problem with implementation of AA's in halo

Games Other Halo
1

I get that you need new stuff, whether innovative or borrowed from other games. I get it, this is big money stuff, Halo is a huge title and you gotta do whatever is popular and current.

This however is actually what is so perplexing about AA’s, or more specifically the way they implement them. Having everyone start with a single AA no matter what, and they all have to be balanced. How much time is wasted on balancing them out? How much foresight is wasted; not being able to plan out how the game will play because one AA turns out to be dominant. A whole recalibration has to be made for all the moving parts that failed to balance out. Then what happens? A series of modifications and tweaks are made in a course of months following the title’s release.

With so much at stake, it would seem like you want to keep the AA’s, but not have them in this “must balance out” format.

Make them pick ups, or even computer chip pick ups that get dropped like frags when a spartan dies and another spartan can pick them up, whwatever. This thread isn’t really about an alternate idea I have, the example i gave is just of the top of my head, i don’t really care. It should just be anything except the way they have it set up now.

Take promethean vision for example. It seemed like the mlg players were all gravitating to it, so it must be the superior AA. So what do they do now, make all these modifications to balance it out? Remove it? If they don’t, all the other AA’s are obsolete, and what a waste of time and effort, and the game becomes something they didn’t anticipate. Why not have it set up in a way where you can anticipate how the final product of the game will be months before release instead of months after?

Finally to my last point; but let me first preface it with this. I don’t mind that they are making changes to the game. I understand as well that some experimentation might have to go on to make improvements. I’m glad they ditched armor lock and jet packs and went with things that will probably flow with the game better ie. hard light sheild, burst pack (whatever its called). Also, just by themselves, a lot of the new AA’s look cool (although i hate cloak as a AA and not a pick up on the map). But the final point is this: even if, despite all the criticisms of how having to balancing the AAs out slows down and fogs the development of the game; what is gained if they finally do the almost impossible and find the perfect balance? All the AA’s are now in perfect symmetry, none of them having any discernable advantage or disadvantage compared to the others? What is really gained in this scenario? Not that much in my opinon. Yeah, you can customize your spartan to a degree. You can say, hey, I’m a hard light sheild guy versus a cloak guy, or a promethean guy. but in the end, so what? this ability to distinguish yourself seems minor. I almost would rather not have to distinguish myself in this way and just start the same as everyone else. Perhaps some of you feel differently but how much is that worth to be able to differentiate yourself in this manner?

Anyways, the game i’m sure will still be good, but this is the most glaring flaw.

2

If the game coming out was Halo: Reach, your point might be relevant. However, AA’s were reasonably balanced in Reach, aside from a few outliers, which were hammered out to the best of their ability. Now that an entire generation of AA’s have run their course, I think 343 has a better understanding of what AA’s are and aren’t balanced, and how to balance them better.

I hate the idea of AA pickups. That’s essentially equipment from Halo 3, and those were terrible. Also, MLG or not, nobody currently knows how balanced or unbalanced AA’s will be in Halo 4.

3

They will have a playlist just for you :slight_smile:

4

> If the game coming out was Halo: Reach, your point might be relevant. However, <mark>AA’s were reasonably balanced in Reach</mark>, aside from a few outliers, which were hammered out to the best of their ability. Now that an entire generation of AA’s have run their course, I think 343 has a better understanding of what AA’s are and aren’t balanced, and how to balance them better.
>
> I hate the idea of AA pickups. That’s essentially equipment from Halo 3, and those were terrible. Also, MLG or not, nobody currently knows how balanced or unbalanced AA’s will be in Halo 4.

Ha. Good one.

5

When something is over used it doesnt always mean its overpowered, sometimes it means it is the easiest to use. As was the case with PV in the MLG test games. If you also notice they were all using the BR and almost nothing else, does that mean the BR is over powered?
MLG has a certain playstyle and it was painfully evident in those vids, they didn’t use much of the tools and because they play a certain way I don’t care about their opinions for the most part when it comes to the game as a whole.
AAs can be balanced and Reach’s were for the most part with the exceptions of AL(pre-TU) and JP. Hopefully 343i looks at Reach and finds ways to improve. Remember Reach was the first attempt at this.

6

In MLG footage they used other AAs too like jump pack a lot so jump pack must be OP… Silly.

AAs add variation to the game so it’s not always just plain shooting. AAs allow to use advanced strategies and not just “get PWs and spawnkill the enemy” (it got fixed in Reach). In Halo 4 AAs don’t seem to be OP so why not? There is also a classic playlist if you just can’t adapt.

7

> When something is over used it doesnt always mean its overpowered, sometimes it means it is the easiest to use. As was the case with PV in the MLG test games. If you also notice they were all using the BR and almost nothing else, does that mean the BR is over powered?
> MLG has a certain playstyle and it was painfully evident in those vids, they didn’t use much of the tools and because they play a certain way I don’t care about their opinions for the most part when it comes to the game as a whole.
> AAs can be balanced and Reach’s were for the most part with the exceptions of AL(pre-TU) and JP. Hopefully 343i looks at Reach and finds ways to improve. Remember Reach was the first attempt at this.

They were all using the BR out of nostalgia, and most of them have said that PV is extremely over powered in its current state.

8

> > When something is over used it doesnt always mean its overpowered, sometimes it means it is the easiest to use. As was the case with PV in the MLG test games. If you also notice they were all using the BR and almost nothing else, does that mean the BR is over powered?
> > MLG has a certain playstyle and it was painfully evident in those vids, they didn’t use much of the tools and because they play a certain way I don’t care about their opinions for the most part when it comes to the game as a whole.
> > AAs can be balanced and Reach’s were for the most part with the exceptions of AL(pre-TU) and JP. Hopefully 343i looks at Reach and finds ways to improve. Remember Reach was the first attempt at this.
>
> They were all using the BR out of nostalgia, and most of them have said that PV is extremely over powered in its current state.

I know PV is over powered, I didn’t say it wasn’t. I was merely pointing out something being over used doesnt mean it’s over powered.

9

So, after all this work, I’m finally reading someone else than just myself saying that the concept of armor abilities isn’t flawed, but the fact that the developers are trying to cram them into loadouts which only hinders their potential. Here’s a prime example:

Camo was awesome before Reach. Everyone knows it, everyone liked it. It was the ultimate tool for just running around and killing the opponents, whether you did it with a sword, rockets, just your BR or whatever. Camping with it was unthinkable when it was just going to waste you the whole thing, you needed to be fast and efficient.

Then we got loadouts. The old version of camo would’ve been overpowered with loadouts when anyone could’ve used it at any time with no consequences. So were implemented the fading of the invisibility in movement, the radar jamming, the removal of sounds. However, because the camo faded away while moving, movement was pretty much pointless with it. So, instead of being the ultimate offensive tool, it became the ultimate camping tool. Hated by everyone but the campers.

The point of this story is clear and best describes what loadouts did to these pick-ups: dumbed them down and still failed to make them work properly. It’s really not just camo that would benefit from returning to pick-ups, every armor ability would. Jetpack, for example, was problematic because it was available to anyone at any time. Having one or two on the map would only grant the team one player who can break the movement routes, one player who is still vulnerable to lose the Jetpack.

Promethean Vision, too, is problematic because anyone can have it and use it at any moment. However, if it was a pick-up, it could grant the player some seconds of ability to see everything on the map, only at the moment of picking up and it couldn’t be stopped once you start it. This would merely give a few seconds of tactical advantage and would go wasted for the team unless the player knew how to communicate properly.

It very much applies to almost any armor ability. Having them as pick-ups would vastly give them more possible functions without having to think their balance as much. Having them in loadouts is only restricting their vast possibilities.

10

AA’s spice the game up more than just a few ordnance drops, that’s for sure.

11

AA’s were badly balanced in reach. but they seem balanced in halo 4. can you honestly think of one ability thats OP in halo 4?

12

> AA’s were badly balanced in reach. but they seem balanced in halo 4. can you honestly think of one ability thats OP in halo 4?

How about Promethean Vision? And that’s only indirectly reasoned based on the MLG gameplay. The truth is, Halo 4 will most likely have its fair share of balancing problems. And the problem with armor abilities isn’t even is something more useful than the other, the problem is that each is useful in a different situation.

Consider an encounter, I have Promethean Vision, you have Thruster Pack. Now, I make a slight assumption here and assume that Thruster pack could be used for strafing. You could use the Promethean Vision to see me behind a corner in which case you could get the advantage of surprise in which case you would be likely to win. However, if there was nothing but both of us running to eachother, I’d be most likely to win when I had the Thruster Pack that grants a huge advantage in terms of strafing.

You can’t really say one of them is more powerful than the other. They’re simply powerful in different situations, situations that are practically a matter of luck. Regardless, neither of the abilities has their full potential in that situation. If both were on the map as pick-ups, their balance wouldn’t really matter and they could reach their full potential.

Don’t get this wrong. Armor abilities can totally work in loadouts, they really can. However, they can never work as well in loadouts as they can as map pick-ups. And that’s the exact problem, 343i trying to cram them into a place they don’t belong. Even if they succeeded at that, the loadouts are still just a hindrance to the potential of armor abilities.

13

> > AA’s were badly balanced in reach. but they seem balanced in halo 4. can you honestly think of one ability thats OP in halo 4?
>
> How about Promethean Vision? And that’s only indirectly reasoned based on the MLG gameplay. The truth is, Halo 4 will most likely have its fair share of balancing problems. And the problem with armor abilities isn’t even is something more useful than the other, the problem is that each is useful in a different situation.
>
> Consider an encounter, I have Promethean Vision, you have Thruster Pack. Now, I make a slight assumption here and assume that Thruster pack could be used for strafing. You could use the Promethean Vision to see me behind a corner in which case you could get the advantage of surprise in which case you would be likely to win. However, if there was nothing but both of us running to eachother, I’d be most likely to win when I had the Thruster Pack that grants a huge advantage in terms of strafing.
>
> You can’t really say one of them is more powerful than the other. They’re simply powerful in different situations, situations that are practically a matter of luck. Regardless, neither of the abilities has their full potential in that situation. If both were on the map as pick-ups, their balance wouldn’t really matter and they could reach their full potential.
>
> Don’t get this wrong. Armor abilities can totally work in loadouts, they really can. However, they can never work as well in loadouts as they can as map pick-ups. And that’s the exact problem, 343i trying to cram them into a place they don’t belong. Even if they succeeded at that, the loadouts are still just a hindrance to the potential of armor abilities.

I don’t see how AAs are a problem in comparison to map pick ups, it allows for more user choice if the given situation applies, otherwise picking it up on the map not only will unnecessarily clutter the map with junk, it will probably not be that useful when the time comes.

Generally map pick ups are for something useful, I will probably not pick up something like a thrust er pack of PV unless I am in dire need for it.

Also, both teams would have to have equal access to these AAs, making the map process even more complicated, and frankly I deem it unnecessary.

Just my opinion.

14

Yep, they have to balance stuff.

15

> I don’t see how AAs are a problem in comparison to map pick ups, it allows for more user choice if the given situation applies, otherwise picking it up on the map not only will unnecessarily clutter the map with junk, it will probably not be that useful when the time comes.
>
> Just my opinion.

The thing is, they have much more potential as map pick-ups. Think about the camo. Is it better as an offensive tool that forces you to react quickly and know what you are going to do with it when it activates immediately but gives you a good advantage, or do you think it’s better as something anyone can spawn with, activate at any time and for these reasons has disadvantages such as fading in movement and radar jamming that both force the player to camp?

Same can be applied to any armor ability just as I did in my first post in this thread. All of them are simply so much better as map pick-ups than something given to the player off-spawn. What we lose in user choice, we gain in depth of usage.

And to your last point, if you think the ability has to be useful when the plyer wants it to be, you are missing a major point. There is a reason to old power-ups (overshield and camo) activated immediately after pick-up. That forced the player to utilize them quickly. If the player failed to utilize them, there was no one else to blame than themselves.

One of the exact problems of armor abilities is exactly that a player can use them when they want. It doesn’t punish the player for making bad choices nor does it force them to move quickly. Again, a prime example of this is the Camo. Giving it to the player off-spawn is only going to make the player camp, while giving it as a pick-up forces the player move and make decisions quickly. The player really has to know what they are going to do or they are just going to waste the whole ability.

16

> So, after all this work, I’m finally reading someone else than just myself saying that the concept of armor abilities isn’t flawed, but the fact that the developers are trying to cram them into loadouts which only hinders their potential. Here’s a prime example:
>
> Camo was awesome before Reach. Everyone knows it, everyone liked it. It was the ultimate tool for just running around and killing the opponents, whether you did it with a sword, rockets, just your BR or whatever. Camping with it was unthinkable when it was just going to waste you the whole thing, you needed to be fast and efficient.
>
> Then we got loadouts. The old version of camo would’ve been overpowered with loadouts when anyone could’ve used it at any time with no consequences. So were implemented the fading of the invisibility in movement, the radar jamming, the removal of sounds. However, because the camo faded away while moving, movement was pretty much pointless with it. So, instead of being the ultimate offensive tool, it became the ultimate camping tool. Hated by everyone but the campers.
>
> The point of this story is clear and best describes what loadouts did to these pick-ups: dumbed them down and still failed to make them work properly. It’s really not just camo that would benefit from returning to pick-ups, every armor ability would. Jetpack, for example, was problematic because it was available to anyone at any time. Having one or two on the map would only grant the team one player who can break the movement routes, one player who is still vulnerable to lose the Jetpack.
>
> Promethean Vision, too, is problematic because anyone can have it and use it at any moment. However, if it was a pick-up, it could grant the player some seconds of ability to see everything on the map, only at the moment of picking up and it couldn’t be stopped once you start it. This would merely give a few seconds of tactical advantage and would go wasted for the team unless the player knew how to communicate properly.
>
> It very much applies to almost any armor ability. Having them as pick-ups would vastly give them more possible functions without having to think their balance as much. Having them in loadouts is only restricting their vast possibilities.

So so true about CAMO

IM WITH THE OP 100%
AA’s do more harm then good -,-

The game played fine befor them and IM SORRY BUT HALO WOULD ALSO PLAY BETTER FROM THE LOOKS WITH OUT THEM ALSO .

Fine Fine maybe just maybe we can keep sprint

17

> .
> There is a reason to old power-ups (overshield and camo) activated immediately after pick-up. That forced the player to utilize them quickly. If the player failed to utilize them, there was no one else to blame than themselves.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> One of the exact problems of armor abilities is exactly that a player can use them when they want. It doesn’t punish the player for making bad choices nor does it force them to move quickly. Again, a prime example of this is the Camo. Giving it to the player off-spawn is only going to make the player camp, while giving it as a pick-up forces the player move and make decisions quickly. The player really has to know what they are going to do or they are just going to waste the whole ability.

Yes + you can’t play epic sneaky bomb games with camo any more …

18

If I had a nickle for Everyone of these threads.