Proper Way to Balance the Autos

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Brief overview of my philosophy of tuning the autos: Keep them viable at more than 10-15m, without being too easy to use at closer distances. So, here are my proposed changes – small tweaks NOT nerfs. The key here is making them viable in close-mid to mid (think br unscoped RRR range here), without turning them into ‘hard’ counters at CQC.

AR: Bring back the Beta AR. Add more spread in hip, add slightly more recoil in SS. Done. Edit: keep headshot bonuses as-is, not Beta style.

SMG: Keep current size of SS reticule, but reduce bloom (increase accuracy in SS). Increase recoil in both Hip and SS. Reduce power to 17 rounds to kill a spartan (currently 15) edited: 17 rounds seems right.

STORM RIFLE: Reduce accuracy in hip (it’s magnetism is insane – undodgeable in CQC). INCREASE accuracy in SS (to keep it a viable shield drainer in close-mid to mid range). Increase shots to kill from 12 to 13 or 14 (reduce health power; currently it is 6 shots for shields, 6 for health).

**Suppressor:**Increase power by 1-2 bullets, but compensate by taking 1-2 bullets longer for the Suppressor to reach maximum firing rate. This will make it more unique, and reward players that have awareness (to ramp up right before an encounter).

TL;DR: Well, there you have it. I think this will allow the autos to still be relevant past shotgun range, but not overpowering in CQC.

Full Rationale: So, there has been alot of discussion about the Auto balance in this game. They are more effective, relative to the sandbox, than they have ever been. In particular, the STORM RIFLE and SMG can be nearly unbeatable in close range.

There was a good thread on here a while back discussing this, and there was a great point made about ‘hard’ and ‘soft’ counters. (soft counters – weapons that have an advantage. hard counters – think almost rock paper scissors…if the person has the STORM RIFLE, and you have a pistol, you will almost certainly use at a certain range)

I believe that the Autos should be more effective than the Precisions in CQC, however I do believe they should be soft counters, not hard. However, I don’t think the autos need just a simple nerf. They need a slight tweak, and need to take a little more skill, and I think the Beta was actually on the right track.

In the Beta, smart scope actually felt much different for the autos, instead of just being a zoom. It had a higher accuracy, at the expense of reduced recoil. I think this idea was the right way to go – it allowed them to have more effective range, but de-scope allowed them to not overpower in general.

The AR was a balanced, mid-range automatic. The SMG was very overpowered however. Solution? Reduce the power of the SMG. The mechanics separating hip-fire (for close range) and smart scope (for close-mid) is great, however the power was a little too much.

Edit: Rearranged for clarity. The focus is on small tweaks to rebalance, not a black/white nerf/no nerf discussion.

2

Except for the Suppressor, these weapons are already superbly balanced.

> 2533274902478287;1:
> They are more effective, relative to the sandbox, than they have ever been. In particular, the STORM RIFLE and SMG can be nearly unbeatable in close range.

Because these weapons are finally effective doesn’t make them OP.

There’s really nothing wrong with Storm Rifle or SMG being unbeatable at close range as that’s what they are designed for.

Are you using a pistol (or precision weapon) vs. an SMG at close range? That’s your problem then for making that mistake…

The whole idea is that these weapons now have a niche in which they excel. Just because the Almighty BR/DMR/Magnum don’t win out at every range now doesn’t make other weapons OP. If they did, then they would be OP, but finally that’s no longer the case.

3

The SMG, AR and Storm Rifle should all be good in close range.

4

I disagree with you on that, I think autos are fine.

> 2533274809541057;2:
> Except for the Suppressor, these weapons are already superbly balanced.
>
>
> > 2533274902478287;1:
> > They are more effective, relative to the sandbox, than they have ever been. In particular, the STORM RIFLE and SMG can be nearly unbeatable in close range.
>
>
> Because these weapons are finally effective doesn’t make them OP.
>
> There’s really nothing wrong with Storm Rifle or SMG being unbeatable at close range as that’s what they are designed for.
>
> Are you using a pistol (or precision weapon) vs. an SMG at close range? That’s your problem then for making that mistake…
>
> The whole idea is that these weapons now have a niche in which they excel. Just because the Almighty BR/DMR/Magnum don’t win out at every range now doesn’t make other weapons OP. If they did, then they would be OP, but finally that’s no longer the case.

This on the other hand, I do agree with

5

Why should they be good? Shouldn’t their effectiveness connect with their ease of use? Why is it that the autos require minimal effort, yet are an almost guaranteed win in CQC?

6

> 2533274809541057;2:
> Except for the Suppressor, these weapons are already superbly balanced.

What do you think of the Suppressor? Too good, or not good enough?

7

I like the weapons man. They’re fine. Automatics do their purpose.

8

> 2533274805075298;3:
> The SMG, AR and Storm Rifle should all be good in close range.

Nobody is arguing otherwise.

9

Eh autos are OP.

They require very little skill to use effectively, and they do way to much damage for how easy they are to use.

i personally don’t care what they do to autos, they just need to be nerfed.

However, with it being so late into Halo 5s life cycle, we can assume 343 will do nothing. We can only hope they don’t make the same mistake again in Halo 6.

10

> 2533274809541057;2:
> Except for the Suppressor, these weapons are already superbly balanced.
>
>
> > 2533274902478287;1:
> > They are more effective, relative to the sandbox, than they have ever been. In particular, the STORM RIFLE and SMG can be nearly unbeatable in close range.
>
>
> Because these weapons are finally effective doesn’t make them OP.
>
> There’s really nothing wrong with Storm Rifle or SMG being unbeatable at close range as that’s what they are designed for.
>
> Are you using a pistol (or precision weapon) vs. an SMG at close range? That’s your problem then for making that mistake…
>
> The whole idea is that these weapons now have a niche in which they excel. Just because the Almighty BR/DMR/Magnum don’t win out at every range now doesn’t make other weapons OP. If they did, then they would be OP, but finally that’s no longer the case.

This. And not just for autos, but for every weapon in the Halo sandbox. They all have a role to fill and autos are close to mid range while the rifles are mid-long range. You should not be able to beat a guy with an SMG when you have a DMR or BR at close range.

A weapon excelling in one area does not make it OP. An OP weapon would be like if something from Warzone was taken and put into Arena, like say SNPKR Prime or even the Scourge of Fire. But because it’s in Warzone where everyone has access to that weapon or even more powerful weapons, they work in Warzone. If the Scourge of Fire was on say the Rig replacing the current plasma caster, it’d be an OP weapon and be nerfed or replaced by another weapon.

As for the suppressor, I found that it’s rather good at mid range when ambushing the enemy. Assaulting them with one like you would the SMG or storm rifle would just end badly for you but from behind, or even the side of the enemy, they can be pretty good.

There’s only two weapons I have problems with in Halo 5 and that’s the shotgun because of it’s insane range and the sword because of it’s short lunge range. Switch the two and it’d be much better.

11

> 2533274796417227;9:
> Eh autos are OP.
>
> They require very little skill to use effectively, and they do way to much damage for how easy they are to use.
>
> i personally don’t care what they do to autos, they just need to be nerfed.
>
> However, with it being so late into Halo 5s life cycle, we can assume 343 will do nothing. We can only hope they don’t make the same mistake again in Halo 6.

This is the type of complaining that caused all kinds of weapons to be nerfed to the ground in Destiny making every gun worthless. It’s quite sad to see tbh. Especially because of how balanced all the weapons seem to be right now.

12

> You should not be able to beat a guy with an SMG when you have a DMR or BR at close range.

This sort of thinking is the antithesis of a proper utility weapon.

13

> 2533274796951708;11:
> > 2533274796417227;9:
> > Eh autos are OP.
> >
> > They require very little skill to use effectively, and they do way to much damage for how easy they are to use.
> >
> > i personally don’t care what they do to autos, they just need to be nerfed.
> >
> > However, with it being so late into Halo 5s life cycle, we can assume 343 will do nothing. We can only hope they don’t make the same mistake again in Halo 6.
>
>
> This is the type of complaining that caused all kinds of weapons to be nerfed to the ground in Destiny making every gun worthless. It’s quite sad to see tbh. Especially because of how balanced all the weapons seem to be right now.

Nah, it’s not.
There is really nothing to argue here.

Autos are too powerful for their ease of use.

The pistol is the weakest utility weapon we have ever had in a halo game.

If you spawn run into someone with a storm rifle, GG.

And it’s probably one of the main reasons that this game suffers from a bad population, people don’t like being killed, by low skill weapons.

Autos should be niche weapons, I’ll agree they have been underpowered for awhile, but now they are way too good, and like I said, I hope 343 learns from this in Halo 6.

14

If an SMG or AR can’t beat a BR or DMR at long range, then a BR or DMR should not beat an SMG or AR at close range. Autos now have a niche just like the precision weapons.

15

Sorry OP but the Auto are actually useful in this game compared to past halos. The weapon balance is fine as is.

16

> 2533274978553590;6:
> > 2533274809541057;2:
> > Except for the Suppressor, these weapons are already superbly balanced.
>
>
> What do you think of the Suppressor? Too good, or not good enough?

Too weak, although I’m not entirely sure of how to make it viable without making it a clone of another weapon.

Its TTK is just too slow, and in combination with its range and auto tracking, it’s really not a viable weapon in Arena. Unless you have severe trouble aiming, picking up a Suppressor in Arena is handicapping yourself.

17

> 2533274852681222;14:
> If an SMG or AR can’t beat a BR or DMR at long range, then a BR or DMR should not beat an SMG or AR at close range. Autos now have a niche just like the precision weapons.

You’re not taking into consideration that the SMR/AR are spray weapons while the BR/DMR are precision weapons that take a reasonable amount of skill.

18

> 2533274796417227;13:
> > 2533274796951708;11:
> > > 2533274796417227;9:
> > > The pistol is the weakest utility weapon we have ever had in a halo game.

ROFL, the pistol is stronger than it has been (excluding the Halo CE Pistol) and you want to talk about it being too weak? If it is so weak then why is it as soon as the match starts everyone swaps to their pistol and starts shooting (and getting perfect kills) on players within the first 15-20 seconds of the match over closing the distance and all you hear in the match is the pop pop pop of the pistol shots going off all around the maps.

You sir are either clueless or a troll. either way. that statement made me lol

19

imo

if you nerf them and make them useless you might as well take them out of the game.

20

> 2533274796417227;9:
> Eh autos are OP.
>
> They require very little skill to use effectively, and they do way to much damage for how easy they are to use.
>
> i personally don’t care what they do to autos, they just need to be nerfed.
>
> However, with it being so late into Halo 5s life cycle, we can assume 343 will do nothing. We can only hope they don’t make the same mistake again in Halo 6.

If they are nerfed then they will fall back into being useless weapon slot holders…

> 2533274794648158;12:
> > You should not be able to beat a guy with an SMG when you have a DMR or BR at close range.
>
>
> This sort of thinking is the antithesis of a proper utility weapon.

DMR and BR aren’t exactly utility weapons. They are more so precision weapons. They excel at medium to long range. An SMG is only useful at close range and nothing else. If it didn’t easily kill at close range, why bother utilizing it, especially if it’s no better than any other weapon.

Why use a specialized weapon, if it’s not even good in its specialized role?

> 2533274970658419;5:
> Why should they be good? Shouldn’t their effectiveness connect with their ease of use? Why is it that the autos require minimal effort, yet are an almost guaranteed win in CQC?

They are easy to use because they are full auto and used at close range. DMR’s and BR’s and Magnum are harder to use at close range because they are single shot/burst fire. They will be inherently harder to use at close range…