"Child of my enemy."

Since Cryptum has been released, I have been rethinking about some things.
On the level “Cortana” in Halo 3, the Gravemind says to John, “Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. For the father’s sins pass to his son.”
Now for a while we all thought that father=forerunner. But since it was revealed that ancient humanity fought off the Flood first (and pretty much brought about it’s uprising) does this now mean that father=ancient humanity?
Also Greg Bear said that one of Primordium’s human characters will have a connection with John.

Possibly. But the flood that humanity fought off didn’t sound as complex as the ones that defeated the Forerunners.

True. But John (being from present humanity) is more of a child of ancient humanity than of the Forerunners which are a completely different species.
From what I can tell, the “original flood” was like Rabies on steroids.

Maybe it’s more along the lines of “adopted” child.

> Possibly. But the flood that humanity fought off didn’t sound as complex as the ones that defeated the Forerunners.

All forms of life evolve. The flood being no exception.

Either way, Ancient Humanity was the “original” Flood’s enemy. With something like the Flood, I don’t think you stop being enemies with.

Maybe. But remember this:

  1. The Precursors got FUBAR by the Forerunners

  2. Precursors made the Forerunners, and MAYBE EVEN HUMANS!

  3. Precursors left the Flood to nail the Forerunners later on (conjecture, though most visitors of the B. Net Universe forum believe this to be true.)

  4. Forerunners decided to allow the humans to access their technology when they ascended to space flight era.

So, this means that John is the ‘child’ of the Forerunners, the intended enemy of the Flood, and the child of humans, the first enemy of the Flood.

> Maybe. But remember this:
>
>
> 1. The Precursors got FUBAR by the Forerunners
>
> 2. Precursors made the Forerunners, and MAYBE EVEN HUMANS!
>
> 3. Precursors left the Flood to nail the Forerunners later on (conjecture, though most visitors of the B. Net Universe forum believe this to be true.)
>
> 4. Forerunners decided to allow the humans to access their technology when they ascended to space flight era.
>
> So, this means that John is the ‘child’ of the Forerunners, the intended enemy of the Flood, and the child of humans, the first enemy of the Flood.

Who said the Forerunner were always the intended target? It’s possible that Humans were created by the Precursors just like the Forerunner, but both Empires were Tier 1 at the time the Flood came. Humans are only primitive now because the Forerunner beat us down and they only did that because we were fighting a two front war against them and the Flood. Humans were chosen to inherit what the Forerunner left behind because they felt sorry for what they did to us. Plus we tangled with the Flood before and we were a Tier 1 race one before.

The Gravemind isn’t purely Flood in origin or mindset though. The mind of the Last Precursor took over the Flood via some method. Before he was released the Flood was pretty much nothing more than a mindless parasite with the limited intelligence of a wild animal.

Even if Humanity were the ones who first beat the Flood, I really don’t think that the Gravemind could really care less about that, just as much as he’d care about any other race beating off the Flood. I’m far more convinced that that line is meant to solely be talking about the Forerunners and Humanities’ relationship with them.

Cryptum makes it pretty clear that the Prisoner has it in for the Forerunners and really hates them, so I think that’s what the whole “Child of my enemies” refers to, Humanity being the heirs of the Forerunners, and thus in that sense being or becoming the Forerunner.

> The Gravemind isn’t purely Flood in origin or mindset though. The mind of the Last Precursor took over the Flood via some method. Before he was released the Flood was pretty much nothing more than a mindless parasite with the limited intelligence of a wild animal.
>
> Even if Humanity were the ones who first beat the Flood, I really don’t think that the Gravemind could really care less about that, just as much as he’d care about any other race beating off the Flood. I’m far more convinced that that line is meant to solely be talking about the Forerunners and Humanities’ relationship with them.
>
> Cryptum makes it pretty clear that the Prisoner has it in for the Forerunners and really hates them, so I think that’s what the whole “Child of my enemies” refers to, Humanity being the heirs of the Forerunners, and thus in that sense being or becoming the Forerunner.

You are forgetting the part where Humans communicated with him during the Human-Flood War. They not only found him locked up but they opened it, talked to him and then locked him back up. He had knowledge on the Flood because they asked him about them when they attacked and what ever answer her game them, made them go insane and commit suicide. Humans are more involved then just being left over by the Forerunner.

> > The Gravemind isn’t purely Flood in origin or mindset though. The mind of the Last Precursor took over the Flood via some method. Before he was released the Flood was pretty much nothing more than a mindless parasite with the limited intelligence of a wild animal.
> >
> > Even if Humanity were the ones who first beat the Flood, I really don’t think that the Gravemind could really care less about that, just as much as he’d care about any other race beating off the Flood. I’m far more convinced that that line is meant to solely be talking about the Forerunners and Humanities’ relationship with them.
> >
> > Cryptum makes it pretty clear that the Prisoner has it in for the Forerunners and really hates them, so I think that’s what the whole “Child of my enemies” refers to, Humanity being the heirs of the Forerunners, and thus in that sense being or becoming the Forerunner.
>
> You are forgetting the part where Humans communicated with him during the Human-Flood War. They not only found him locked up but they opened it, talked to him and then locked him back up. He had knowledge on the Flood because they asked him about them when they attacked and what ever answer her game them, made them go insane and commit suicide. Humans are more involved then just being left over by the Forerunner.

They couldn’t let him out though, and all they did was talk to him, it was like depolarizing an area of the cage and in a sense creating a window section. That’s how it seemed to me anyway.

As far as we know right now Humanity had nothing to do with the war between the Forerunners and the Precursors. Why would the Prisoner have an inexplicable grudge against the Humans, when as far we know they have done nothing to either him or his race? Why would the Flood being beaten back by Humanity warrant the Gravemind calling Chief the child of his enemies when early Humanity didn’t have much to do with the Prisoner?

> They couldn’t let him out though, and all they did was talk to him, it was like depolarizing an area of the cage and in a sense creating a window section. That’s how it seemed to me anyway.
>
> As far as we know right now Humanity had nothing to do with the war between the Forerunners and the Precursors. Why would the Prisoner have an inexplicable grudge against the Humans, when as far we know they have done nothing to either him or his race? Why would the Flood being beaten back by Humanity warrant the Gravemind calling Chief the child of his enemies when early Humanity didn’t have much to do with the Prisoner?

We don’t have any details about the Precursor-Forerunner war. All we have is the last paragraph in the book and all he said was “You destroyed us”. How can you draw anything from that? You’re right we have no evidence that humans were involved, but there isn’t any evidence suggesting they weren’t involved either. We have no idea what he said to the Humans when he talked to them.

Both the Humans and the Forerunner were Tier 1 so they had to have “grown up” together Universally speaking. I’m sure they were involved in some way.

Haven’t read the Cyrptum books (the damn Amazon order didn’t go through!) but i digress.

What Gravemind meant by “child of my enemy”, he was refering to how Master Chief (and by extension humanity) sort of “inherited” the Forerunner legacy by the Forerunners themselves and thus makes them a “children of the Forerunners”. The “enemey” Gravemind speaks of is of course, The Forerunners themselves.

Sort how human parents pass down traits through reproduction in a sense. You inherit your parents genes and you are born as child. The Forerunners are the “parents” who pass down what they left behind and gave them to the humans who are “the children” (in this case singular as he refers to MC as a child). The legacy is the Halos and all that remains of the once mighty Forerunners.

> > Maybe. But remember this:
> >
> >
> > 1. The Precursors got FUBAR by the Forerunners
> >
> > 2. Precursors made the Forerunners, and MAYBE EVEN HUMANS!
> >
> > 3. Precursors left the Flood to nail the Forerunners later on (conjecture, though most visitors of the B. Net Universe forum believe this to be true.)
> >
> > 4. Forerunners decided to allow the humans to access their technology when they ascended to space flight era.
> >
> > So, this means that John is the ‘child’ of the Forerunners, the intended enemy of the Flood, and the child of humans, the first enemy of the Flood.
>
> Who said the Forerunner were always the intended target? It’s possible that Humans were created by the Precursors just like the Forerunner, but both Empires were Tier 1 at the time the Flood came. Humans are only primitive now because the Forerunner beat us down and they only did that because we were fighting a two front war against them and the Flood. Humans were chosen to inherit what the Forerunner left behind because they felt sorry for what they did to us. Plus we tangled with the Flood before and we were a Tier 1 race one before.

Ironically, the forerunner wiped out the cure.

> > > Maybe. But remember this:
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. The Precursors got FUBAR by the Forerunners
> > >
> > > 2. Precursors made the Forerunners, and MAYBE EVEN HUMANS!
> > >
> > > 3. Precursors left the Flood to nail the Forerunners later on (conjecture, though most visitors of the B. Net Universe forum believe this to be true.)
> > >
> > > 4. Forerunners decided to allow the humans to access their technology when they ascended to space flight era.
> > >
> > > So, this means that John is the ‘child’ of the Forerunners, the intended enemy of the Flood, and the child of humans, the first enemy of the Flood.
> >
> > Who said the Forerunner were always the intended target? It’s possible that Humans were created by the Precursors just like the Forerunner, but both Empires were Tier 1 at the time the Flood came. Humans are only primitive now because the Forerunner beat us down and they only did that because we were fighting a two front war against them and the Flood. Humans were chosen to inherit what the Forerunner left behind because they felt sorry for what they did to us. Plus we tangled with the Flood before and we were a Tier 1 race one before.
>
> Ironically, the forerunner wiped out the cure.

The culling of cats during the plague :wink:

> The culling of cats during the plague :wink:

Haha, indeed. However the Humans technically committed suicide instead of surrendering to the Forerunner so really they took the cure with them. There was a Prophet who knew the solution but he was supposedly killed when they started uprising on their planet.