Proposal to Fix Friend or Foe System

While playing the Test Flight, I have found it sometimes difficult to distinguish enemies from team mates. I even feel like I died several times because of this issue.
The outlines aren’t too clear, they disappear from far away targets and people using active camo and in this scenario the default salmon color contrasted heavily against enemies having blue Armor Coatings.
What I ended up doing is I made the lines thicker through the accessibility settings, this improved the game for me to some extent but my problems still weren’t fully resolved.
I find that with this setup I barely could notice other people’s (including the bots) their Armor Coatings unless it were the dead bodies. Pretty much contradicting what the intent was for the Friend or Foe system to begin with, since it was made to show off these Armor Coatings, with some benefits for people with colorblindness. I get that.
Additionally this system seemingly isn’t designed with the idea of multiple teams, since you will not be able to distinguish who’s in what team, this could result in making the wrong tactical choices, or at worse would even mean that there’s no multi team game modes planned at all.
My proposal to the developers is to take out the Friend or Foe system and move back to team colored armors. However the method I want to propose to do this would be different from regular Red vs Blue. I want them to keep Armor Coatings, I see the benefits of them, being able to use grittiness, dirt, textures, etc. allows for very unique designs that we didn’t have before.
Here’s my proposal:

  • Remove Friend or Foe outlining, keep this perhaps as an optional accessibility setting. - Since Armor Coatings are a shader comprised out of seven layers, add in a new layer, the team color layer, this one could apply a team color with a layer blend to still keep many aspects from the Armor Coating, allowing it to still be unique and shine out in the battlefield. - Keep team names (such as Eagle and Cobra) and allow players to set the colors of each team to their liking. This is for accessibility purposes, you can decide what team what color has if you can’t distinguish certain colors from each other. This also has the additional benefit of allowing you to always play as your favorite team color! - Revert shield colors and shield effects to the canon colors/effects. They are currently too rough in intensity to see Armor Coatings with the sole purpose of making it easier to detect who is an enemy or not. There’d be no need to make them match FoF colors with my proposal.This implementation to me seems way more multi team friendly, while resolving the biggest issues people have had with FoF and keeping the good ideas the developers had when implementing the current system we have.
    I wonder what you all think of this idea, I mostly just wanted to write out my thoughts before the flight ends so that they’d have my proposal as consideration for resolving issues with the FoF system.

Bumping this thread in the hopes of seeing some discussion.
I assume that my proposal could be too much effort to get sorted before launch, but I still hope that it would be considered being implemented after launch.

I think the outlines work fine tbh.

Can’t imagine they could or would implement something like this before launch. It’s nice to finally have my own Spartan in team games and not just FFA.

In my opinion they should just simply have the outline on your team and none on the opposing. I’ve been using bright colors like lime green to highlight my own team so if the enemy team didn’t have any outline at all I could distinguish them even better than I could with a different color outline. Still I havn’t had a problem with the system as of the technical flighting.

> 2535463802599918;4:
> In my opinion they should just simply have the outline on your team and none on the opposing. I’ve been using bright colors like lime green to highlight my own team so if the enemy team didn’t have any outline at all I could distinguish them even better than I could with a different color outline. Still I havn’t had a problem with the system as of the technical flighting.

Would be good to be able to turn it off for either your team or the enemy if you want to. It’s important to have the option for those with accessibility issues.

> 2533274801036271;5:
> > 2535463802599918;4:
> > In my opinion they should just simply have the outline on your team and none on the opposing. I’ve been using bright colors like lime green to highlight my own team so if the enemy team didn’t have any outline at all I could distinguish them even better than I could with a different color outline. Still I havn’t had a problem with the system as of the technical flighting.
>
> Would be good to be able to turn it off for either your team or the enemy if you want to. It’s important to have the option for those with accessibility issues.

True, either way I think the system is fine and I didn’t have an issue with distinguishing friend from foe, even in PvP when the other team had different armor coatings. I said teammates should only be turned on instead of the other way around because it allows you to see your squad through the objects on the map which makes foes even more distinguishable from them.

I simply don’t understand why we can’t just have service tags and arrow icons over our team and red nameplates over our enemies when aimed at.

It is the simplest fix. Allows for coatings and the new team system to shine as well as not detracting from everyone’s customisation being ruined by an outline and hue.

We’re not going to get red vs blue because Battle Pass.

So, all I want is to be able to turn off the outlines, and have coloured nametags and gamertags above the players. The outlines just don’t work for me, as I often mistook players for bots because they were both wearing blue. If it doesn’t work while all the enemy are one colour, it won’t work when enemy are different colours. I also couldn’t tell when shields were up or down at times, because of the outline. Additionally, the outline was inconsistent, and didn’t work at long distances, which doesn’t bode well for BTB.

> 2533274801036271;3:
> I think the outlines work fine tbh.

> 2535463802599918;4:
> Still I havn’t had a problem with the system as of the technical flighting.

The point of “it works for me” is not a good one. I’ve stated that it doesn’t work for me, and I’ve seen many other people have fringe cases where it didn’t work for them either. In the end we have a system that works for some while we had a system beforehand that worked for everyone with perhaps the exception of people with a form of colorblindness. This sounds like a problem to me as it’s not accessible to everyone, and my proposal should from what I read from your comments be fine to implement as you’d still have all the positives from the current system while allowing people who do have issues with the current system to use a more traditional method that worked fine for every prior game.

> 2535451336993939;7:
> I simply don’t understand why we can’t just have service tags and arrow icons over our team and red nameplates over our enemies when aimed at.
>
> It is the simplest fix. Allows for coatings and the new team system to shine as well as not detracting from everyone’s customisation being ruined by an outline and hue.

> 2535419441797248;8:
> We’re not going to get red vs blue because Battle Pass.
>
> So, all I want is to be able to turn off the outlines, and have coloured nametags and gamertags above the players. The outlines just don’t work for me, as I often mistook players for bots because they were both wearing blue. If it doesn’t work while all the enemy are one colour, it won’t work when enemy are different colours. I also couldn’t tell when shields were up or down at times, because of the outline. Additionally, the outline was inconsistent, and didn’t work at long distances, which doesn’t bode well for BTB.

The problem with only giving enemies red nameplates is that you still have to aim at them before you can know if you should shoot them. Otherwise you’d have red names floating around whenever an enemy is in view which would be too obvious for certain scenarios. That’s why the outline system exists, however this system fails to sometimes show these outlines while the player expects them to be there and thus the player can’t trust this system reliably.

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> > 2535463802599918;4:
> >
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> > 2535451336993939;7:
> > I simply don’t understand why we can’t just have service tags and arrow icons over our team and red nameplates over our enemies when aimed at.
> >
> > It is the simplest fix. Allows for coatings and the new team system to shine as well as not detracting from everyone’s customisation being ruined by an outline and hue.
>
>
>
> > 2535419441797248;8:
> > We’re not going to get red vs blue because Battle Pass.
> >
> > So, all I want is to be able to turn off the outlines, and have coloured nametags and gamertags above the players. The outlines just don’t work for me, as I often mistook players for bots because they were both wearing blue. If it doesn’t work while all the enemy are one colour, it won’t work when enemy are different colours. I also couldn’t tell when shields were up or down at times, because of the outline. Additionally, the outline was inconsistent, and didn’t work at long distances, which doesn’t bode well for BTB.
>
> The problem with only giving enemies red nameplates is that you still have to aim at them before you can know if you should shoot them. Otherwise you’d have red names floating around whenever an enemy is in view which would be too obvious for certain scenarios. That’s why the outline system exists, however this system fails to sometimes show these outlines while the player expects them to be there and thus the player can’t trust this system reliably.

You think I don’t know that? Do you think I want to have to come up with a compromise for a problem that didn’t exist in any previous Halo game? I literally started my comment with my disdain for the lack of red vs blue, and ended it with questioning how exactly 343i think the outlines will work for BTB. The solution is obvious, but the likelihood of it happening seems dramatically low, due to the nature of the Battle Pass. They want to sell coatings, and for players to then see them in matches — regardless of any impact on the actual experience playing the matches.

343i are shaping up a fun Halo game, but I’m not going to enjoy it for long if I have to keep second-guessing who I’m pointing a weapon at. It’s frustrating to be so close, and then have this because of the Battle Pass.

> 2535419441797248;8:
> The solution is obvious, but the likelihood of it happening seems dramatically low, due to the nature of the Battle Pass. They want to sell coatings, and for players to then see them in matches — regardless of any impact on the actual experience playing the matches.

I know this, in my original post I explicitly stated a method for them to keep these Armor Coatings as is, just a small improvement on them, and in my eyes they would be even more valuable and perhaps worth the money if they implemented it this way.

> 2535419441797248;8:
> 343i are shaping up a fun Halo game, but I’m not going to enjoy it for long if I have to keep second-guessing who I’m pointing a weapon at. It’s frustrating to be so close, and then have this because of the Battle Pass.

I feel you on that, this Test Flight genuinely had me enjoying what was there.

> 2533274801036271;3:
> I think the outlines work fine tbh.
>
> Can’t imagine they could or would implement something like this before launch. It’s nice to finally have my own Spartan in team games and not just FFA.

Honestly - I don’t even really notice the colors of the Spartans that much. I just see the outline and shoot. I thought this would be cool but after playing it a bit - it really doesn’t add anything for me. You can’t see your Spartan anywhere except at the beginning, end and when you die - so it really doesn’t matter.

> 2533274857619477;11:
> > 2535419441797248;8:
> > The solution is obvious, but the likelihood of it happening seems dramatically low, due to the nature of the Battle Pass. They want to sell coatings, and for players to then see them in matches — regardless of any impact on the actual experience playing the matches.
>
> I know this, in my original post I explicitly stated a method for them to keep these Armor Coatings as is, just a small improvement on them, and in my eyes they would be even more valuable and perhaps worth the money if they implemented it this way.

Your idea is how it effectively worked in Halo 5, with armours having different variants, with each having its own paint scheme. They would then appear differently within matches, despite still being red vs blue. This is how I hoped it would work when we first heard about it, but if they were going to implement it, they would have done. They don’t want to, because they don’t think it’ll make as much money in the Battle Pass.

> 2533274833311664;12:
> > 2533274801036271;3:
> > I think the outlines work fine tbh.
> >
> > Can’t imagine they could or would implement something like this before launch. It’s nice to finally have my own Spartan in team games and not just FFA.
>
> Honestly - I don’t even really notice the colors of the Spartans that much. I just see the outline and shoot. I thought this would be cool but after playing it a bit - it really doesn’t add anything for me. You can’t see your Spartan anywhere except at the beginning, end and when you die - so it really doesn’t matter.

Which makes the whole thing pointless. If we’re being told to aim at outlines, then we’re not looking at armour, so then there’s no point having the coatings, and thus, therefore no point having the outlines to replace red vs blue.

Enemies outlines are unnecessary, they are distracting, take away from the visuals of the game (one of the reasons why outlines are in the game), it makes harder to identify when the enemy is using overshield and ruins a stealth playstyle (for those who would like to sneak around to capture objectives for example or a sniper who would not like to be spotted that easily).

An option to turn the enemies outlines off would make any sense once you turn that off you would be at a disadvantage so why toggle that anyway, i think a better solution for that would be a system where we could see the allies service tags every time and your team are the only one outlined, with the enemies showing only their names in red when you aim at them (just like the other multiplayer games).

Customizable allies outline colors and colorblind filters for accessibility would be appreciated by colorblind people and actualy be easier for them, since the teammates are the only outlined, they wont need to differenciate the outline colors.

> 2535463802599918;4:
> In my opinion they should just simply have the outline on your team and none on the opposing. I’ve been using bright colors like lime green to highlight my own team so if the enemy team didn’t have any outline at all I could distinguish them even better than I could with a different color outline. Still I havn’t had a problem with the system as of the technical flighting.

even easier:

just have service tags over tor teams head at all times and a outline only on them when they through wall.

its really that simple. enemies dont need outlines or tags unless you use the threat sensor on them. anyone without a tag is a enemy and you shot them lol

best of both worlds

> 2533274833311664;12:
> > 2533274801036271;3:
> > I think the outlines work fine tbh.
> >
> > Can’t imagine they could or would implement something like this before launch. It’s nice to finally have my own Spartan in team games and not just FFA.
>
> Honestly - I don’t even really notice the colors of the Spartans that much. I just see the outline and shoot. I thought this would be cool but after playing it a bit - it really doesn’t add anything for me. You can’t see your Spartan anywhere except at the beginning, end and when you die - so it really doesn’t matter.

i think thats the point. those are plenty of times to see them.

> 2533274792076659;17:
> > 2533274833311664;12:
> > > 2533274801036271;3:
> > > I think the outlines work fine tbh.
> > >
> > > Can’t imagine they could or would implement something like this before launch. It’s nice to finally have my own Spartan in team games and not just FFA.
> >
> > Honestly - I don’t even really notice the colors of the Spartans that much. I just see the outline and shoot. I thought this would be cool but after playing it a bit - it really doesn’t add anything for me. You can’t see your Spartan anywhere except at the beginning, end and when you die - so it really doesn’t matter.
>
> i think thats the point. those are plenty of times to see them.

Pro Teams will most likely use this a lot too and seeing people in 3rd person during plays will be cool too.

Why don’t they just give you the option to make the enemy team a set color, like for you they are blue but for everyone else they are either default (their own color) or the color they choose to make the enemy.

Didn’t mcc do this with something? Like there was a feature they added where if you didn’t want to see something you could toggle it off but I can’t think of it for the life of me.

I love this idea, it is the perfect balance between player expression and ease of play. Great job.