Pro Gametypes > BR Gametypes

I really don’t understand the use of the BR only starts in all the Throwdown matches I get. I realize Halo 2 has a lot of nostalgia among Halo fans, but aren’t single-shot weapons generally viewed as more consistent and therefore skillfull? Also, the lack of range coupled with the burst just makes the longer distance fights a chore, not a challenge. Idk, I would play Throwdown if I could even start with the Carbine or Light Rifle…mayyybe even a Magnum secondary, but BR? No thanks.

Lol, competitive Halo is always such a mess of opinions. Hey, at least bloom isn’t an issue and we can kill fast enough so that armor abilites aren’t overpowered. Still, I wish I could enjoy Team Throwdown. Dubs ftw!

that’s the point. so you cant just sit comfortably half way across the level taking potshots and getting kills, like the DMR play style leads to.

> I really don’t understand the use of the BR only starts in all the Throwdown matches I get. I realize Halo 2 has a lot of nostalgia among Halo fans, but aren’t single-shot weapons generally viewed as more consistent and therefore skillfull? Also, <mark>the lack of range coupled with the burst just makes the longer distance fights a chore,</mark> not a challenge. Idk, I would play Throwdown if I could even start with the Carbine or Light Rifle…mayyybe even a Magnum secondary, but BR? No thanks.
>
> Lol, competitive Halo is always such a mess of opinions. Hey, at least bloom isn’t an issue and we can kill fast enough so that armor abilites aren’t overpowered. Still, I wish I could enjoy Team Throwdown. Dubs ftw!

> that’s the point. so you cant just sit comfortably half way across the level taking potshots and getting kills, like the DMR play style leads to.

That isn’t caused by the DMR, it’s caused by -Yoink- maps that don’t have power items placed on fast and consistent timers. Here’s proof.

because the DMR ruined halo

> that’s the point. so you cant just sit comfortably half way across the level taking potshots and getting kills, like the DMR play style leads to.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I really don’t understand the use of the BR only starts in all the Throwdown matches I get. I realize Halo 2 has a lot of nostalgia among Halo fans, but aren’t single-shot weapons generally viewed as more consistent and therefore skillfull? Also, <mark>the lack of range coupled with the burst just makes the longer distance fights a chore,</mark> not a challenge. Idk, I would play Throwdown if I could even start with the Carbine or Light Rifle…mayyybe even a Magnum secondary, but BR? No thanks.
> >
> > Lol, competitive Halo is always such a mess of opinions. Hey, at least bloom isn’t an issue and we can kill fast enough so that armor abilites aren’t overpowered. Still, I wish I could enjoy Team Throwdown. Dubs ftw!

Ignoring the DMR completely. What are competitive aspects of the BR that merit it being the sole starting weapon?

> that’s the point. so you cant just sit comfortably half way across the level taking potshots and getting kills, like the DMR play style leads to.
>
>
>
>
>
> > <mark>the lack of range coupled with the burst just makes the longer distance fights a chore,</mark>

You don’t just sit comfortably back taking potshots if everyone has access to the weapon. This is why competitve Halo 1 worked with the 3 shot pistol with a range similar to the DMR, but at an even faster shot pace. How can a weapon be OP if everyone can spawn with it?

Anyways, I think BR gametypes are ok on maps like Lockout or what is it now, Shutout? Or Midship…or you know, the Halo 2 maps that were designed to play to the BR’s stengths.

> I really don’t understand the use of the BR only starts in all the Throwdown matches I get. I realize Halo 2 has a lot of nostalgia among Halo fans, but aren’t single-shot weapons generally viewed as more consistent and therefore skillfull? Also, the lack of range coupled with the burst just makes the longer distance fights a chore, not a challenge. Idk, I would play Throwdown if I could even start with the Carbine or Light Rifle…mayyybe even a Magnum secondary, but BR? No thanks.
>
> Lol, competitive Halo is always such a mess of opinions. Hey, at least bloom isn’t an issue and we can kill fast enough so that armor abilites aren’t overpowered. Still, I wish I could enjoy Team Throwdown. Dubs ftw!

I couldnt agree more, sure the DMR is more OP than BR, but if everyone has it everyone is on same playing field. And people saying an entire team is just going to sit on one part of the map the entire time taking “pot shots” is a joke. People still strafe and move and battle with the DMR. The people complaining about it were the BR users. But now that we have team BR, they need to remove deluxe and change it to team DMR’s so at least some competitive games can be team DMR.

> > that’s the point. so you cant just sit comfortably half way across the level taking potshots and getting kills, like the DMR play style leads to.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > <mark>the lack of range coupled with the burst just makes the longer distance fights a chore,</mark>
>
> You don’t just sit comfortably back taking potshots if everyone has access to the weapon. This is why competitve Halo 1 worked with the 3 shot pistol with a range similar to the DMR, but at an even faster shot pace. How can a weapon be OP if everyone can spawn with it?
>
> Anyways, I think BR gametypes are ok on maps like Lockout or what is it now, Shutout? Or Midship…or you know, the Halo 2 maps that were designed to play to the BR’s stengths.

The reason the CE pistol worked was before two additional reasons why the DMR will not work.

  1. The kill times were faster in CE but you’d then need to buff all weapons in H4 and some would become way to fast at killers.

  2. CE didn’t have so many graphics based corner and edges to get players stuck on. Also the maps in general did not have much clutter or hide behind. CE’s fast kill times also took into account the maps simplistic designs, which worked well. There wasn’t head glitching, and shooting someone just to give them time to sprint away.

The fact the DMR isn’t really OP, the problem is it allows game control at the distance BEYOND the sniper’s first zoom. The DMR lands shots consistently outside the range of the first sniper zoom. Having the DMR not pulled from zoom when you get hit it was make the DMR OP, it’s not just how the weapon fires. The extreme range mixed with no un-zoom is why the BR is the better option.

Look at Ragnarok CTF, teams rarely even try to score because the DMR creates massive kill distances. If this gametype used the BR, you’d see more flag captures and less sitting mid all game.

[deleted]

> Ignoring the DMR completely. What are competitive aspects of the BR that merit it being the sole starting weapon?

I have asked this question a number of different ways and have yet to hear a direct answer that I’m aware of. I’m more than willing to be proven wrong, but until then my opinion is that the majority of the BR love and DMR complaints come across as a bunch BR lovers whining about not getting their way.

OP, competitve opinions are indeed all over the place… I’m not surprised the TU was so measured.

> > Anyways, I think BR gametypes are ok on maps like Lockout or what is it now, Shutout? Or Midship…or you know, the Halo 2 maps that were designed to play to the BR’s stengths.
>
> Pretty much all of the maps in Throwdown are a good size for BR.
>
> Due to the spread the BR takes more accuracy and control to use than the DMR.
>
> Everyone being OP is technically balanced but it doesn’t lend to good gameplay. Actually balancing things makes the game a lot more fun.
>
> I could maybe see the carbine as a choice for the primary, but the issue with the carbine is that its long range capabilities are limited the by its lengthy kill time. Thus it can be really easy for someone to just back down when getting shot long range.
>
> I like the LR myself, but it’s almost just another DMR.
>
> The DMR and/or the the LR are on most of the maps as a semi-power weapon. This adds a bit more strategy to the game as well.
>
> There might be a little Halo 2 nostalgia, but don’t forget that the BR was the flagship gun of Halo 3 as well.

Having random spread does not mean it takes more accuracy and control than the DMR. You can’t ‘adjust’ for random spread unless you are clairvoyant. Spread that makes long range combat consist of dice roles and mid-range be determined by coinflips is far worse for gameplay than “everyone using an ‘OP’ weapon.”

Its been shown time and time again that in a competitive 4v4 environment there is no issue with map movement when you have consistent power ups available in contestable locations(This is also true for BTB with adjustments). The DMR and Light Rifle are powerful and consistent and that is a GOOD THING(auto weapons are solid as well but I digress). The DMR’s long range aim-assist is too forgiving, but on 4v4 maps it is a non-issue.

The BR is slow and inconsistent at nearly all ranges and as it is now if we go by competitive merit it has no place as the sole starting weapon. But we are not, if it was the Z-34 forerunner burst rifle instead of the UNSC Battle Rifle, it would not be the competitive starting weapon. The BR is coasting on familiarity alone.

If we were to choose the throwdown starting weapon(s) based on competitive merit the Light Rifle would be the clear choice. It is not as easy to use at range as the DMR while the scope maintains a decent killtime and it lacks the inconsistent spread of the BR.

It’s possible to out-strafe someone using a BR. Because the DMR has so much bullet magnetism, strafing does very little to help you against someone using a DMR. DMR takes less skill to use than a BR. Simple as that.

> It’s possible to out-strafe someone using a BR. Because the DMR has so much bullet magnetism, strafing does very little to help you against someone using a DMR. DMR takes less skill to use than a BR. Simple as that.

False. Every rifle has the same amount of bullet magnetism. The only exceptions is when the DMR or light rifle is scoped, then they receive a boost in magnetism.

Halo 4 Magnetism Test

Halo 2 actually had more bullet magnetism than Halo 4

Throwdown is okay, but needs DMR starts. It plays like Halo 3, but that’s not a good thing. It needs to play like Halo 2 in my opinion and the DMR is the closest thing to the Halo 2 BR that this game has. Random bullet spread is not “skillful” in any game.

The difference between the Light Rifle and DMR is that the DMR rounds are instant.The Light Rifle round have slight flight time, not much, but enough to make a difference.The LR gives the user a choice between ease of use in short range but slower kill time, and less ease of use at short range but faster kill times if either scoped in or scoped out.There is the fact that the LR has a 2x scope and not a 3x like the DMR making it harder to hit across the map.The LR also seems to have slightly less magnetism than the human guns.Getting headshots while scoped in can be quite hard with the LR, this is opposite with the DMR.

Overall the Light Rifle has the largest skill gap of all the loadout guns.That is why i would suggest the LR be in competitive play rather than the random fandom BR or the easy cheesy DMR.

> The difference between the Light Rifle and DMR is that the DMR rounds are instant.The Light Rifle round have slight flight time, not much, but enough to make a difference.The LR gives the user a choice between ease of use in short range but slower kill time, and less ease of use at short range but faster kill times if either scoped in or scoped out.There is the fact that the LR has a 2x scope and not a 3x like the DMR making it harder to hit across the map.The LR also seems to have slightly less magnetism than the human guns.Getting headshots while scoped in can be quite hard with the LR, this is opposite with the DMR.
>
>
> Overall the Light Rifle has the largest skill gap of all the loadout guns.That is why i would suggest the LR be in competitive play rather than the random fandom BR or the easy cheesy DMR.

The light rifle IS Hitscan and it has a 3x scope, magnetism is identical, though the range at which aim assist kicks in is longer for the DMR. But even with all that the LR is still the most competitive rifle in Halo 4, honestly it is second only to the CE pistol.

the light rifle says hello. it has ZERO spread on its burst and it scoped is also ZERO spread.

the br is consistent at close to mid. that is all you need.
http://www.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

MOST IMPORTANT TO FROM THE ABOVE LINK.- Another design goal with the Battle Rifle in Halo 3 was to bring the kill-range closer. One way this was achieved was by giving bullets 2 and 3 from the BR a wider error, which makes them less likely to land outside of the BR’s intended effective range. Summarily, this reduces the BR’s effectiveness AND damage output at those ranges, without compromising its ability to finish a target at the same range.

This change allows the Battle Rifle to be competitive in terms of damage output at closer-than-Halo 2-levels, without being so effective at longer range, that players caught in the open are gunned down too quickly (that task in Halo 3’s sandbox belongs to the Sniper Rifle. If you need to control a space 30wu [world units] away, use it instead).

> Throwdown is okay, but needs DMR starts. It plays like Halo 3, but that’s not a good thing. It needs to play like Halo 2 in my opinion and th<mark>e DMR is the closest thing to the Halo 2 BR that this game has. Random bullet spread is not “skillful”</mark> in any game.

> the light rifle says hello. it has ZERO spread on its burst and it scoped is also ZERO spread.
>
>
> the br is consistent at close to mid. that is all you need.
> http://www.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347
>
>
>
> MOST IMPORTANT TO FROM THE ABOVE LINK.- Another design goal with the Battle Rifle in Halo 3 was to bring the kill-range closer. One way this was achieved was by giving bullets 2 and 3 from the BR a wider error, which makes them less likely to land outside of the BR’s intended effective range. Summarily, this reduces the BR’s effectiveness AND damage output at those ranges, without compromising its ability to finish a target at the same range.
>
> This change allows the Battle Rifle to be competitive in terms of damage output at closer-than-Halo 2-levels, without being so effective at longer range, that players caught in the open are gunned down too quickly (that task in Halo 3’s sandbox belongs to the Sniper Rifle. If you need to control a space 30wu [world units] away, use it instead).
>
>
>
>
> > Throwdown is okay, but needs DMR starts. It plays like Halo 3, but that’s not a good thing. It needs to play like Halo 2 in my opinion and th<mark>e DMR is the closest thing to the Halo 2 BR that this game has. Random bullet spread is not “skillful”</mark> in any game.

Fine, a proper LR option that is not part of the terrible deluxe gametype is fine with me.

As for the BR there are plenty of ways to bring the engagement ranges closer without resorting to random spread. Recoil(controllable, predicable), reducing aim assist and magnetism(which was the main issue with the H2 BR), projectiles(if we had dedicated servers).

By its very nature the spread rewards less than stellar aim and potentially punishes good aim. And all of this is on top of the BR’s overall slow killtime. Many would love to bump it up to a 4 shot for competitive play, but its spread and recoil destroy its consistency as a 4 shot weapon.

there are plenty of light rifles laying around in throwdown. i always seem to find one a spawn. but it balanced in a good way, unlike the dmr, it kills ever so slightly slower at close range then the carbine and the BR.

thats right, a properly balanced long range weapon. the dmr SHOULD reflect that.

the BR does just fine at the ranges in Team throwdown with out being overly stifling to anyone.

also the halo 4 BR DOES have recoil.

> Fine, a proper LR option that is not part of the terrible deluxe gametype is fine with me.
>
> As for the BR there are plenty of ways to bring the engagement ranges closer without resorting to random spread. Recoil(controllable, predicable), reducing aim assist and magnetism(which was the main issue with the H2 BR), projectiles(if we had dedicated servers).
>
> By its very nature the spread rewards less than stellar aim and potentially punishes good aim. And all of this is on top of the BR’s overall slow killtime. Many would love to bump it up to a 4 shot for competitive play, but its spread and recoil destroy its consistency as a 4 shot weapon.

> there are plenty of light rifles laying around in throwdown. i always seem to find one a spawn. but it balanced in a good way, unlike the dmr, it kills ever so slightly slower at close range then the carbine and the BR.
>
> thats right, a properly balanced long range weapon. the dmr SHOULD reflect that.
>
> the BR does just fine at the ranges in Team throwdown with out being overly stifling to anyone.
>
> also the halo 4 BR DOES have recoil.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Fine, a proper LR option that is not part of the terrible deluxe gametype is fine with me.
> >
> > As for the BR there are plenty of ways to bring the engagement ranges closer without resorting to random spread. Recoil(controllable, predicable), reducing aim assist and magnetism(which was the main issue with the H2 BR), projectiles(if we had dedicated servers).
> >
> > By its very nature the spread rewards less than stellar aim and potentially punishes good aim. And all of this is on top of the BR’s overall slow killtime. Many would love to bump it up to a 4 shot for competitive play, but its spread and recoil destroy its consistency as a 4 shot weapon.

Recoil only works when it is not paired with random spread. The .04 sec difference amounts to basically nothing for the LR considering the boost you get from even one scoped shot. Having LRs on the map means they will get used even less than it does now. As much as I like it, it is impractical to search one out in middle of a competitive game.

It also still doesn’t change the fact that the BR is too slow, to inconsistent, to serve the sole spawning weapon of a competitive gametype. You can even leave out the DMR if you want. As long as we actually have access off spawn to the primary with the largest skill gap of pretty much any precision weapon in Halo history other than the CE pistol, than it is fine.