Precursors = Dr. Frankenstein?

Now I was skimming through Halo: Cryptum, and came across an interesting quote that sparked a thought in my mind.

Below is a quote from the Didact’s dead children, speaking in memories to Bornestellar:

> “A chorus of voices rose from the sphinxes-etched and hollow. I could understand only a few chopped phrases:
> ‘They are out there, waiting …’
> ‘Thousands of years wasted!’
> ‘The solution was lost Father … Lost!’
> ’If what the Old Ones made is loose …'
>
> I stepped away from the ellipse, terrified.”

Now, the first few phrases that his children muttered are pretty self explanatory. “They are out there, waiting …” refers to the flood actually existing, when some forerunners believed it was a human made myth.

“Thousands of years wasted!” implies the time the Forerunners wasted when they exterminated the humans and later quarreled among themselves instead of finding the cure.

“The solution was lost Father … Lost!” clearly means with the de-evolution of the humans, their secret of the cure to the flood was lost.

Now we move on to the most interesting part.

> “If what the Old Ones made is loose …”

This line is very intriguing. To the Forerunners, the ‘Old Ones’ are unquestionably the Precursors. This line is referring to the release of the Primordial on Charum Hakkor. But it’s important to pay attention to how this line is worded. They used the word ‘made’. This could mean that the Primordial was more of a science project by the Precursors. Kind of like Dr. Frankenstein’s Monster.

Now this is where my idea takes another twist. If you combine this with what the Primordial said in Halo: Primordium, where he tells the Didact there is no difference between the Precursors and the Flood, it is actually telling the Didact that the Precursors suffered the fate of their creation and were consumed by the Flood. The Primordial did not lie to the Didact, it just found a tricky way around the explanation. The Precursors created the Flood and were consumed. They were taken in because of their spite of not defeating the Forerunners. They could not wipe clean their creation that failed the Mantle, so they created the Flood, something to finish their job against the Forerunners. They did not realize however, that what they created had the potential to be stronger than not only the Forerunners, but the Precursors as well.

Hmm. Very interesting.

Don’t forget, however, that the Primordial also made a reference to another group of Precursors. I don’t have the book near by, so I’ll try and fine the quote later. From that, however, it seemed that some Precursors wanted to merge with the Flood, and others didn’t.

I like that idea. It makes sense too. Do you think it’s possible though the Flood was always the Precursors? Or is it more plausible that they created the Flood as a revenge tool?

i always held an idea that the Precursors created the Flood as a way to eliminate those species like the Forerunners felt they were doing to them initially. Or even they use the Flood as their test. And they have sent the Flood after the Forerunners before.

> Hmm. Very interesting.
>
> Don’t forget, however, that the Primordial also made a reference to another group of Precursors. I don’t have the book near by, so I’ll try and fine the quote later. From that, however, it seemed that some Precursors wanted to merge with the Flood, and others didn’t.

Please do find the quote. That is indeed interesting. I only have the audiobook of Primordium and not the actual text copy unfortunately. Maybe the group that wanted to merge was the group that created it? That would make sense.

I think the Ur-Didact (and his children, apparently) actually knows more about the precursors and the origin of the flood than he really had time to tell us. The description of silentium seems to imply that he will tell us the rest of the story in the book.

Silentiums description also says something along the lines of “10 million years ago an act of great barbarism took place outside our galaxy”. That could mean the precursors created the flood and were barbarically consumed by it, or they barbarically sacrificed themselves and let themselves be consumed by it, or something else altogether.

> I think the Ur-Didact (and his children, apparently) actually knows more about the precursors and the origin of the flood than he really had time to tell us. The description of silentium seems to imply that he will tell us the rest of the story in the book.
>
> Silentiums description also says something along the lines of “10 million years ago an act of great barbarism took place outside our galaxy”. That could mean the precursors created the flood and were barbarically consumed by it, or they barbarically sacrificed themselves and let themselves be consumed by it, or something else altogether.

I completely forgot about that, but it is extremely helpful as well. This could explain why his children know all of this. And the whole barbaric act thing fits as well. Thank you.

> Those who created you were defied and hunted. Most were extinguished. A few fed beyond your reach. Creation continued.

This implies a distinction between the Precursors who seeded the galaxy and “tested” various life forms, and the Flood.

> “How can you control any of this? You’re stuck here - the last of your kind!”
>
> “The last of this kind.”

An exchange between the Didact and the Primodrial.

So, Avu, I think you may be onto something with your theory. The text does support it.

This is a good look at it. I know someone brought up the movie Prometheus in these forums, and in my opinion if your theory is correct, the Flood are basically the Xenomorphs in Prometheus. Something created by essentially “Gods” or really advanced beings in order to wipe out inferior races or uncivilized species. Then it turned on them.

Even though creating them out of barbarism just for revenge seems like a plausible story connection to all of this, I always thought there was more to it, and that the Flood were not created for the sole purpose of revenge.

Thank you Toa Freak for those quotes. It’s fascinating to see that Primordium backs this idea up. And Persico12, while I have not seen that movie, I think having the Flood not be some regular process, but rather a creation purely out of vengance and spite makes them seem much more dangerous and inherently evil.

I am not sure if i agree with this.

The thousands of years wasted was a reference to the forerunners spending time arguing over political struggles instead of spending that time studying the flood. It didn’t take thousands of years for them to wipe out the humans since there weren’t even that many humans left once hakkor fell.

I can see how you guys takes the old ones as the precursors I can’t really contest that.

Double posted…

> I am not sure if i agree with this.
>
>
> The thousands of years wasted was a reference to the forerunners spending time arguing over political struggles instead of spending that time studying the flood. It didn’t take thousands of years for them to wipe out the humans since there weren’t even that many humans left once hakkor fell.
>
>
> I can see how you guys takes the old ones as the precursors I can’t really contest that.

Well, the Human- Forerunner War lasted a thousand years, and as you said afterwards Forerunners still didn’t even believe the Flood existed. So I guess you could say it’s a combination of the two but the point remains they wasted the years not searching for a cure. I’ll add that to the OP.

> > I am not sure if i agree with this.
> >
> >
> > The thousands of years wasted was a reference to the forerunners spending time arguing over political struggles instead of spending that time studying the flood. It didn’t take thousands of years for them to wipe out the humans since there weren’t even that many humans left once hakkor fell.
> >
> >
> > I can see how you guys takes the old ones as the precursors I can’t really contest that.
>
> Well, the Human- Forerunner War lasted a thousand years, and as you said afterwards Forerunners still didn’t even believe the Flood existed. So I guess you could say it’s a combination of the two but the point remains they wasted the years not searching for a cure. I’ll add that to the OP.

Pg. 189 in Primordium…

> Back then the Flood was known to some Forerunners, but kept secret until it’s nature and extent could no longer be concealed. Almost immediately after the Forerunner victory over the humans, many of their captured records were translated, and Forerunners learned that humans had already encountered encountered this so-called shaping sickness

The Forerunners knew of the Flood even before the end of the Human war, it wasn’t until the end that they realized humans came in contact with the Flood.

And where is it stated that the war lasted a thousand years?

The passage says the Flood’s existence was witheld from almost all Forerunners, so I doubt they were researching the Flood, especially with no specimens. That also goes with the Didact’s child’s testament, because she said the time was wasted. The only reason the Flood’s existence became known to all Forerunners was when the Forerunner Primary Pioneer Group landed on Seaward and were attacked by infected Forerunner that were living there in privacy. That is all stated in Soma the Painter.

As for the time of the war, I’m not going to get into specifics because it gets confusing and I am definitely not a math major, but using the time mentioned in Cryptum on page 45, plus the known time of Mendicant Bias invading the Forerunner Capital, and the fact that on page 131 of Cryptum it is said that the conflict ended 9,000 years ago, the time of the war can be set between approximately 110,000 BCE-109,000 BCE, which is a 1,000 year war.

> > "A chorus of voices rose from the sphinxes-etched and hollow. I could understand only a few chopped phrases:
> > ‘They are out there, waiting …’
> > ‘Thousands of years wasted!’
> > ‘The solution was lost, Father … Lost!’
> > ’If what the Old Ones made is loose …'
>
> Is it possible the “they are out there waiting” line refers to the Precursors that escaped the galaxy?
>
>
> Definitely agree on the second line; I still wanna know the true facts on the “cure” and if it existed or as the Primordial said, the Flood chose not to infect.
>
> The last line, to me, could refer to the Flood or Primordial. I’m not sure if the Precursors made the Primordial, though. The theory I’m sticking with for now is that the Primordial was once a Precursor, volunteered himself to be infected and became a literal Primordial, able to produce the powder that would turn into the Flood. That’s just me, though.

> The passage says the Flood’s existence was witheld from almost all Forerunners, so I doubt they were researching the Flood, especially with no specimens. That also goes with the Didact’s child’s testament, because she said the time was wasted. The only reason the Flood’s existence became known to all Forerunners was when the Forerunner Primary Pioneer Group landed on Seaward and were attacked by infected Forerunner that were living there in privacy. That is all stated in Soma the Painter.

Makes sense

> As for the time of the war, I’m not going to get into specifics because it gets confusing and I am definitely not a math major, but using the time mentioned in Cryptum on page 45, plus the known time of Mendicant Bias invading the Forerunner Capital, and the fact that on page 131 of Cryptum it is said that the conflict ended 9,000 years ago, the time of the war can be set between approximately 110,000 BCE-109,000 BCE, which is a 1,000 year war.

Hmmm… I see what you are saying…However that would be odd, considering the Humans defended Charum Hakkor better than any other planet. That was the center of their empire. And Forthencho says that only lasted 3 years. Why would such an important planet fall in 3 years and the entire war last that long. And as Deva said previously, the Humans were devestated by the Flood. They wouldn’t have the resources or the manpower to survive 1000 years of war.

So let me ask this considering most people in this topic agree with most of this theory. The “Ancient Evil Awakening” headline could be reference to what? Obviously the Didact would be the obvious answer, but would they really label the saga off the enemy who isn’t the true enemy or perhaps not one at all?

Idk, we know of the Flood, so it would seem strange to label them an ancient evil that awakens. Maybe this question seems a bit off topic but I think it comes full circle in the end because if the Precursors are “awakening” wouldn’t it just be to kill off Forerunner? Not us…?

And on the point of the time frame, I would assume it was hundreds of years. Idk about 1,000, but I don’t think it is that farfetched to say it was.

> So let me ask this considering most people in this topic agree with most of this theory. The “Ancient Evil Awakening” headline could be reference to what? Obviously the Didact would be the obvious answer, but would they really label the saga off the enemy who isn’t the true enemy or perhaps not one at all?
>
> Idk, we know of the Flood, so it would seem strange to label them an ancient evil that awakens. Maybe this question seems a bit off topic but I think it comes full circle in the end because if the Precursors are “awakening” wouldn’t it just be to kill off Forerunner? Not us…?

Remember, the Precursors would kill off any of their creations that wasn’t deemed worthy of inheriting the Mantle, so perhaps we failed our test.

In any case, there’s no way the Didact is the ancient evil. He would have to make a major character change in Halo Silentium (which is possible). In addition, 343 stated, after E3, that the Ancient evil had yet to be revealed. As such, this also weighs against the Didact being the enemy, as he was, in a couple ways, featured in the E3 trailer.

> > So let me ask this considering most people in this topic agree with most of this theory. The “Ancient Evil Awakening” headline could be reference to what? Obviously the Didact would be the obvious answer, but would they really label the saga off the enemy who isn’t the true enemy or perhaps not one at all?
> >
> > Idk, we know of the Flood, so it would seem strange to label them an ancient evil that awakens. Maybe this question seems a bit off topic but I think it comes full circle in the end because if the Precursors are “awakening” wouldn’t it just be to kill off Forerunner? Not us…?
>
> Remember, the Precursors would kill off any of their creations that wasn’t deemed worthy of inheriting the Mantle, so perhaps we failed our test.
>
> In any case, there’s no way the Didact is the ancient evil. He would have to make a major character change in Halo Silentium (which is possible). In addition, 343 stated, after E3, that the Ancient evil had yet to be revealed. As such, this also weighs against the Didact being the enemy, as he was, in a couple ways, featured in the E3 trailer.

Yea that’s true, I guess I was not even thinking about if we failed already.

> > As for the time of the war, I’m not going to get into specifics because it gets confusing and I am definitely not a math major, but using the time mentioned in Cryptum on page 45, plus the known time of Mendicant Bias invading the Forerunner Capital, and the fact that on page 131 of Cryptum it is said that the conflict ended 9,000 years ago, the time of the war can be set between approximately 110,000 BCE-109,000 BCE, which is a 1,000 year war.
>
> Hmmm… I see what you are saying…However that would be odd, considering the Humans defended Charum Hakkor better than any other planet. That was the center of their empire. And Forthencho says that only lasted 3 years. Why would such an important planet fall in 3 years and the entire war last that long. And as Deva said previously, the Humans were devestated by the Flood. They wouldn’t have the resources or the manpower to survive 1000 years of war.

That’s not that farfetched. That kind of timing happens all the time in sci-fi. As a shorter example, think about the Ancient-Wraith War from Stargate: Atlantis. The war with the Wraith lasted hundred of years, but once the Ancients fell back to Atlantis, it only a few years until the war was lost and the Ancients fled to Earth.

Although it is their main planet and very well defended, the sheer overwhelming might of the Forerunner military would cause a quick Human defeat at Charum Hakkor.

As well, the thousand year portion may mean that they took their time during the war, both sides being Tier 1, long-lived (nee immortal) species. The end at Charum Hakkor may have been quick as it was over one world, not a territory of dozens or hundreds.