Primary weapon starts and effectiveness of it.

In the next halo, the magnum should be nerfed and not the weapon that people rely on.

Watching e sports and playing halo 5 online, you can see that almost no one picks up weapons (unless it’s a power weapon of course) because the TTK for the magnum is so low, that it makes every other weapon borderline useless.

This ends up making the game one dimensional. Hence when watching eSports, there’s a bunch of weapons lying around (Carbine, BR, etc) and they never pick it up. Because it’s not even worth thier Time … What??? Lol how sad is that.

In past halos, every weapon had a purpose and you had to use them at appropriate times. In halo 5, you simply just have to “be better” then the person you’re fighting against with the magnum.

There is in now way shape or form, that the magnum should be able to kill someone faster then someone who has a BR. Or be more effective with a pistol then someone effectiveness with a BR. Period.

I will never understand why a “sidearm” should be more powerful and usable than a primary.
Or why a pistol can out beat a rifle close to med range. Plus the weapon tuning update made the BR useless which didn’t help the situation.

What also doesn’t help is the fact that EVERYONE spawns with it.

In fact, if you kept the pistol exactly how it is, it would have been way better if everyone spawned with BR and magnum was a pick up. Would of made the game way better in my opinion.

Competitive Halo has never been about weapon variety and nothing is really wrong with that. Picking up more weapons won’t suddenly make the game deeper when the weapons themselves don’t have a niche purpose. Would a BR or carbine user move or behave differently than a magnum user? Not really, because these weapons have vastly overlapping roles. It just ends up being redundant.

Would it be possible for competitive Halo to have a huge selection of interesting, unique weapons that add depth to the game? Probably, if Halo had a creative sandbox team. The problem is 343’s sandbox team is the exact opposite of creative.

> there’s a bunch of weapons lying around (Carbine, BR, etc) and they never pick it up.

Because they are so similar to each other there is no reason to pick them up. This has been a problem since halo 2. If they keep making bland counterparts to unsc weapons like the carbine, then of course there will be a ton of redundant guns. For HI 343 should really focus on making weapons that are actually unique and are used for different purposes, and not focus on making covenant or forunner versions of human weapons. Even reworking current weapons can help lessen this issue.

Nerfing the pistol isn’t a good idea. With the way Halo’s sandbox works that will just make the gun useless like it is in halo 2 and Halo 3.

I’d prefer BR/ DMR starts with no backup weapon for ranked playlists.

As for social, BR/ DMR with an AR or SMG would be a good start.

> 2533274794648158;4:
> Picking up more weapons won’t suddenly make the game deeper when the weapons themselves don’t have a niche purpose.

That’s the thing though, it could. Look at Quake champions, every weapon has a purpose and specific way of using them and what distance you should them. In halo … You can pretty much just get by with using the pistol all the time for long, medium and short range. Which IMO makes the game bland.

> 2535423412908536;5:
> >
>
> Nerfing the pistol isn’t a good idea. With the way Halo’s sandbox works that will just make the gun useless like it is in halo 2 and Halo 3.

And that’s how it should be, a pistol is made and designed to be either a CQB weapon or a weapon of last resort where in the event of you running out of ammo in your primary weapon, you pull out your pistol and FINISH off your target.

It’s not made to be primary. So making it so In halo 5 just makes it so off putting.

Keep in mind this is my opinion as well.

People don’t pick up other weapons because the sandbox is full of redundant clones and other dull designs. Moreover the Halo 5 Pistol is not doing anything different than any other utility weapon in past Halo games. The BR was just as dominant in Halo 2 and 3, the DMR was just as dominant in Reach, the only Halo game that has ever managed mostly organic weapon variety is CE.

If you honestly think that “every weapon had a purpose” in say Halo 3 then I have no idea what game your were playing but it wasn’t the same one as me. I’ll give Halo 5 credit that at least most weapons are lethal again, if nothing else, a fair few weapons in H2/3 were not only dull designs, but underpowered to boot.

There is nothing wrong with having a strong utility weapon off spawn, the problem is a poorly designed sandbox that doesn’t offer any interesting options to a player. It makes perfect sense that most people are not going to pick up the Burst fire Pistol(BR), the bigger pistol(DMR) or the green Pistol(Carbine), if those are some of your options you are honestly better off just sticking with the Pistol and practicing with that.

Nerfing the Pistol(or whatever the future utility weapon might be) in order to try and force people to pick up badly designed weapons for the sake of a prettier light show is beyond shallow. Simply swapping out the Pistol for the BR would also be rather silly as not only do I think the situation would stay mostly the same, but simply chasing an “upgrade” doesn’t make the game any more interesting. All it does is add another barrier from spawning to being able to effectively engage the enemy. It is the same logic that people use to try to defend garbarge like SMG starts(or AR starts in H3).

I also find the notion of complaining about the Pistol being as good a rifle to be a completely superficial one. Halo has had a penchant for powerful Pistols from the beginning and in a game where you can only carry two weapons at a time regardless of size or shape there is zero room for any sort of “sidearm” in a mechanical sense.

> 2533274819446242;9:
> Halo has had a penchant for powerful Pistols from the beginning

Exactly my point. The pistol has been powerful since the beginning right?

That further proves my point as to why it should be a pick then (if not just a weapon that is used to finish off someone) because it is powerful.

Halo is an arena shooter at it’s core, and better weapons are always picked up. Not giving at spawn.

> 2535428602889851;10:
> > 2533274819446242;9:
> > Halo has had a penchant for powerful Pistols from the beginning
>
> Exactly my point. The pistol has been powerful since the beginning right?
>
> That further proves my point as to why it should be a pick then (if not just a weapon that is used to finish off someone) because it is powerful.
>
> Halo is an arena shooter at it’s core, and better weapons are always picked up. Not giving at spawn.

Halo is a shooter where “better” weapons(see: Rockets, snipe etc) are fought over and niche weapons are chosen based on the situation. A strong, utility weapon, regardless of whether it is Pistol shaped or rifle shaped, is necessary to keep games from snowballing. Halo has always differed from your traditional Arena shooter where you work your way up from the bottom in this regard.

Moreover just switching the BR and Pistol around wouldn’t change anything. If it is little more than an incremental upgrade, players are not going to bother picking it up and if it really is that much better a weapon, then it simply isn’t an interesting choice. Pick this weapon up or you lose all your gunfights leaves your in the exact same situation as SMG starts in H2 and AR starts in H3.

Once again, the H5 Pistol is not doing anything that BR or DMR starts haven’t done before it so why is it a problem now?

> 2535428602889851;7:
> > 2533274794648158;4:
> > Picking up more weapons won’t suddenly make the game deeper when the weapons themselves don’t have a niche purpose.
>
> That’s the thing though, it could. Look at Quake champions, every weapon has a purpose and specific way of using them and what distance you should them. In halo … You can pretty much just get by with using the pistol all the time for long, medium and short range. Which IMO makes the game bland.

Quake and Halo are not the same game, the combat is not even remotely similar and the weapon system/hierarchy could not be more different, especially item spawns and the fact that you can hold several weapons at once. Halo is not and never has been an “arena shooter” in any sense that would put it completely on the Quake/UT/etc. side of the fence. It’s its own thing.

The magnum isn’t the problem in H5, it’s the fact they nerfed all the rifles to the point you’d rather just use the magnum because it was untouched. The BR for example used to be better than the magnum, you would see it used at every chance. After they nerfed it no one picks it up because it’s worse than a magnum.

I personally love the H5 magnum, it’s the best out of any Halo game in my opinion. Not too good like the H1 pistol, not completely useless like every other Halo, it’s right in the middle. I guess you could say since the rifle nerfs it isn’t perfectly balanced anymore but that’s not the magnum’s fault, it never changed.

Moving away from the magnum, hasn’t Halo always been pretty one dimensional in its weapon usage? As far as esports goes it’s always been your primary with power weapons, there’s never been much more weapon picking up compared to H5, so I don’t really get that point.

> 2533275031939856;13:
> The magnum isn’t the problem in H5, it’s the fact they nerfed all the rifles to the point you’d rather just use the magnum because it was untouched. The BR for example used to be better than the magnum, you would see it used at every chance. After they nerfed it no one picks it up because it’s worse than a magnum.
>
> I personally love the H5 magnum, it’s the best out of any Halo game in my opinion. Not too good like the H1 pistol, not completely useless like every other Halo, it’s right in the middle. I guess you could say since the rifle nerfs it isn’t perfectly balanced anymore but that’s not the magnum’s fault, it never changed.
>
> Moving away from the magnum, hasn’t Halo always been pretty one dimensional in its weapon usage? As far as esports goes it’s always been your primary with power weapons, there’s never been much more weapon picking up compared to H5, so I don’t really get that point.

Now this… I really agree with.

I think the problem is the leveling of damage of all the weapons, they take the magnum since almost the same as using a BR. the solution could be less precision in the magnum, less bullets or more damage in the other weapons

> 2533275020115329;15:
> I think the problem is the leveling of damage of all the weapons, they take the magnum since almost the same as using a BR. the solution could be less precision in the magnum, less bullets or more damage in the other weapons

why not both give the pistol less bullets and give the non power weapons you most pick up on the map a little more damage boost then you have a reason to pick then up.

I echo the disagreements that have been expressed by others in this thread, namely:

  • Halo needs a strong utility weapon at spawn—which is a precision weapon for a number of reasons—and it makes no difference for gameplay whether that’s skinned as a pistol or a rifle. - Players not picking up weapons that fill the same role as what they’re already holding in their hands does not make the gameplay one dimensional. The issue here is not that the magnum is too powerful, but that there are too many overlapping weapons in the sandbox, or that some weapons aren’t interesting enough to pick up. - Halo has struggled with weapon redundancy ever since Bungie started adding Covenant counterparts of human weapons in Halo 2. - For solving the redundancy issue and players not picking up weapons, there are two options. One is to admit that you have too many weapons, and not spawn weapons that will never get picked up on mutliplayer maps (if not outright remove a huge chunk of the weapon sandbox). This is something any developer should be capable of. The other option is to find a truly unique purpose for each weapon. This is extremely difficult for a sandbox with more than a few weapons, and practically impossible in the sandbox of Halo 5.

> 2533274823394867;16:
> > 2533275020115329;15:
> > I think the problem is the leveling of damage of all the weapons, they take the magnum since almost the same as using a BR. the solution could be less precision in the magnum, less bullets or more damage in the other weapons
>
> why not both give the pistol less bullets and give the non power weapons you most pick up on the map a little more damage boost then you have a reason to pick then up.

Probably because that is completely shallow design that won’t fix any of the underlying problems. The problem is not that the damage and ammo numbers are wildly unbalanced, the Halo sandbox is just full of boring redundant weapon designs. Making the Pistol a worse BR or making the BR a better Pistol doesn’t change the fact they still fundamentally the same weapon with a different skin.

> 2533274823394867;16:
> > 2533275020115329;15:
> > I think the problem is the leveling of damage of all the weapons, they take the magnum since almost the same as using a BR. the solution could be less precision in the magnum, less bullets or more damage in the other weapons
>
> why not both give the pistol less bullets and give the non power weapons you most pick up on the map a little more damage boost then you have a reason to pick then up.

That’s not a true fix to the issue though. The problem is that there are too many weapons that fill the same role. In halo 5 we have the Pistol, Br, dmr, carbine, and light rifle which are all used for the same purpose. Giving the starting weapon less ammo so that you have to pick up these other weapons is shallow.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not create alternate accounts to bypass forum bans. Alternate accounts will be permanently banned, and offending users will be subject to both temporary and permanent bans.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

I agree with your point. Although you didn’t flat out say it, I think you’re basically saying that the game is dull and monotonous when it becomes a pistol vs pistol fest every match. I can totally relate.

However, I will disagree about the “professionals” stuff. The average player is not a pro, not even champs are as good as they are, so using them as an example of an ordinary match is a bit inaccurate. The same can be said about other games, too, such as all the Bronze-Onyx players in Gears of War who think they can play like pros with the gnasher.

The truth is, in the overall scheme of most matchmaking games, every weapon does have it’s place for the most part. That’s when playing in an average match with average players.

however, I do agree that there shouldn’t be one weapon that out plays every other weapon in every single moment more than 90% of the time.