Proper critique and feedback From a Designer

> 2535473640312220;19:
> > 2535461330364523;18:
> > No offense, but what do you mean by I’m a designer? That could mean you design the latest version of Ikea furniture? Just saying that doesn’t add extra credibility to your post. You do offer some constructive criticism though.
>
> Hey. Design isnt a thing humans made. Its the fundamental nature of existance. We only leanr to understand it. Once you figure that out. You can use it to create anything. Yes anything. Though depends on how deep you can think. There are always branches and brances to explore and touch upon.
>
> Ikea furniture… yes I can. My specialisation was product deisgn. That includes all manufacturing related things man has ever made.

What do you mean by “was” product design? Are you not designing anymore?

w

My critique as a Sr. Financial Analyst for one of the largest banks in the world. Money was lost on Thursday, how can we make this up? I would have to create a model, but I would guess that demo caused maybe $50M in lost sales from a variety of things. That estimate is on the low end, 343 can still turn that number around though.

> KnavishPlum169 Wrote:
> So I have to say that I really liked this post and though that it was very well thought out and written. I personally really like all the talk in the first post as someone who is majoring in Digital Media & Design/Game Design. I don’t entirely agree with some of the thoughts about game-play and adding the upgrades, but that is just my opinion.

Thank you for appreciating the effort. I am glad people are finding it as I intended. About your opinions, I agree and completely accept that everyone can have differences in this. What works for me might not work for you and vice-versa. No need to harass or insult others for this. Though I would like to hear you opinions on gameplay and upgrades : )

> KnavishPlum169 Wrote:
> My main issue is with this assessment of the aesthetics. While I agree with keeping a sense of familiarity and also don’t like the weapon designs shown in the demo, I feel like this mindset constricts what can be tried when evolving a design. This kinda feels like the blanket statement of “its not Halo”. With this mindset, I feel like we wouldn’t have gotten designs like the Reach AR, Halo 4 BR or heck… The Banished. Designs that still hold the same feel, yet entirely new and different looks. The same could be said for how armor has changed between games. Ignoring 4 and 5, Reach armor bears only a passing resemblance to that of CE or 3, yet it’s seen by many as the best. I understand the broader message of keeping things familiar, yet feel that approach can only hurt future design choices and evolution.

Okay. So when we talk about aesthetics there are 2 ways to go about it.
1. Objective or General: This applies to almost everyone and works regardless of culture and experience.
2. Subjective or person specific: This applies to case by case basis and takes into consideration things like culture, personal experiences, memory, geographical conditions, travel history, and ability of person to process and understand emotions and feelings.

With that said. I want to tell you that I do not say that change is bad. “More often then not people like to stick the the known devil then to follow an unknown angle” (Heard similar words said by Sadhguru). I agree that sticking to one aesthetics kill or severs the ability to evolve over time. LIke you mentioned Halo 4, 5, R.

This is a rather complicated topic to explore so. I want to avoid getting to details. Aesthetics are meant to be felt. Not written down. I personally was a logical person when I joined college. I was so so bad at emotions and aesthetics. It what there I learned that this can not be learned by reading or watching something. I comes and develops by feeling it.

Basically speaking there are various ways to go about it. There is no right or wrong. It really just depends on context.
Rasa is in very diluted meaning aesthetics. It originates from Sanskrit work “natyashastra”. There are 9 rasas. each translates to various emotions such as love, fear, anger, etc. ( I dont want to get into the details. because. paragraph above this one )

Staying true to original and preserving layout does retain original “rasa” while changing away from it changes the “rasa”. Both has benefits and pitfalls really just depends on the context. I personally dont want to comment on what should 343 do. This is their call since its their product. (There is no right or wrong remember)

So yes I agree with your statement that it limits creativity and explorations. But my question to you is. You live in amazon forests with your tribe with culture specific to that place. Do you need Futuristic architecture there? you will really be excited about it but you don’t need it. you might want it…

> 2533274801176260;10:
> I really liked your, well, it’s pretty much an essay.
> Could you also give your thoughts on the vividness of the environments, or lack thereof?
> Moving trees, grass, etc. Big deal or no?

Hey So finally I got time to address you. I am actually very happy to.

Lets go:

So its again about aesthetics. Original CE had very little moving foliage. That single element about that game. does matter in the overall presentation. Think of it like a recipe. It will come out tasting same only if the same ingredients are used in the same proportions and by the same person. You change one ingredient or vary its proportions. the taste changes very so slightly or more.
Now apply this same logic to aesthetics. If Infinite’s Art direction is deliberate about no moving plants, Then I am really impressed by the guy who worked on this thought. If its there due to lack of work on it. that is a different topic as it will be touched up later on.

Now about moving and winds based plants.

Yes you are correct. Our brain does record and understand small elements subconsciously. Like movement in wind or by collisions. If it does not happen our brains sort of freaks out. “that’s not natural !”

Yet Art direction is supposed to give you a certain feeling. If this is deliberate. Then this just is the ingredients original quantity and proportion of the original game. You might light the taste or not. It really depends.

Again there is no right or wrong answer to this. Its only preference and art direction.

> 2535461330364523;21:
> > 2535473640312220;19:
> > > 2535461330364523;18:
> > > No offense, but what do you mean by I’m a designer? That could mean you design the latest version of Ikea furniture? Just saying that doesn’t add extra credibility to your post. You do offer some constructive criticism though.
> >
> > Hey. Design isnt a thing humans made. Its the fundamental nature of existance. We only leanr to understand it. Once you figure that out. You can use it to create anything. Yes anything. Though depends on how deep you can think. There are always branches and brances to explore and touch upon.
> >
> > Ikea furniture… yes I can. My specialisation was product deisgn. That includes all manufacturing related things man has ever made.
>
> What do you mean by “was” product design? Are you not designing anymore?

This is going off topic. Against forum rules. Lets have this discussion over private messages check you Inbox. I will sent a text after this.

> 2535473640312220;20:
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> > Response wasn’t good. Pandemic can’t be an excuse since everyone is going through this but graphics don’t look as bad as infinite did.
> >
> > Beta could get cancelled.
> >
> > Not a great response to graphic. I’m worried on what final product will look now.
>
> Yes I agree with you. There is alot of uncertainty in a part of the community.

Yeah and when it was played on pc. If it was played on xbox one, I’d have no problem with it but pc and series x needs to be better. But I’m still hyped for the game.

I also want to say this, I have seen the Halo Infinite gameplay footage. I enjoy watching the Halo Infinite gameplay footage, but I also have problems watching the gameplay footage. I think the graphics in the Halo Infinite need some improvements. Does this ruin my excitement for the upcoming Halo Infinite? No, it did not ruin my excitement. I am still looking forward to play Halo Infinite. I am hoping that 343 Industries will fix the graphics in the new Halo video game.

Thank you for this actually sensible critique. You voiced many of the things I’ve thought, and even expressed in my own forum post, but clearer.

> 2535434101253033;28:
> I also want to say this, I have seen the Halo Infinite gameplay footage. I enjoy watching the Halo Infinite gameplay footage, but I also have problems watching the gameplay footage. I think the graphics in the Halo Infinite need some improvements. Does this ruin my excitement for the upcoming Halo Infinite? No, it did not ruin my excitement. I am still looking forward to play Halo Infinite. I am hoping that 343 Industries will fix the graphics in the new Halo video game.

Hehe ;D I am excited to. I feel same as you. Just the small graphics issues but they can get fixed.

> 2533274981690409;29:
> Thank you for this actually sensible critique. You voiced many of the things I’ve thought, and even expressed in my own forum post, but clearer.

Thank you :slight_smile: can you message me your post link in personal message?

> 2535473640312220;19:
> > 2535461330364523;18:
> > No offense, but what do you mean by I’m a designer? That could mean you design the latest version of Ikea furniture? Just saying that doesn’t add extra credibility to your post. You do offer some constructive criticism though.
>
> Hey. Design isnt a thing humans made. Its the fundamental nature of existance. We only leanr to understand it. Once you figure that out. You can use it to create anything. Yes anything. Though depends on how deep you can think. There are always branches and brances to explore and touch upon.
>
> Ikea furniture… yes I can. My specialisation was product deisgn. That includes all manufacturing related things man has ever made.
>
> That does add credibility. As a designer. Your way of looking at work suddenly changes. Then there is no right wrong. No good bad. Everything is fluidic. As designers you can see things many people just are not aware of.
>
> More questions? Spendid! I would be happy to assist. DM me

the philosophical school of asthetics
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The youtuber “halo hunter” applied some video editing to increase the contrast, saturation and change the s-curve in the presented gameplay. this makes the whole game look less muddy, less platicy and greatly increases the visual awe. It also better connects the cartoony style of the characters with the scenery.

Halo Infinite Gameplay Demo Reshaded

Halo Infinite Gameplay Demo Touch Up

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> **This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.***Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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> > 2535473640312220;1:
> > Hello 343 Staff and Halo fan,
> >
> > I am a product designer. I was trained in aesthetics, System Thinking and Design. I want to start of by saying that "Demo showed should not be judge critically on small details as they are very likely subject to change."I am going to follow this format for the whole post as well as subtopics:
> > Objective [ to ]SubjectiveBefore we begin this feedback I want to say a few things as they are important in their subtle ways:
"Design is like a fundamental principle. It applies everywhere. Physical and non physical are just manifestations of design. Design is no something Humans made. It is the nature of existence." -Experience and Design Education
To 343,**I would like to give this feedback after thinking about it last night and this morning. The reveal, personally was underwhelming However I will as a designer be objective in this feedback and keep my personal beliefs and biases away.
> >
> > The Gameplay as promised takes its inspiration of Halo CE. It is not a direct copy paste which is a good thing. Else its just an reskinned CE.
> > There is promise in this new game, I feel that the direction is alright considering changing industry. There are few nicks and dinks here and there but that can be worked on.
> >
> > Given the pandemic, I can understand how that can have impacted the workflow, being a designer myself I can understand this form personal experience of similar circumstances. What we got to see was very unpolished and need a lot of aesthesis refinements.
> >
> > The themes behind most aesthetics are well in sync with music and visuals. Most is a keyword.
> >
> > Overall I feel it was a very good attempt given the circumstances. We all should appreciate the effort. There is definitely potential in This game if intent is worded and delivered to the audience properly. This is a very critical position. I am sure you are well aware of it. Please be careful, mindful and sensitive to your audience. This is very likely the last chance to your team from a lot of people.
> >
> > I wish you all good luck, work hard, make your last shot worth it!
> >
> > Now here comes the big part. I want to address a big concern a lot of people have. Its the aesthesis. Many people have difficulty putting in words exactly what’s off. I will put it in proper words to the best of my abilities. I hope you all will find words for the weirdness you felt yesterday.****1. Aesthetics (Biggest flaws in the demo)****Plastic lookingLet me start with the feel that people are talking about. What is meant by plastic looking when clearly the elites armor had gloss and shine. [ I personally felt this ]When people say plastic they are referring to the characteristics of plastics. Monotonous, Blunt, dull, glossy, flat, no detail ( I know I repeated similar words but this is also for fan who are not designers or strong with feelings and words perhaps )
> >
> > The art direction is good. Halo had this cartoony look. However what you are seeing and thinking looks flat. It is due to lack of texture details. Its not that graphics are completely bad. Just an part of it is wrong
> >
> > The game we saw yesterday. Its presentation relies of textures which are not detail enough. (Or stream compression made it got lost.) However it does not happen to old games… so… It cant be this reason entirely.
> >
> > another important point to add to this has to do with materials and textures and how they are handled. I might be wrong here. I am welcome to suggestions and corrections on this. The older games used textures with a lot of detail on them. Now we use materials with properties which add details like plug and play mechanics. The textures are either non existent or have very little detail.
> > The engine reads these plug and play elements are renders them realtime. That is, blunt flat texture + plug and play to enhance it
> > This shift of materials over texture is one reason why the aesthesis suddenly looks different. and plastic as they are not handled properly.
> > **Please address the materials if that is the case here. They don’t behave properly. They seem out of place to people because they are so perfect, spotless, perfect. This is not how it is supposed to look. Specially brute weapons. Also what about the hexagon pattern on covenant weapons.**Second part to do with it is lighting. Which I will address below.
> >
> > LightingLighting plays a very curial role in the entire presentation. It affects how the materials will behave and look. Currently If I am correct there is GI or global illumination. This is not like shining a torch at something where intensity will be high and so will the effects like shine and shadows. It applies like sunlight. Light bounces around and illuminates all side to varying degrees. Even the shadows. This is a complicated area to access for me as I lack the in depth knowledge.
> > My only feedback here would be to readjust it. I needs to hint of bight sunlight, better shadows.
> >
> > ShadowsSo there is GI by no shadows. That is non sensical. Characters and environment needs shadows and that was clearly lacking in the demo. Not much to add or explain here.
> > But just don’t underestimate how big of a difference proper shadows can make (Cough Halo 3 did it better)
> >
> > HUDAlright time to take you all to my class. During my design training we had a class on familiarity and newness in new products. So in very essence it means that whenever we make something new, it should have resemblance to past, just enough so people can relate and should also have new stuff so it doesn’t look the same are last one.
> > Also Iconic should be preserved.
> >
> > I feel shield is better positioned in top center rather then CE and 2 Styles. It feels more natural and intuitive. So I agree with the change from Halo 3 onwards.
> >
> > Weapons and bullets counters. They are not alright. They have disappeared almost entirely
>
> I like how just because you are a designer that your feedback is “proper”. I said everything you said and I’m not a designer . It doesn’t take a professional to see how -Yoink- this game is
>

: )

It is wonderful to hear that you could do without being a designer. Unfortunately design isnt something artificial we created. That you cant be a designer if you don’t go to college or took a degree. Nature is the greatest designer. I am sure we never ask nature to show its degree do we?
You are a designer to an extent yourself. Design isnt synthetic. You dont have to do it all the time. It happen all the time. Whether you know it or not. So yes even you are a designer to an extent.

Adding designer to the topic is for a certain population of people. Those who find it valuable.

I hope that answers you quarry ; )

Not trying to provoke you but as designers we often get exposure to topics many people dont. However if a person is naturally inspired to know more to do more. Like great minds. People like elon musk, neil D. Tyson, leonardo da vinci. They will come across those topic anyhow.

In short it all varies. It isnt all black and white

> 2533274945422049;32:
> > 2535473640312220;19:
> > > 2535461330364523;18:
> > > No offense, but what do you mean by I’m a designer? That could mean you design the latest version of Ikea furniture? Just saying that doesn’t add extra credibility to your post. You do offer some constructive criticism though.
> >
> > Hey. Design isnt a thing humans made. Its the fundamental nature of existance. We only leanr to understand it. Once you figure that out. You can use it to create anything. Yes anything. Though depends on how deep you can think. There are always branches and brances to explore and touch upon.
> >
> > Ikea furniture… yes I can. My specialisation was product deisgn. That includes all manufacturing related things man has ever made.
> >
> > That does add credibility. As a designer. Your way of looking at work suddenly changes. Then there is no right wrong. No good bad. Everything is fluidic. As designers you can see things many people just are not aware of.
> >
> > More questions? Spendid! I would be happy to assist. DM me
>
> the philosophical school of asthetics
> <p></p>

Haha. I actually really enjoy talking to people about ideas and topic that are deep and insightful. I am just getting no one to talk to due to corona… thats why i get overflowing on forums or any chance I get else where.

People living near me dont share a passion to talk about ideas or bigger nature of things so I do enjoy moments of conversations with people looking forward to hear

> 2533274945422049;33:
> The youtuber “halo hunter” applied some video editing to increase the contrast, saturation and change the s-curve in the presented gameplay. this makes the whole game look less muddy, less platicy and greatly increases the visual awe. It also better connects the cartoony style of the characters with the scenery.
>
> Halo Infinite Gameplay Demo ReshadedHalo Infinite Gameplay Demo Touch Up

It sure look better yes. However on mobile its quality was capped to 480p. Its sleep time so i will check tomorrow on PC and get back to you