BTB has made me realize just how bad of an idea bloom is in a Halo game. Something that we already learned 11 years ago when Halo Reach came out. Why they thought that it was a good idea blows me away. It’s causing the exact same issues as it did then, but the faster ttk makes it feel even more cheap as you can’t really react to anything.
I don’t know how you balance weapons like the Commando without bloom. It seems integral to the design of the gun. All I know is that losing a fight because I’m timing my shots and the other person is clearly not sucks, and I don’t want this to have the same horrible gunfight mechanics from Reach.
The bloom is so minor that the only shot worth timing is the final shot. Center mass at max bloom will tag at pretty much any range you’d find it effective at anyway.
Sidekick’s the same. You can spam the heck out of it and it’ll connect with every shot, then just ease off the trigger a second to line up the headshot and you’re golden.
The issue I’m running into is that my range is severely limited with these guns while playing on controller. Their red reticle range drop off is so short. And once you’re kicked out of the Commando’s scope on controller it’s game over.
> 2533274810177460;2:
> The bloom is so minor that the only shot worth timing is the final shot. Center mass at max bloom will tag at pretty much any range you’d find it effective at anyway.
>
> Sidekick’s the same. You can spam the heck out of it and it’ll connect with every shot, then just ease off the trigger a second to line up the headshot and you’re golden.
>
> The issue I’m running into is that my range is severely limited with these guns while playing on controller. Their red reticle range drop off is so short. And once you’re kicked out of the Commando’s scope on controller it’s game over.
It’s to the point on the Commando that I don’t even use the full auto. The bloom makes it basically unusable outside of RRR, which is like 75% of fights. I agree with you on the RRR issue.
> 2533274800772611;1:
> All I know is that losing a fight because I’m timing my shots and the other person is clearly not sucks, and I don’t want this to have the same horrible gunfight mechanics from Reach.
I’m not an aiming expert… it took me ages to even realise bloom was in the game!
But isn’t this just an example of better aim? Bloom just means the shots can appear anywhere inside the (growing) reticle.
At mid range you just need to get your reticle centred on the mass of the target. As long as none of the reticle has open air - none of your shots will miss. I imagine the ‘spammer’ is being better at keeping their reticle centred on an appropriate body mass. The pacing mentioned by Fos Kuval of timing your headshot is a bit of skill gap.
The bloom in this game blows chunks, I have no idea what some of you are on that you consider bloom on things like the Commando and Sidekick “minor.”
There is no justification for bloom on weapons that ostensibly revolve around precision, “pacing” is not and has never been a skill. Relitigating bloom this long after Reach is incredibly tiresome.
We could have projectile weapons or sensible design, but no we are stuck with hitscan and bloom and people are still defending this braindead mechanic.
> 2533274800772611;1:
> BTB has made me realize just how bad of an idea bloom is in a Halo game. Something that we already learned 11 years ago when Halo Reach came out. Why they thought that it was a good idea blows me away. It’s causing the exact same issues as it did then, but the faster ttk makes it feel even more cheap as you can’t really react to anything.
>
> I don’t know how you balance weapons like the Commando without bloom. It seems integral to the design of the gun. All I know is that losing a fight because I’m timing my shots and the other person is clearly not sucks, and I don’t want this to have the same horrible gunfight mechanics from Reach.
I like it becuz its a trade off but i wish there was a way to make it not rely so much on luck
> 2585548714655118;5:
> > 2533274800772611;1:
> > All I know is that losing a fight because I’m timing my shots and the other person is clearly not sucks, and I don’t want this to have the same horrible gunfight mechanics from Reach.
>
> I’m not an aiming expert… it took me ages to even realise bloom was in the game!
>
> But isn’t this just an example of better aim? Bloom just means the shots can appear anywhere inside the (growing) reticle.
>
> At mid range you just need to get your reticle centred on the mass of the target. As long as none of the reticle has open air - none of your shots will miss. I imagine the ‘spammer’ is being better at keeping their reticle centred on an appropriate body mass. The pacing mentioned by Fos Kuval of timing your headshot is a bit of skill gap.
The problem is that it should be, but it’s not. If you don’t pace your shots then you have a random chance of hitting the headshot anyways, and thats what feels bad. I can pace my shots, the “skilled” way, and still lose fights.
> 2533274819446242;6:
> The bloom in this game blows chunks, I have no idea what some of you are on that you consider bloom on things like the Commando and Sidekick “minor.”
>
> There is no justification for bloom on weapons that ostensibly revolve around precision, “pacing” is not and has never been a skill. Relitigating bloom this long after Reach is incredibly tiresome.
>
> We could have projectile weapons or sensible design, but no we are stuck with hitscan and bloom and people are still defending this braindead mechanic.
It’s insane to me. This weekend has made it extra obvious with the longer range fights taking place. Bloom has no place in the series and Reach proved that. Kind of insane that they brought it back.
> 2533274806883637;10:
> Bloom prevents spamming. If they’re going to remove it, precision weapon damage should be nerfed big time.
Its not “spamming” to fire a weapon at its intended fire rate. How about we make it actually difficult to land shots at range via projectile weapon rather than being stuck with either molasses slow weapons or rng instead?
> 2568124073238676;13:
> I just don’t get the commando having a lot of recoil and bloom while the BR has neither.
The BR does have recoil. But it’s TTK is also an entire second slower than the Commando’s is. The BR is designed to be consistent at any range, while the Commando is designed to be extremely consistent and powerful up until a specific range, where it loses its consistency and the BR is meant to take over as the optimal choice.
This is in theory also supposed to be true for the Sidekick. One issue though, is that since the RRR of these weapons is much shorter than the range at which Bloom affects their consistency enough to push them out of effectiveness, M&K players get a ton more range out of these weapons than controller players do. With a Sidekick they can easily cap players at ranges controllers absolutely require a BR or Commando to stand a chance at.
Bloom is stupid and so is random recoil, it’s random. Recoil in CSGO works because they have consistent patterns. Making slight adjustments in aim to compensate for a consistent and learnable recoil is a skill, it is skillful, it raises the skill ceiling. You can’t learn bloom beyond knowing which distance you can spam shots then wait for the headshot and hope the random spam doesn’t miss. Any further pacing leads to a notably slower kill time which then gets ousted by the AR which has no real aim requirement other than aim feeling murky in general at the moment.
Lengthen the kill time, make recoil consistent if not remove, remove bloom, balance the bloomless weapon around the sandbox by adjusting RRR, killtime, rate of fire etc. The effort to re-introduce these mechanics was far more labour intensive than having none and adjusting accordingly. 2 known mechanics that with both Reach and 4 were universally panned by all walks of the playerbase were re-introduced, what a dumb decision all round.
A gun without random recoil and bloom isn’t spam, it’s only spam when there’s random aim requirements that can’t guarantee consistency.
> 2533274819446242;11:
> > 2533274806883637;10:
> > Bloom prevents spamming. If they’re going to remove it, precision weapon damage should be nerfed big time.
>
> Its not “spamming” to fire a weapon at its intended fire rate. How about we make it actually difficult to land shots at range via projectile weapon rather than being stuck with either molasses slow weapons or rng instead?
Exactly. On precision weapons the only way to balance the guns is either to make them projectile or to build in a hard limit with fire rate. Bloom is fine on automatics, as long as they do not have a headshot modifier.