Problems and Solutions - Community Thread

Games Other Halo
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Hello Waypoint community. I’m making this post today to gather a collective idea of the largest problems in the game, and what the community thinks would be the best way to solve them. For the first while I’ll simply be asking for you to generate a list of problems, however as time goes on I’d like people to start offering solutions as well.

The three posts below this one will be reserved for problems and solutions.

Now before we begin, I’d like to start off by saying everyone’s opinion is more than welcome. Whether you are a fan of Infinity or Classic, Casual or competitive, or even if you spend all your time playing nothing but infection, everyone’s opinion is welcome. Please be respectful of the fact that other people will notice problems where you may not see them, or may not consider them. Try to view all posts from as many perspectives as possible, so we can better come to an agreement and or/compromise.

The idea here is to come up with a compromise for as many problems in the game as we can. By all means, go in-depth in the game mechanics if you must, and I implore those who disagree to try a different point of view to understand what the other person is saying.

By sitting down and generating a list of problems and solutions, we may be able to give 343i a better idea of what exactly the community dislikes, and what may be the best course of action for future games. Hopefully, this will be a good place to check for community feedback.

I’ll begin by writing down a few of my own problems with the game. I wouldn’t say they’re the biggest problems, but they do impact my fun severely.

Problems:

  • Map Design
  • Personal Ordinance
  • Jetpack
  • Plasma Grenades in Loadouts
  • Lack of “Local Only” search option.
  • Mantis
  • Aim Assistance - Stickey Reticule - Bullet Magnetism (Beam Rifle especially needs a nerf, along with the railgun).
  • Scattershot is inconsistent in damage output (sometimes it’s an instant kill, sometimes it barely does any damage).
  • Objective Auto-Pickup (flag and oddball).
  • Armor Abilities (to an extent).
  • Lack of Ranked and Social Split
  • Join in Progress

EDIT: Also, if you agree with a problem or solution, I suggest thanking the original poster so we can gauge the size of the problem or the quality of the solution.

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Reserved for more problems.

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Reserved for Solutions.

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Reserved for more solutions.

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Personal Ordnance leads to a massive snowball effect. I can combine personal ordnance with map pickups to gain a ton of advantage over my opponents, which allows me to earn even more ordnance, which in turn allows me to contend even more map pickups.

I feel the game should either have just personal ordnance or have just map pickups, but not both. Even so, I don’t feel our sandbox is well designed for personal ordnance, having eight rockets in play at once would be pretty hectic. Should just be removed.

It’s not hard to see where map design went wrong. For one, maps barely have any elevation. I’m not saying every map needs to be like prisoner, but most maps essentially only have one or two levels to them. With no elevation or trick jumps, it removes major aspects of the game like controlling the high ground or out-juking your opponent. There’s too much of a “Paintball Field” mentality going on here, with flat maps that consist of lazy cover.

Another area map design went wrong is maps rarely force players into close encounters, where strafe is the most effective. This is partially due to the map design itself, it’s also due to lack of incentive for people to move around.

Most maps have massive sightlines where I can just sit back and shoot at people with the DMR and even the BR. If I’m teamshotting I can kill them quickly, but if not my gun is slow enough to the point they can sprint to cover at long range. Not only does this hamper map movement, it also lowers the power of the individual.

I’d like to see sprint removed and a focus brought back to smaller, more elevated maps for 4v4 play as I believe the current map design is a direct result of the addition of sprint.

There are two main problems with jetpack. The first being it directly effects map design and is too strong on elevated maps. The latter being it gives someone a direct combat advantage. In fact, jetpack can be used akin to armor lock. If I jetpack, I’m invincible to rockets and other projectiles. I can also jetpack above a doorway if someone is chasing me, leaving them at a massive disadvantage and forcing them to wait until I land, buying myself time.

Jetpack should be a map pickup, it’s not something players should spawn with. People say “Jetpack leaves you exposed in midair” but to be frank only bad players use it in such a fashion that it puts them at a disadvantage. Good players really know how to abuse it.

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Plasma grenades
Problem: They ruin both vehicular and close combat game play. Have far to much magnetism and on top of this we can spawn with up to 3. Players tend to use them as a primary weapon and are tossed far too often.

Solution: Seen as 50% of players use them, I’m assuming they won’t be removed. Instead lower magnatism and reduce the amount possible to start with from 2 to 1. Also lower the damage output to the Warthog.

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> Plasma grenades
> Problem: They ruin both vehicular and close combat game play. Have far to much magnetism and on top of this we can spawn with up to 3. Players tend to use them as a primary weapon and are tossed far too often.
>
> Solution: Seen as 50% of players use them, I’m assuming they won’t be removed. Instead lower magnatism and reduce the amount possible to start with from 2 to 1. Also lower the damage output to the Warthog.

I agree that they’re a problem, but I’m not sure about the solution. I personally think having them on map to promote movement might be a better plan. Even if we lower magnetism (do they have magnetism? I’ve never actually tested that…) players will still abuse them for suicide sticks.

You’re right though, they probably won’t be removed, so I suppose it’s a good solution should 343i choose to keep them in loadouts.

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> > Plasma grenades
> > Problem: They ruin both vehicular and close combat game play. Have far to much magnetism and on top of this we can spawn with up to 3. Players tend to use them as a primary weapon and are tossed far too often.
> >
> > Solution: Seen as 50% of players use them, I’m assuming they won’t be removed. Instead lower magnatism and reduce the amount possible to start with from 2 to 1. Also lower the damage output to the Warthog.
>
> I agree that they’re a problem, but I’m not sure about the solution. I personally think having them on map to promote movement might be a better plan. Even if we lower magnetism (<mark>do they have magnetism? I’ve never actually tested that…)</mark> players will still abuse them for suicide sticks.
>
> You’re right though, they probably won’t be removed, so I suppose it’s a good solution should 343i choose to keep them in loadouts.

If possible to remove them, my 2014 will be made.

As for magnetism, I don’t entirely know. I constantly hear people complaining about the magnetism (I’m assuming they are referring to the situations where the plasma grenade hits the floor about a meter away from yourself and magically jumps onto your body regardless of the angle it hit the floor at)

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The Mantis

While it is as sure as hell fun to use, it’s a toy coated in lead paint. The main issues with the Mantis revolve more or less around its implementation into most maps rather than its function.

On Ragnarok, the Mantis removes the elements of map control that Vahalla demonstrated so well. Instead of the central ridge being a power position, it is now a no-man’s-land that punishes those who sit upon it with being destroyed by a Mantis. Most of the map’s strategic flank points, such as the caves and lower valley, are gated off by the Mantis stomping anyone that dares to use them. Even worse, the moment any Mantis crosses the center of the map, it is effectively and almost immediately destroyed by the other team. Essentially, the Mantis breaks map control and adds nothing but staleness to the map.

On Meltdown, the Mantis does a similar dilemma. While studying the map’s structure, I noticed that Meltdown is very well thought out in terms of map flow. Mancannons and caves and teleporters send players to strategic chokepoints in the map, and the two leveled figure 8 shape allows for perfect BTB combat. However, when I played the map in matchmaking, I noticed that all of the benefits in Meltdown were shattered by a single villain: the Mantis. As with Ragnarok, the Mantis effectively cuts the map into two halves and forces the battle into just a single engagement on the central bridge. The other elements of the map, especially those that would provide strategic influence if utilized, are either ignored, or crammed with people that want to escape the Mantises that rage in battle outside. And once again, the sheer moment the Mantis steps across that bridge or emerges from the cover behind the cliffs that lead to each base, it is destroyed.

The Mantis is a standalone object that butchers map flow. And what really bugs me about it is the fact that it plays the same role of a tank, but the tank happens to do it much better. And even worse, I’m imagining that without the Mantis, we would have had an actual UNSC Air vehicle - not a reskinned tank walking on two legs.

Solution

Either remove the Mantis from all maps, or place it in the center of the map so that it can add to map control rather than destroy it.

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> As for magnetism, I don’t entirely know. I constantly hear people complaining about the magnetism (I’m assuming they are referring to the situations where the plasma grenade hits the floor about a meter away from yourself and magically jumps onto your body regardless of the angle it hit the floor at)

Hmm… well I suppose I’ll jump onto Halo 4 tomorrow and test it out then.

> The Mantis

The question here is this: Is the Mantis the problem or is it the maps?

Like you pointed out, Ragnarok was never designed for the mantis. In fact it didn’t even support the Scorpion. At most it supported the banshee and a couple of hogs, so it’s really not a big surprise that the mantis didn’t play well with it. As you said, it’s a tank on two legs.

I would say Meltdown wasn’t designed with the mantis in mind either, although I haven’t played enough BTB there to go into specifics.

So my question remains: Was it the Mantises fault or the maps? Could the mantis still work if we re-design the maps, or would it be too big a hindrance to map design akin to things like jetpack?

I personally wouldn’t be able to answer this question. BTB maps aren’t my forte.

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Whoops, double post.

Sorry moderators. Not a bump post, posted a reply when I meant to edit. My bad.

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Didn’t you make this thread like, 6 months ago? It feels like I’ve already replied to this thread.

Anyways, one problem is the lack of a local only search option. A solution is to include a local only search option.

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> Didn’t you make this thread like, 6 months ago? It feels like I’ve already replied to this thread.
>
>
> Anyways, one problem is the lack of a local only search option. A solution is to include a local only search option.

To piggyback off this idea:

Many people have been dissatisfied with players backing out of the voting lobby, as well as the problems created by JiP.

Problem:
After a game many players naturally want to check their stats and then leave. The short window between postgame and the creation of a new voting lobby means that many players quit out of the voting lobby. This often leads to games with one team being severely handicapped because the game maxes out each team in the voting lobby, rather than dividing the existing players (ex. 5 players in lobby = 4 vs 1). Since JiP takes time to locate players and shoe-horn them into the game, the handicapped team can quickly fall behind before new players are added to even out the match. New players find their team losing and quit which only leads to more JiP and more players quitting a losing team.

Solution:
The wait time before beginning to searching for new players should be lengthened to between 10-20 seconds.
The issues of JiP can be dealt with by adding an enable/disable option in a serach options menu. With JiP enabled a player would be eligable to be joined into matches that are already active, as well as those that haven’t started. With JiP disabled the game would only search for matches that have not yet entered the voting lobby.

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> So my question remains: Was it the Mantises fault or the maps? Could the mantis still work if we re-design the maps, or would it be too big a hindrance to map design akin to things like jetpack?

The Mantis is at fault, map design won’t help it. The main problem with the vehicle itself is that it gets it’s strength the closer you get to it. A tank allows for long range destruction, but the Mantis has to get closer to its target to bd more deadly. Because of this, the Mantis acts like more of a roadblock than a vehicle, allowing it to slow down maps in the same way that the jet pack does.

A jet pack breaks map flow by allowing the player to ignore important pathways, and the Mantis breaks map flow by blocking these pathways.

Also, the Mantis can’t be hijacked which is a big no no for me.

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> The Mantis is at fault, map design won’t help it. The main problem with the vehicle itself is that it gets it’s strength the closer you get to it. A tank allows for long range destruction, but the Mantis has to get closer to its target to bd more deadly. Because of this, the Mantis acts like more of a roadblock than a vehicle, allowing it to slow down maps in the same way that the jet pack does.

What if we had Mantis variants?

First thing to come to mind is a Mantis with a Railgun-esque weapon that has to be charged, and then a weaker turret (even weaker than warthog) under this.

This allows it to be a long range powerhouse, but it will be barely able to defend itself at close ranges, relying on infantry support.

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> Also, the Mantis can’t be hijacked which is a big no no for me.

I agree with a some of your points, but saying the Mantis can’t be highjack is false. You can’t highjack it from the front, which makes it difficult to actually highjack and then there’s also the issue of the driver jumping out if they can’t stomp or shoot you and they know you’re close. But saying that it simply can’t be highjacked isn’t true.

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> > The Mantis is at fault, map design won’t help it. The main problem with the vehicle itself is that it gets it’s strength the closer you get to it. A tank allows for long range destruction, but the Mantis has to get closer to its target to bd more deadly. Because of this, the Mantis acts like more of a roadblock than a vehicle, allowing it to slow down maps in the same way that the jet pack does.
>
> What if we had Mantis variants?
>
> First thing to come to mind is a Mantis with a Railgun-esque weapon that has to be charged, and then a weaker turret (even weaker than warthog) under this.
>
> This allows it to be a long range powerhouse, but it will be barely able to defend itself at close ranges, relying on infantry support.

That wouldn’t work very well either, I’ll be honest. While it’s a good idea to try to improve the Mantis’s long range capabilities, it shouldn’t be done by splitting it into two different vehicles that would both have to be placed on the map thus adding more balancing issues. It would be more practical to have one Mantis variant that works in both long and close range.

In fact, a vehicle like this already exists, there’s actually two of them. They’re called the Scorpion and the Wraith.

The Mantis is just a reskinned tank that does its job poorly. I would have much rather had 343i spend the resources used on making the vehicle on making a UNSC air vehicle, such as the Hornet or the Falcon.

Imagine how much better the world would be if there was a Falcon/Hornet instead of a Mantis.

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Being able to win a game and rank down in CSR terms
Having team game not use a team based CSR

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Problem

The Beam Rifle’s excessive aim assist and bullet magnetism allows it to have effortless kills in every range both scoped and non-scoped. In short, the weapon is both a shotgun and a sniper.

Solution:

Tone down the weapons aim assist and b-mag by at least 75%.

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> Didn’t you make this thread like, 6 months ago? It feels like I’ve already replied to this thread.
>
>
> Anyways, one problem is the lack of a local only search option. A solution is to include a local only search option.

It may have been done in the past, not entirely sure. It certainly wasn’t me though, although I’ve said similar things.

> Problem
>
> The Beam Rifle’s excessive aim assist and bullet magnetism allows it to have effortless kills in every range both scoped and non-scoped. In short, the weapon is both a shotgun and a sniper.
>
> Solution:
>
> Tone down the weapons aim assist and b-mag by at least 75%.

Definitely agree. I think I’m simply going to put down “High Aim Asssitance” as a problem overall though. A lot of weapons have ridiculous magnetism (Railgun, spawning precision weapons, machinegun turret) which I think needs to be toned down.