Even if you make it larger, it just negatively affects the lower ranks as realistically the 15-20 is going to get smoked by the 30. The 30 gains almost no rank for beating them as the system expects them too and the 15-20 doesn’t want to play against them as they repeatedly lose. Even with a large gap, it’s difficult to find games because the population is generally so low.
>
> I’m hoping they move away from seasons, but if they keep them it is likely you may see it pop up for one. It would be very unlikely to see it as a full time playlist based on its repeated historical failure.
>
> It’s understandable, if you like it and want more investment in the mode. BTB is fun, but it does feel very low stakes. If you have MCC they have a ranked squad battle mode which is 6v6. That features larger maps and powerful vehicles. I think you’re more likely to see that return in Halo Infinite than big team. Historically that has failed too though
>
> One final thing for you, Halo Infinite is 12 Vs 12 for big team. So they very well may do a smaller more competitive mode for it. Hold out hope if they do a 12 Vs 12 competitive BTB playlist it would be bonkers.
I do enjoy the 6v6 on Halo MCC. There is something about having more players in a ranked match that just feels right for me. Unless I have 3 buddies to play slayer with I have always enjoyed bigger game types, but still want to play ranked.
You have given me hope that I may see it again or something similar. I am optimistic!