Progression Feedback: Why Halo Infinite Progression and XP should Focus on Medals

Hey ZHRPO, please make sure to tag this (battlepass, progression) so that it will be seen in those categories :slight_smile:

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That’s a great idea. Tie it to in-game performance, promote participation (kills have less weight in non-kill-focused modes) and still give 100 or so XP per every game or two.

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I believe that Infinite’s progression should incorporate more features from Reach’s XP system. For example, in Reach, you got Credits for killing enemies and obtaining medals. this was made apparent when the “+6 cR” appeared at the bottom of your screen each kill. It made kills feel all the more satisfying and rewarding. This would occur for medals as well. I think Infinite should incorporate XP gain per kill, assist, and medal on top of the challenge system. Maybe 5 XP per kill and 3 XP per assist, with a double kill medal being 10 XP for reference. I think it would help solve the per-match XP problem while rewarding players for playing well and helping the team without completely butchering the challenge system.

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This is an absolutely great idea! The current system WILL be the death of Infinite. I’ve played 25h since Monday and I’m level 13, I have nothing else to play for and started playing other games lately cause there’s no point in playing aside from being fun, (sadly I have other games with timeframes that demand my attention more than to have fun). And the last 5h of the game I didn’t even have that much fun cause I only focused on the callenges (kill 10 with hydra or kill with a grenade as passenger) I didn’t even check what mode I was playing and didn’t even care cause that doesn’t matter right now at all, only the challenges matter.

SOLUTION:
THE way to fix the game is simply to reward the player for playing well the game! I would simply say keep the challenges for EXTRA XP but the main income would be medal XP and/or grabbing the final personal score from the match and dividing it by 2 that way you’re rewarded for playing the objectives and/or being hyper-lethal but also doing around 2 challenges would be about equal XP an average player would get at the end of each game.

Hope this helps and tell me what you think

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I think your criticisms have merit and your suggestions lean into the feature that has always differentiated Halo from other shooters (medals).

My opinion is not a popular one, I think people are far too focused on the progression system as though it will make or break Halo Infinite - it won’t. The games I poured countless hours into in my adolescence and onward have never motivated me to play with a progression system, some of them didn’t even have a progression system outside of a matchmaking rank.

Personally, I like how the challenges challenge (haha) you to use weapons and play in playlists outside of your comfort zone or preferred playstyle. I haven’t had an issue with players in my games seeking out particular weapons, at least not that I’ve noticed, and I could not care less if they did. The only playlist where I feel as though everyone should be trying their best to work together and win is Arena. Quick Play and BTB are for having fun and I frequently pick up the strange and perhaps not so good weapons out of curiosity more so than to complete any particular challenge.

You mentioned that you “…enjoy the satisfaction of being rewarded for (your) time…” and so do I, but I think we experience this differently. I’ve never felt rewarded by a battle pass or progression system. I feel rewarded when I earn a higher rank, when I perform better than I usually do in a given match, and more than anything when I win a particular match. I agree that the medals are a massive part of the fun in Halo games, but I’m much more interested in a lifetime Service Record detailing my entire career’s stats like Halo 2 and Halo 3 had than the Battle Pass being faster to level.

Is the Battle Pass and the slow progress on it a little unsatisfying? Yes, but I don’t play Halo to level up a battle pass, I play it to have fun, “get gud” and the gameplay is its own reward. While Rocket League has a robust and satisfying progression system I don’t continue playing for anything other than leveling up my skills and progressing in ranked playlists. They could remove all progression systems from Rocket League along with all cosmetics and I’d still have poured the 1,000+ hours I have into that masterpiece of a game.

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I agree, and I just want to emphasize my overall enjoyment of the game in its current state. I find myself spending countless hours playing this game for pure enjoyment and that is a very good thing. The physical gameplay is in a very good place, and It will just get better. And I am the same way with rocket league, purely competitive and I do not even buy the pass unless I happen to have the credits. The main issue is not necessarily the battle pass and the speed at which you progress through it, but it’s just the need for an overhaul in general. Yes the game plays great and there are some who do not care for cosmetics or rewards, but there is also a large sum of people who want to be able to progress and “flex” their efforts. The reason this is a serious issue is that it affects the longevity of the game as well as the player count. Players will eventually grow tired of playing matches over and over without any type of incentive. The game still has that “New Car Smell” so it is definitely hard to determine if anyone will be feeling the same way in early 2022 as they do now.

TL;DR

The game is great and there is plenty of reasons to continue playing, but who is to say that we will be saying this later down the road. A progression overhaul is not necessary for some, but it can not negatively impact the game in any significant way.

You are forgetting the flaws in implementing that.

I would promote extending the games to farm medals, something similar happened in Halo 5 groups, one group dominated the other team to do those things, and besides not everyone gets medals, i have friends who are bad and they tell me that they get 1 to 2 medals per game and sometimes.

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The source post of this thread is terrific and accurate. The hotfix updates 343 just released are a VERY small step in the right direction but it’s honestly not even close to enough.

I truly hate to beat a dead horse, and I know this isn’t a simple fix, but the progression/unlockables system needs a complete overhaul.

XP absolutely needs to be rewarded in more ways. Medals is a great idea. Wins is another good idea. There should be some incentive for performance, not just completing (often) unenjoyable challenges.

Additionally, I still strongly believe that there has to be unlockables outside of the battle pass, similar to COD’s weapon camos. Maybe 500 kills with the battle rifle unlocks a weapon skin, 1000 kills with the battle rifle unlocks a charm, and so on. I believe this kind of weapon progression and customization is vitally important to the long-term health of the game.

Thank you for your consideration, 343.

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The challenges are a great way to earn a weekly reward as well as some extra XP, but it just cannot function as a standalone system. They changed the system a bit today where you earn 50XP per match indefinitely, and it is a welcome change, but hopefully a temporary one. Currently, with the challenge system, you progress at a decent pace until you complete the weekly challenges. At that point, you hit a wall and have no efficient way to earn XP. You combine this with the lack of in-game XP, and you don’t have much drive to continue playing. Just to be clear, I really enjoy this game and I still play despite completing the weekly challenges, but It is frustrating to be putting in the same amount of effort as before and not being rewarded for it.

Now on to your solution:
I really like this solution. I may be wrong I actually even think that medals and scores go hand and hand (medals may add a score multiplier of sorts), So it might could be a combination of sorts. But Win/Lose XP should be implemented as well. They would probably have to make all of the XP values pretty small with such a system, but I would rather earn my progression through skill rather than through a set challenge.

Thank you so much for joining the discussion! The community has so many great thoughts and feedback for 343I and I really hope they look at all of them and brainstorm a potential solution.

That’s the beauty of the system though. Each medal could be tweaked and adjusted to prevent any type of farming issue. And when I say that it should focus on medals, I mean that that should be the main XP gain system. Other ways of XP gain could be implemented as well (i.e. Kills, Score, Wins, etc). With any XP system, there is going to be a best way/mode to earn XP and people might try to exploit that, but small tweaks and changes could lessen their abilities.

Thank you for leaving a comment! I am happy to hear all angles of this discussion to get to something that could be a potentially polished fix.

Yes, this system needs a complete overhaul and a “skill-based” reward system would be a very welcome addition. It may even be something that we could see down the road of this game. I would imagine there being Unlockables for completing the campaign at certain difficulties or with certain skulls ( Just a wild guess). I think that these changes could be implemented over time, adding depth to the progression system with every new addition.

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100% needs a way to earn through actually in game performance. being challenge only is too limiting and rarely insights good gameplay from the player and running out of challenges and not having any real way to gain xp except from the measly 50 xp per match you don’t even care about winning is already putting me of this game.

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That’s the thing if you make it meaningful people will exploit it. What you say sounds good on paper but it is a nightmare to implement it, think about it, imagine that each action generates xp you generate a way where one player that is not very skilled go slow and others exploit it.

Do you think they hadn’t thought about it in all these years if they are devs, there is a reason why they have this system.

Progression systems have been in games for quite some time. There are going to be players that progress quicker than others. Even in the current system, less skilled players progress slower. Probably MUCH slower than skilled ones due to the difficulty of some of the challenges. If you are less skilled, then it would make sense that you would not progress as fast as those who are more skilled. Games like Call of duty, Titanfall, Rocket League, and so many others Implement an “earned” XP system similar to the one that I have described. MCC even has a similar progression system.

I disagree that it would be a nightmare to implement. Playing in a skillful manner is not really exploitation. Even if you run around the map performing a ninja kill on every player you see, that’s still not exploitation, that’s just earned XP through something that is not easy to perform.

I have a feeling that one of the reasons the current system is implemented is due to monetization. We have seen actual progression systems in past halo’s and it has never been a hot-button issue.

Also as a bit of a side note, Earning XP through medals and kills and such would probably not give you Ludacris amounts of XP, but just enough to encourage players to earn it.

You just don’t understand it, it is not a normal progression of a game, it is a battle pass for seasons with premium payment of curse its about monetization you think the game is going to keep alive with only desire ? :joy:

:joy: so you are a dev or the finance guy well you should call them, you find the solution that they couldn’t in 7 years

This specific discussion is over progression as a whole, not just the battle pass or premium content. Like many other games, XP progression is one and the same with the battle pass and an actual career progression system (which is potentially said to be coming in the “Tech Preview 2 Outcomes” Official blog post*).

Linking XP to medals and in-game actions have been implemented in numerous shooters over the last decade and have even been implemented in premium battle passes.

To give you an example, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (2009) had a similar progression system to what I have described in my initial post. I will provide you a link** if you wish to verify my information.

Even in the Halo Universe, there have been similar systems. Halo reach had a system in place to earn credits that were based around in-game actions. There will be a link*** included for this as well.

This type of progression has been Implemented countless times, and even to some degree in past Halo titles. I would assume that Implementing this would be somewhat similar to implementing a scoring system, which is also seen in Halo titles (Including Halo Infinite).

I would love to hear your reasoning behind why you think that this would be a nightmare to implement, as well as why it would be too exploitable. Maybe a constructive argument about these implementations would lead to a better overall solution.

Links ( ADD “h” at the beginning):

*Tech Preview 2 Outcomes Link:
ttps://www.halowaypoint.com/news/tech-preview-2-outcomes

**Call of Duty Progression System Link:
ttps://callofduty.fandom.com/wiki/XP

***Halo Reach Credit System Link: ttps://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Commendations_(Halo:_Reach)#Multiplayer_Commendations