Precursors & Flood *Spoilers*

Community Halo Universe
1

So, I’m just trying to make sense over the events in the Forerunner Saga, and the larger HALO Universe. Perhaps you’ll bear with me and find something entertaining;

“Plans within Plans within Plans”. If anything can easily summarize the HALO Universe, it is this key phrase. I’ve read Cryptum & Primordium again to try and comprehend some of the implications, debates about outright lies, and then the perspective of hindsight on these major events, and I’ve come to one conclusion; EVERYTHING is the Forerunners fault. The Precursors, also known as the Originals, came to our galaxy and seeded it with life.

Again and again, they terminated entire civilizations that failed to uphold their strict code of morals, which the Forerunners would come to dub the Mantle. The Precursors sought a galaxy built on the fundamentals of peace and prosperity, but failed to find that in their creations. Until they created the Forerunners, and their sibling; Humanity. The Forerunners quickly advanced, their jumps in science and technology nearly rivaled the power that their Precursor “gods” possessed.

And, for a fleeting moment, the Precursors thought it might be the Forerunners who could unite the Milky Way galaxy in peace. But the Forerunners wanted submission from the other races, not equality. They believed peace could only be achieved through force and strength. Any species who opposed the Forerunners, opposed the Mantle, and were swiftly struck down, devolved, or utterly destroyed.

This angered the Precursors, and the decision was made that this galaxy would not be left to the Forerunners, instead, they would be wiped clean, and Humanity would claim the Mantle. But when the Forerunners realized the Precursors intended to erase them, they instead would make war, and erase their creators, who they believed had defied the Mantle. But, like everything else in the universe, life goes on, and a select few Precursors escaped, and creation continued in another galaxy.

This was the horrible truth that so many humans were privy to, when the Last Precursor, The Primordial, was brought to Charum Hakkor, he revealed to them the origins of the Flood, and the transcendence his race had found; when the remaining Precursors fled, and creation continued, they realized the frailty of the universe, and what the Mantle truly represented.

In these moments of experimentation, The Flood was born, their Answer to the Mantle. The Precursors bonded with the Flood and finally, they were Transsentient. This was the peace, the unity and quiet wisdom the entire universe required. Whether the galaxy would succumb, or struggle and unite together to combat the Flood, either way, peace and unity. Now the Precursors slumber, when one dies, another is awakened, to continue the cycle, and keep the Flood alive. So that humanity, when they are ripe, will finally be tested by the Precursors.

When the Forerunners eradicated Humanity, devolved them and locked them away on Earth, the Precursors realized it was not humanity that should yet be judged, but the Forerunners time to come to an end, so that Humanity might one day be tested.

2

Well written summary of the cacophony of events that will feed into halo 4’s main plot.

While glasslands seems to point in the direction that humanity is doing exactly what the forerunners did - supplant the other races in a bid to be the one to rule them all, I feel the forerunners will return, if only to teach humanity their mistakes, so that humanity will instead try to unite all the species against this common enemy.

3

But didn’t the Timeless one just turn out to be a Gravemind? I’m still rereading the book but I thought he was a Gravemind, although it still all fits if he has the knowledge of the Precursors due to their being taken in by the Flood.

4

the Mantle is not something the Forerunners made up, the Timeless One talks about it to the Didact, however we don’t know what it really is - the Forerunner version could very well turn out to be a misunderstanding like the “Great Journey” was.

also the forerunner/precursor’s true motivation isn’t quite clear. if the only goal is to unify the galaxy by assimilation, it makes absolutely no sense to retreat after almost finishing off ancient humanity, then coming back 10,000 years later, ignoring humanity and only going for the Forerunners.
it also makes no sense that during the Forerunner-Flood war, the Timeless One is already proclaiming to bring “unity” only in a hundredthousand centuries, even though the flood is on the merge of victory over the forerunners. so the flood again isn’t really out to unify the galaxy, even if the gravemind from the games made us believe otherwise.
as mentioned above, the Timeless One names a date for “Unity” near the end of “Primordium”. Since those events happened about 100.000 years before the upcoming Halo 4 it is commonly assumed that the TO hints to that very day, BUT in reality he says “a hundred and one thousand centuries”, 101.000 centuries which would mean 10 million and a hundred thousand years (10.100.000). if this is not a mistake on the author’s side, it further shows that the Flood’s/Precursors’ immediate goal is not total assimilation.

whatever the real motivation may be, it probably is closely associated with the Mantle and it makes the Flood come back time and time again. the outbreaks in the games seem to have been irregular, local events, though the reason for the outbreak on Installation 05 remains unknown. an alien ship of unknown origin crash-landed on 04 (CEA Terminals). the first Flood powder reached humanity on strange vessels too. what if their origin is the same?

5

First off wow i loved OP’s draw onto the conclusion seems very plausible. The guy above me just blew my mind! NEXT TIME PLEASE REMIND ME TO WEAR A HELMET. xD

6

> Well written summary of the cacophony of events that will feed into halo 4’s main plot.
>
> While glasslands seems to point in the direction that humanity is doing exactly what the forerunners did - supplant the other races in a bid to be the one to rule them all, I feel the forerunners will return, if only to teach humanity their mistakes, so that humanity will instead try to unite all the species against this common enemy.

And I agree wholeheartedly. The UNSC is on the verge of failing the Mantle, and I believe this will cause the Precursors to take action against their children. See, there is more to this than just succumbing to the Flood, it’s about equality, and proven leadership. The Precursors have their answer, and now humanity, who has faltered, will be tested.

> But didn’t the Timeless one just turn out to be a Gravemind? I’m still rereading the book but I thought he was a Gravemind, although it still all fits if he has the knowledge of the Precursors due to their being taken in by the Flood.

Yes, the Primordial was a Gravemind, but he was a Higher one, keeping his individuality while remaining with the Whole. Much like Regret in Halo 2, although assimilated by the Flood, he remains an individual, and even 2401 Penitent Tangent. I believe the remaining Precursors are indeed Graveminds, all of them, but they are the conscious thought of all Flood.

> the Mantle is not something the Forerunners made up, the Timeless One talks about it to the Didact, however we don’t know what it really is - the Forerunner version could very well turn out to be a misunderstanding like the “Great Journey” was.
>
> also the forerunner/precursor’s true motivation isn’t quite clear. if the only goal is to unify the galaxy by assimilation, it makes absolutely no sense to retreat after almost finishing off ancient humanity, then coming back 10,000 years later, ignoring humanity and only going for the Forerunners.
> it also makes no sense that during the Forerunner-Flood war, the Timeless One is already proclaiming to bring “unity” only in a hundredthousand centuries, even though the flood is on the merge of victory over the forerunners. so the flood again isn’t really out to unify the galaxy, even if the gravemind from the games made us believe otherwise.
> as mentioned above, the Timeless One names a date for “Unity” near the end of “Primordium”. Since those events happened about 100.000 years before the upcoming Halo 4 it is commonly assumed that the TO hints to that very day, BUT in reality he says “a hundred and one thousand centuries”, 101.000 centuries which would mean 10 million and a hundred thousand years (10.100.000). if this is not a mistake on the author’s side, it further shows that the Flood’s/Precursors’ immediate goal is not total assimilation.
>
> whatever the real motivation may be, it probably is closely associated with the Mantle and it makes the Flood come back time and time again. the outbreaks in the games seem to have been irregular, local events, though the reason for the outbreak on Installation 05 remains unknown. an alien ship of unknown origin crash-landed on 04 (CEA Terminals). the first Flood powder reached humanity on strange vessels too. what if their origin is the same?

No one said the Forerunners “made up” the Mantle, no, they misunderstood it. As my opening post states clearly, what we have witnessed in the downfall of the Forerunners is their hubris and arrogance. They believed no other species had the rights to be their equal and shunned them all, sometimes even completely eradicating them. It is the irony of it all that’s really telling.

I do believe that this “10 million” whatnot is an author’s editing mistake, and have no intention in going around in circles on this date, as it makes little sense to me. Hell, my copy of Primordial has four GLARING mistakes that I just typed that up to the fifth. So I will not be entertaining this line of thought until we have clarity on its use.

They retreated because of outside, Forerunner involvement. The Precursors have sought only to test humanity, and they have been interrupted every time, both by Forerunner involvement, therefore it was decided that the Forerunners would finally come to an end, so that they may find peace. There is evidence to this by the fact that the Primordial takes his Installation right to the Ecumene capital, and even the use of Mendicant Bias.

The Precursors knew of the Forerunners plot, but they also knew, thanks to Mendicant Bias, about the plan to save the races of the galaxy, and they planned, just as they did within another plan. Forcing the Forerunners to erase themselves, and destroy the Primordial, cleansing the entire galaxy, so that humanity, FINALLY, could grow ripe, free of outside interference. And another would wake to one day serve, and lead the test against humanity.

The outbreaks in the initial trilogy was irregular and had no role in the Precursors plan. These were localized events perpetuated by the Covenant’s incessant nagging, as it were. The Gravemind of Delta Halo decided to take action so that the Installations would not be used, as humanity’s test is near. This is why, instead of crashing on earth, or spreading the flood even further out, he decided to go straight to the Ark.

What people mistakenly come to as the conclusion is that is was always the Precursors goal to assimilate all life into the Flood at that point in time, but it never was. It was to force the Forerunners hand, since only the Forerunners had the power to finally erase themselves from the galaxy. Even then, it is clear that their goal is total assimilation, struggle or submit, it is all sweetness to them, as societies live and grow, more wisdom is eventually absorbed by the Whole. Even if there is no unity through the Flood, if humanity manages to unite the galaxy in peace, then unity is still achieved. Sweetness.

It is very much so like the christian myth of Noah’s Ark, when god looked down upon his creations and saw the sin and evil, he cleansed the world with a flood, and allowed only a select few to remain, who would be tested another day.

7

concerning the flood - precursor relationship…
this one’s really, really interesting. so first, let me get the facts straights…

1.) timeline:

+millions of years ago, a culture known as “Precursors” (to the Forerunners) lived in our galaxy
+they created the human and the forerunner species, probably among others
+the precursors also wiped out entire species, for unknown reasons
+at one point the Forerunners rose against their creators and defeated them
+a few precursors survived and left the galaxy
+million years later the flood returns as a powder, in never-seen-before starships and starts attacking humans and san’ shyuum.
+humans find the Timeless One deep inside the crust of a planetoid, kept in a stasis field (or similar)
+humanity struggles to fight the flood on the battlefield, as well as in the lab - and seem to succeed. the flood stops infecting +humans and retreats for 10,000 years.
+when it returns, it targets the Forerunners, humans are not infected outside of laboratories
+near the end of the Flood-Forerunner war the Timeless One is confronted by the Didact. Although the Flood is winning and almost in reach of the Halo array, the TO proclaims that “Unity” will not be bestowed onto the galaxy for another 101.000 centuries.
the Halos fire
+approx. 50,000 years later an unknown starship crash-lands on installation 04. there seem to be no survivors and 343 GS builds a sarcophagus around it.
+approx. 100.000 years later, the Human-Covenant war takes place.

2.) the timeless one
made up of multiple bodies of unidentified species. according to the forerunner trilogy he has an arachnid head with a long tail/barb at it’s base of the neck, multiple arms and spider’s legs.
at least those spider legs appear in “Primordium”, i thought in “Cryptum” the prisoner was described as of roughly humanoid shape, with multiple arms only (4 if i remember correct). unfortunately i can’t find my copy of “Cryptum” anymore, so i’d be glad if one of you could take another look at it and compare the descriptions of the Prisoner.
so, composed of multiple bodies, it seems pretty clear that the Prisoner/TO is a Gravemind, or at least some of highest-evolved flood.

the circumstances in which he was found lead to the assumption that he was put there during the Precursor-Forerunner war - the last time the precursors were seen.

this would mean that the forerunners fought against the Timeless One and his kind, so actually they knew about the flood, or would have, if they hadn’t lost almost all memories about that time.
Forerunners “remember” the Mantle, that the Precursors made them and that they were trying to wipe out the Forerunners but were defeated. but that’s about it.
pretty strange for a species that is otherwise very interested in documenting and saving memories.
i smell plot - twist.

3.) now, concerning the relationship between the flood and the precursors:
the TO talks, acts and looks (somewhat) like the flood. he even says flood and precursors: one and the same. however: the forerunner built structures and created species. the flood we know so far (games and novels, including forerunner-flood era) does not anything constructive except for forming a gravemind and “growing” pure forms. no vessels or structures created - the flood doesn’t need no shelter and uses what’s at hand.
this is a MAJOR difference, which grows even more if we compare the TO to the gravemind from installation 05: the gravemind is only talking about “unity”, whereas the flood history and the remarks made by the TO suggest a more complicated motivation/goal.
so, IMHO the flood and the precursors are not the same, but very close - with the Precursors controlling the flood, including graveminds…

EDIT @Mr. Sanders: the Flood is not “the test”. the Timeless One states that humanity has to be tested yet, AFTER they had initial contact with the flood.

8

> concerning the flood - precursor relationship…
> this one’s really, really interesting. so first, let me get the facts straights…
>
> 1.) timeline:
>
> +millions of years ago, a culture known as “Precursors” (to the Forerunners) lived in our galaxy
> +they created the human and the forerunner species, probably among others
> +the precursors also wiped out entire species, for unknown reasons
> +at one point the Forerunners rose against their creators and defeated them
> +a few precursors survived and left the galaxy
> +million years later the flood returns as a powder, in never-seen-before starships and starts attacking humans and san’ shyuum.
> +humans find the Timeless One deep inside the crust of a planetoid, kept in a stasis field (or similar)
> +humanity struggles to fight the flood on the battlefield, as well as in the lab - and seem to succeed. the flood stops infecting +humans and retreats for 10,000 years.
> +when it returns, it targets the Forerunners, humans are not infected outside of laboratories
> +near the end of the Flood-Forerunner war the Timeless One is confronted by the Didact. Although the Flood is winning and almost in reach of the Halo array, the TO proclaims that “Unity” will not be bestowed onto the galaxy for another 101.000 centuries.
> the Halos fire
> +approx. 50,000 years later an unknown starship crash-lands on installation 04. there seem to be no survivors and 343 GS builds a sarcophagus around it.
> +approx. 100.000 years later, the Human-Covenant war takes place.
>
>
> 2.) the timeless one
> made up of multiple bodies of unidentified species. according to the forerunner trilogy he has an arachnid head with a long tail/barb at it’s base of the neck, multiple arms and spider’s legs.
> at least those spider legs appear in “Primordium”, i thought in “Cryptum” the prisoner was described as of roughly humanoid shape, with multiple arms only (4 if i remember correct). unfortunately i can’t find my copy of “Cryptum” anymore, so i’d be glad if one of you could take another look at it and compare the descriptions of the Prisoner.
> so, composed of multiple bodies, it seems pretty clear that the Prisoner/TO is a Gravemind, or at least some of highest-evolved flood.
>
> the circumstances in which he was found lead to the assumption that he was put there during the Precursor-Forerunner war - the last time the precursors were seen.
>
> this would mean that the forerunners fought against the Timeless One and his kind, so actually they knew about the flood, or would have, if they hadn’t lost almost all memories about that time.
> Forerunners “remember” the Mantle, that the Precursors made them and that they were trying to wipe out the Forerunners but were defeated. but that’s about it. pretty strange for a species that is otherwise very interested in documenting and saving memories.
>
>
> 3.) now, concerning the relationship between the flood and the precursors: the TO talks, acts and looks (somewhat) like the flood. he even says flood and precursors: one and the same. however: the forerunner built structures and created species. the flood we know so far (games and novels, including forerunner-flood era) does not anything constructive except for forming a gravemind and “growing” pure forms. no vessels or structures created - the flood doesn’t need no shelter and uses what’s at hand.
> this is a MAJOR difference, which grows even more if we compare the TO to the gravemind from installation 05: the gravemind is only talking about “unity”, whereas the flood history and the remarks made by the TO suggest a more complicated motivation/goal.
> so, IMHO the flood and the precursors are not the same, but very close - with the Precursors controlling the flood, including graveminds…
>
>
>
>
> EDIT @Mr. Sanders: the Flood is not “the test”. the Timeless One states that humanity has to be tested yet, AFTER they had initial contact with the flood.

No, I never said it was THE test. You’re not reading my posts. What I said is, how they rule, how they treat equality, this is what the Forerunners initially failed at, that is what the Primordial meant, it wasn’t the Flood, because they had not come into contact with them. And this is where humanity will be tested again. Take a minute, read my whole post, and then present something credible. I can’t verify my claims when you aren’t noting them appropriately. Finally, yes, the Timeless One has a clearly fitted different description in Cryptum. Which is why the Didact states in Primordium; “I see now what you are”. That was meant as an implied revelation. Freed from his prison, the Precursor has gone on to assimilate a number of victims while on installation 07, and revealed his true self; a Gravemind. That is why Didact asks if all Precursors are Graveminds, which I present that they are.

9

Just throwing this out there to see your ideas on it. Is it possible that the Primordial is more like a “Professor” to administer the test. He does say that the Didact has to destroy that one so that another may be released, could that be taken that the Precursors learned from past mistakes with the Forerunners, and sent one Precursor, a higher class, or even a warrior class to give the test? If the last time (Forerunners firing the Halos timeframe) their messenger was killed. It could be one that volunteers for a possible suicide mission?

With what little we know of the Precursor war, and the little knowledge the Forerunners have of that time. Its impossible to know what lead up to that point. The Forerunners may have already had a run in with the Flood, and Collapsed a star sytem to stop them. Killing how many different species in the process. That may have been the test the Forerunners had, and they failed. For all we know they could have collapsed the star in the Precursors star system.

10

> Just throwing this out there to see your ideas on it. Is it possible that the Primordial is more like a “Professor” to administer the test. He does say that the Didact has to destroy that one so that another may be released, could that be taken that the Precursors learned from past mistakes with the Forerunners, and sent one Precursor, a higher class, or even a warrior class to give the test? If the last time (Forerunners firing the Halos timeframe) their messenger was killed. It could be one that volunteers for a possible suicide mission?
>
> With what little we know of the Precursor war, and the little knowledge the Forerunners have of that time. Its impossible to know what lead up to that point. The Forerunners may have already had a run in with the Flood, and Collapsed a star sytem to stop them. Killing how many different species in the process. That may have been the test the Forerunners had, and they failed. For all we know they could have collapsed the star in the Precursors star system.

True, but I am inclined to believe the Forerunners initial trial was not against the Flood, but against themselves, if you catch my meaning. The Forerunners behaved like Nazis, they rose above the other species and declared their way, full submission from all others, was the only way to adhere to the Mantle. It was a gross misunderstanding. It was made explicitly clear that the Forerunners realized the Precursors deemed them unworthy and were going to erase them, so instead they erased the Precursors. Once the Precursors fled, “creation continued”, I believe this statement implies the origins of the Flood.

And yes, I agree that the Primordial was sent on a suicide mission, once they had bonded with the Flood, it was decided one would be a Harbinger to the Answer. He states that they knew this would be killed, so another would be free. It’s all a carefully elaborate plan.

11

> So, I’m just trying to make sense over the events in the Forerunner Saga, and the larger HALO Universe. Perhaps you’ll bear with me and find something entertaining;
>
> __________
>
> “Plans within Plans within Plans”. If anything can easily summarize the HALO Universe, it is this key phrase. I’ve read Cryptum & Primordium again to try and comprehend some of the implications, debates about outright lies, and then the perspective of hindsight on these major events, and I’ve come to one conclusion; EVERYTHING is the Forerunners fault. The Precursors, also known as the Originals, came to our galaxy and seeded it with life.
>
> Again and again, they terminated entire civilizations that failed to uphold their strict code of morals, which the Forerunners would come to dub the Mantle. The Precursors sought a galaxy built on the fundamentals of peace and prosperity, but failed to find that in their creations. Until they created the Forerunners, and their sibling; Humanity. The Forerunners quickly advanced, their jumps in science and technology nearly rivaled the power that their Precursor “gods” possessed.
>
> And, for a fleeting moment, the Precursors thought it might be the Forerunners who could unite the Milky Way galaxy in peace. But the Forerunners wanted submission from the other races, not equality. They believed peace could only be achieved through force and strength. Any species who opposed the Forerunners, opposed the Mantle, and were swiftly struck down, devolved, or utterly destroyed.
>
> This angered the Precursors, and the decision was made that this galaxy would not be left to the Forerunners, instead, they would be wiped clean, and Humanity would claim the Mantle. But when the Forerunners realized the Precursors intended to erase them, they instead would make war, and erase their creators, who they believed had defied the Mantle. But, like everything else in the universe, life goes on, and a select few Precursors escaped, and creation continued in another galaxy.
>
> This was the horrible truth that so many humans were privy to, when the Last Precursor, The Primordial, was brought to Charum Hakkor, he revealed to them the origins of the Flood, and the transcendence his race had found; when the remaining Precursors fled, and creation continued, they realized the frailty of the universe, and what the Mantle truly represented.
>
> In these moments of experimentation, The Flood was born, their Answer to the Mantle. The Precursors bonded with the Flood and finally, they were Transsentient. This was the peace, the unity and quiet wisdom the entire universe required. Whether the galaxy would succumb, or struggle and unite together to combat the Flood, either way, peace and unity. Now the Precursors slumber, when one dies, another is awakened, to continue the cycle, and keep the Flood alive. So that humanity, when they are ripe, will finally be tested by the Precursors.
>
> When the Forerunners eradicated Humanity, devolved them and locked them away on Earth, the Precursors realized it was not humanity that should yet be judged, but the Forerunners time to come to an end, so that Humanity might one day be tested.

I agree with what you said exept the part with the precursors becoming the flood. The book was kind of vague on the flood precursor relationship I do believe they created the flood but I dont think they become them. I emailed Greg Bear with a question to this and he responded saying that he couldnt answer because all things would be revealed in his final book. I think that after a certain point a Gravemind has the ability to turn into something that it has consumed and I think that the precursor was the form it chose because it was the most advanced. We have never seen a gravemind in a different form than that of the flood we know. Your idea may be right Maybe the precursors did turn themselves into flood but the book was to vague to be certain. I think the most important thing we learned was that there is no cure to the flood, but then I have to ask myself what about Johnson he was immune. Maybe if there is no cure there can be an immunity but even then he was lucky because his immunity almost killed him.

12

> > So, I’m just trying to make sense over the events in the Forerunner Saga, and the larger HALO Universe. Perhaps you’ll bear with me and find something entertaining;
> >
> > __________
> >
> > “Plans within Plans within Plans”. If anything can easily summarize the HALO Universe, it is this key phrase. I’ve read Cryptum & Primordium again to try and comprehend some of the implications, debates about outright lies, and then the perspective of hindsight on these major events, and I’ve come to one conclusion; EVERYTHING is the Forerunners fault. The Precursors, also known as the Originals, came to our galaxy and seeded it with life.
> >
> > Again and again, they terminated entire civilizations that failed to uphold their strict code of morals, which the Forerunners would come to dub the Mantle. The Precursors sought a galaxy built on the fundamentals of peace and prosperity, but failed to find that in their creations. Until they created the Forerunners, and their sibling; Humanity. The Forerunners quickly advanced, their jumps in science and technology nearly rivaled the power that their Precursor “gods” possessed.
> >
> > And, for a fleeting moment, the Precursors thought it might be the Forerunners who could unite the Milky Way galaxy in peace. But the Forerunners wanted submission from the other races, not equality. They believed peace could only be achieved through force and strength. Any species who opposed the Forerunners, opposed the Mantle, and were swiftly struck down, devolved, or utterly destroyed.
> >
> > This angered the Precursors, and the decision was made that this galaxy would not be left to the Forerunners, instead, they would be wiped clean, and Humanity would claim the Mantle. But when the Forerunners realized the Precursors intended to erase them, they instead would make war, and erase their creators, who they believed had defied the Mantle. But, like everything else in the universe, life goes on, and a select few Precursors escaped, and creation continued in another galaxy.
> >
> > This was the horrible truth that so many humans were privy to, when the Last Precursor, The Primordial, was brought to Charum Hakkor, he revealed to them the origins of the Flood, and the transcendence his race had found; when the remaining Precursors fled, and creation continued, they realized the frailty of the universe, and what the Mantle truly represented.
> >
> > In these moments of experimentation, The Flood was born, their Answer to the Mantle. The Precursors bonded with the Flood and finally, they were Transsentient. This was the peace, the unity and quiet wisdom the entire universe required. Whether the galaxy would succumb, or struggle and unite together to combat the Flood, either way, peace and unity. Now the Precursors slumber, when one dies, another is awakened, to continue the cycle, and keep the Flood alive. So that humanity, when they are ripe, will finally be tested by the Precursors.
> >
> > When the Forerunners eradicated Humanity, devolved them and locked them away on Earth, the Precursors realized it was not humanity that should yet be judged, but the Forerunners time to come to an end, so that Humanity might one day be tested.
>
> I agree with what you said exept the part with the precursors becoming the flood. The book was kind of vague on the flood precursor relationship I do believe they created the flood but I dont think they become them. I emailed Greg Bear with a question to this and he responded saying that he couldnt answer because all things would be revealed in his final book. I think that after a certain point a Gravemind has the ability to turn into something that it has consumed and I think that the precursor was the form it chose because it was the most advanced. We have never seen a gravemind in a different form than that of the flood we know. Your idea may be right Maybe the precursors did turn themselves into flood but the book was to vague to be certain. I think the most important thing we learned was that there is no cure to the flood, but then I have to ask myself what about Johnson he was immune. Maybe if there is no cure there can be an immunity but even then he was lucky because his immunity almost killed him.

Well, again, the book leaves alot for interpretation, and this is simply how I have interpreted the events. I believe it is the most logical conclusion, but that is fueled by my own perceptions. I do not believe a Gravemind ever has the possibility of changing its shape or mass, but rather it just adds to it. But it can have extensions, if you will. Again, like Regret in H2 and 2401. The Primordial was an individual Precursor who, once free, started assimilating victims onto his Whole while on Installation 07, and he was creating Graveminds to further extend his power. I will always hold to the belief that, until proven wrong with concrete factual evidence, that the Precursors became highly advanced Flood, and are now synonymous with them. The Precursors became Graveminds, they assimilate, but are not like the creature we met in Halo 2, who was a Gravemind organized by the Flood itself. It’s an odd, vicious cycle.

13

> Well, again, the book leaves alot for interpretation, and this is simply how I have interpreted the events. I believe it is the most logical conclusion, but that is fueled by my own perceptions. I do not believe a Gravemind ever has the possibility of changing its shape or mass, but rather it just adds to it. But it can have extensions, if you will. Again, like Regret in H2 and 2401. The Primordial was an individual Precursor who, once free, started assimilating victims onto his Whole while on Installation 07, and he was creating Graveminds to further extend his power. I will always hold to the belief that, until proven wrong with concrete factual evidence, that the Precursors became highly advanced Flood, and are now synonymous with them. The Precursors became Graveminds, they assimilate, but are not like the creature we met in Halo 2, who was a Gravemind organized by the Flood itself. It’s an odd, vicious cycle.

I agree with your play on it, but part of what I meant would be that only one Precursor, the one administering the test would bond with the Flood, like a super Gravemind. And in turn would then create other lower graveminds like sattelite dishes, to diperse his signal to the other Flood, and tell them what and what not to infect. I still feel like the Precursors were more than just assimilating other species into the Flood. Which would explain why there is just that one Gravemind that looks like the Primordial. It would be kind of like a Forerunner Mutation. A single Precursor volunteers to administer this Test, the next part would get tricky. Either they have Graveminds for him to bond with on the Precursor homeworld, or they send out the Flood with the initial job of creating a Proto Gravemind, then the “Proffersor” comes in, absorbs that Gravemind, and begins the full testing.

One thing I like when adding this idea to what the Precursor looked like, Is that if he is assimilating different species into one whole. How many different species were put to this test before they got to the Humans and Forerunners? I still feel like this book is leading one to believe that ALL Precursor are Flood. I feel like if a species are deemed worthy of the Mantle, the Precursors accept them to their ranks. Like a U.N of sorts. And they are in charge of their own Galaxy. The Flood is simply a way for them to see what extent the species will go to to survive. I have also found the irony in the Primordial turning MB against his creators and then destroying themselves. It actually helps if you think that the Mantle is protector of life, becuase the Flood were never really at the brink of destroying the Forerunners completely, they had depleted their ranks, but the Forerunners resorted to destroying their own cities. To keep the flood from taking more hosts. It would seem there were still plenty of Forerunners left, and it did not seem the Flood were infecting anything else other than Forerunners, But yet the Forerunners chose to destroy everything. But again, also ammusingly, themselves.

And this is why I still feel the Mantle is a protector title, the Flood never destroyed a single race as far as we can tell. They stopped attacking Humans, if it was by choice, it is because they forced Humans to the brink, and they never sacrificed another species. And then the Flood went after Forerunners, but again, they never destroyed them, the Forerunners destroyed themselves.

14

> > Well, again, the book leaves alot for interpretation, and this is simply how I have interpreted the events. I believe it is the most logical conclusion, but that is fueled by my own perceptions. I do not believe a Gravemind ever has the possibility of changing its shape or mass, but rather it just adds to it. But it can have extensions, if you will. Again, like Regret in H2 and 2401. The Primordial was an individual Precursor who, once free, started assimilating victims onto his Whole while on Installation 07, and he was creating Graveminds to further extend his power. I will always hold to the belief that, until proven wrong with concrete factual evidence, that the Precursors became highly advanced Flood, and are now synonymous with them. The Precursors became Graveminds, they assimilate, but are not like the creature we met in Halo 2, who was a Gravemind organized by the Flood itself. It’s an odd, vicious cycle.
>
> I agree with your play on it, but part of what I meant would be that only one Precursor, the one administering the test would bond with the Flood, like a super Gravemind. And in turn would then create other lower graveminds like sattelite dishes, to diperse his signal to the other Flood, and tell them what and what not to infect. I still feel like the Precursors were more than just assimilating other species into the Flood. Which would explain why there is just that one Gravemind that looks like the Primordial. It would be kind of like a Forerunner Mutation. A single Precursor volunteers to administer this Test, the next part would get tricky. Either they have Graveminds for him to bond with on the Precursor homeworld, or they send out the Flood with the initial job of creating a Proto Gravemind, then the “Proffersor” comes in, absorbs that Gravemind, and begins the full testing.
>
> One thing I like when adding this idea to what the Precursor looked like, Is that if he is assimilating different species into one whole. How many different species were put to this test before they got to the Humans and Forerunners? I still feel like this book is leading one to believe that ALL Precursor are Flood. I feel like if a species are deemed worthy of the Mantle, the Precursors accept them to their ranks. Like a U.N of sorts. And they are in charge of their own Galaxy. The Flood is simply a way for them to see what extent the species will go to to survive. I have also found the irony in the Primordial turning MB against his creators and then destroying themselves. It actually helps if you think that the Mantle is protector of life, becuase the Flood were never really at the brink of destroying the Forerunners completely, they had depleted their ranks, but the Forerunners resorted to destroying their own cities. To keep the flood from taking more hosts. It would seem there were still plenty of Forerunners left, and it did not seem the Flood were infecting anything else other than Forerunners, But yet the Forerunners chose to destroy everything. But again, also ammusingly, themselves.
>
> And this is why I still feel the Mantle is a protector title, the Flood never destroyed a single race as far as we can tell. They stopped attacking Humans, if it was by choice, it is because they forced Humans to the brink, and they never sacrificed another species. And then the Flood went after Forerunners, but again, they never destroyed them, the Forerunners destroyed themselves.

Exactly! That’s it exactly! I believe the Primordial chose to stop the initial attack on humanity for two reasons; one, because the Forerunners became involved. And two, The Primordial, being a Precursor, saw that humanity banded together, and sacrificed only themselves to stop the Flood outbreak, if that is not a testament to Guardianship, i don’t know what is. This is what the Primordial meant by “long study”. Through those 10,000 years, he observed humanity and Forerunner. And the decision was made that Humanity, when they are ripe, would finally be tested on their own merits.

Now, I feel like we’re on the same page, and I completely misunderstood what you meant by “the Professor” before, but I can totally wrap my head around that logic. It makes perfect sense. After all, a primordial is the earliest stage of development, this is clearly what he was. The Professor, henceforth be known, would administer the Flood Super Cell and evolve into one of the Transsentient beings, and that was the purpose of the “Lower Gravemind” units. Satellite dishes! I love it! I still hold to the belief the the Precursors were one race, like the Forerunners, but now, like maybe less than a handful remain, and they have evolved into a “Transsentient Mind”. Brilliant reasoning there! I have to gather my thoughts on this.

15

So one of the big questions now is who are we fighting in Halo 4? I think it will be whatever was said to replace TO? Perhaps now limited to Forerunner tech to do it’s work(perhaps as the new test although it could have just meant the flood again). I’ll try to get more into this topic tomorrow as I got class tomorrow and am turning in but great jobs guys for getting this all sorted out.

16

> So one of the big questions now is who are we fighting in Halo 4? I think it will be whatever was said to replace TO? Perhaps now limited to Forerunner tech to do it’s work(perhaps as the new test although it could have just meant the flood again). I’ll try to get more into this topic tomorrow as I got class tomorrow and am turning in but great jobs guys for getting this all sorted out.

All we know is that it is an Ancient Enemy. For me, I am lead to believe that represents either the Precursors, or Faber, acting as a tool to the Precursors.

17

I think humanity and the elites will recrut other races and create the new covenant. I remember watching frankys commentary on orgins 2. He said that not all of what we see in the ep. has happened, that some might be hints toward battles to come. There we see humans, elites, gruntc, etc, fighting together against the flood. Where the forunner come in, im not realy sure Xd

18

Wouldn’t be surprised if the first of the trilogy introduces a group of forerunners who have allied with the precursors (faber, as said above), and that gradually turns into the flood and the precursors themselves.

19

> Wouldn’t be surprised if the first of the trilogy introduces a group of forerunners who have allied with the precursors (faber, as said above), and that gradually turns into the flood and the precursors themselves.

That’s exactly what I’m leaning towards. Faber strikes me as someone slimy enough to bargain with the lives of his own kind, and especially against humanity, as he has a natural distaste for them. I fully expect Faber to be a major antagonist, along with the Precursor foe. And it would do well to introduce new enemies, as I see us fighting mostly machines with manipulated Forerunners and new Flood types thrown in.

20

Yeah, we need something with uh…meat to fight, and evil forerunner fit that gap well. That does give us a good overall list.

evil Forerunners
Forerunner machines of all sorts
Flood forms of all sorts, both new and old, maybe even graveminds.
precursor(s?)