Precision Weapon Balancing, A New Way.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So many people keep saying the DMR and LR cannot be made to fit into Load-outs, and should hence forth be beefed up slightly, and made low tier power weapons. I disagree. I think the potential to make them fit load-outs is there, you just have to think outside the box.

I think all relative factions should have Three precision weapons: A Long/Medium Range Rifle, A Medium/Close Range Rifle, and a pistol. Now the problem we have had with Halo’s newest Precision Rifles, the DMR and the LR, is their effective scope range. and that is where we have our fall. But first, my weapon suggestions (not all mine):

Long/Medium Range Weapons:
Long/Medium (I will hence forth refer to as L/M) now gain the following trait: with the popular wish for less powerful aim assist, I would suggest this. In Halo 5, The Aim Assist for Long Range weapons is better than that of Medium/Close (Hence Forth will be M/C), but only when Zoomed in, and they receive NO Aim Assist out side of zoom, meaning the really are restricted to long rage game-play, and are not useless at close range, but much harder to use. They also have Bloom, or something else that lowers their over all accuracy (optional).

DMR:
5 shot kill, 2x Scope(changed from 3x), regains a little Bloom from Reach (but not all of it).

LR:
Has all its current traits, but with a 2x Scope (you will now see the trend), again, now has some bloom, but only when Zoomed in.

(New, My Idea) Thorn Rife (TR):
Only available in Multiplayer, Spartan-Ops and Firefight, this is a new weapon that was made by Brutes.
It is a 4 shot kill, has the slowest fire rate and most recoil and a little less aim assist (still more zoomed in than M/C range weapons), but has a slight stun feature, slowing players a little (not as much as a Hi-Jack) again, a 2x scope.

Alternative to TR:
A Needle rifle that is 7 shot kill, 2x scope, fastest fire rate and the other effective L/M traits. (I feel the TR has more character)

The 2x scope fix is to prevent cross-mapping as effectively, now there are just better at the BR/Carbines’s previous maximum effective range, but worse than the minimum effective range.

Medium/Close Range Weapons:
Again, now we have the far less Aim Assist return assumed, these weapons have an over universal Aim Assist, as to say, their aim assist benefit comes in the fact that they get Aim Assist both scoped and un-scoped, but it isn’t as powerful as a zoomed L/M range weapon. the fact they retain Aim Assist while scoped gives them a fighting chance against L/M weapons, but because the the L/M don’t have any Aim Assist outside scope, they find that their at a disadvantage at the M/C secondary effective range.

BR:
4 Shot Kill, basically a port of Halo 4’s BR.

Carbine:
7 shot Kill, again, a port of Halo 4’s Carbine.

(New, My Idea) Molten Rifle:
A new Promethean/Forerunner weapon, this thing is very unique apart from one thing in that it shares a two fire mode system with the LR.

Mode One: Un-Zoomed:
This Weapons un-zoomed mode will have a magazine of 15 shots, that are fired at a faster rate than the BR, but slower than the Carbine. It is also “Automatic” in the same style as the needle rifle or Hand Cannon. but has a fair bit of recoil, it is a 5 shot kill. Whats so special I hear you cry? you are about to find out…

Mode Two: Zoomed:
This is where “Molten” comes into play. the weapon becomes a potential 2 shot kill, has less Assist (the lowest of all precision rifles, but not by much) but its magazine drops to FIVE shots. Why? because the first shot doesn’t deal all that Damage in one go, oh no, it drains all their shields with a DoT lasting 2 seconds, you can fire again by 1 second, but if you want the kill, you need to strafe until you see their shields pop, and then fire. firing again will only make their shields drain a little fast, but this only stacks once, and can get you killed because you might not be able to fire your next shot before they kill you. the shots DoT will not damage after their is no shields, unless you place another shot on them after this that isn’t a head-shot (a head-shot still kills a un-shielded enemy) the shots required to kill an un-shielded opponent are two (like plasma, it isn’t good on health) but cause the shots are DoT, the result is a 1 for 1 in most cases, as the time to do this would be about four seconds, a 2 shot kill is two seconds at lowest.

This system for M/C means players that prefer these can have a chance against L/M weapons at long range while over all defeating them at close range.

Pistols:
These weapon would be an exact opposite in term of Aim Assist to L/M Precision Rifles. They would have the Aim Assist of the Thorn Rifle at un-zoomed, but none zoomed, and would have power appropriate to a side arm. aka, they are the power of their rifle counter parts, with less ammo per magazine. all Pistols would have a 1.5x zoom

Magnum:
Halo 4 port, this is a good weapon.

(New, Not my Idea)Needle Pistol:
The reason I thought that a new weapon to be a Covenant/Brute/Storm Long Range was because of this. it would have a 10 magazine, a 7 shot kill (10 when not head shots), this means a 3 shot error margin, same as the Magnum, and if you cant get a head-shot, you need the full mag to kill.

Boltshot (revised):
This weapon would now have an increased magazine, to twelve shots. it would be a 8 shot kill, have the fastest fire rate, but again, all twelve shots are required to kill without head-shot. now, the charge up shotgun effect takes the FULL animation (should take 3-4 seconds) and only drains enough shields two reform a melee, and even then, only if every “Bolt” hits (but there are now only 8 bolts, every bolt removes 1/9 of their shields, if we can still melee kill when they have low shields, if not, 1/8 per bolt), it also leaves the player with 4 shots in their magazine, they cannot fire off another shotgun overcharge now, and have to head-shot or melee, and a melee is only available if all shots hit, so head-shots will be more common, and may even become a preferred way to fire it. there is also a limiting factor in that the Overcharge can only drop shields if they are damaged or not, never kill on overcharge unless the foe is completely un-shielded.

2

The DMR is not going to step down a notch on the distance it can zoom, downgrade. The Needle Rifle you mentioned is essentially a Carbine. Glad somebody is thinking outside the box, but for the most part I disagree.

3

The actual issues that long range weapons like the DMR or LR have caused as loadout options would still exist with your suggestions.
They would still discourage map movement and lead to static long range battles simply because of their effective range: long range.
Making them harder to use by reducing the aim assist when un-scoped would encourage people even more to fight each other from across the map, in my opinion.
Besides, giving those weapons bloom would likely create weapons that could not effectively dominate the other precision weapons in their own niche (long range), especially when they would even receive a downgrade in their zoom.

I think the only proper way to solve this issue is to simply place them on the map as semi-power weapons.

4

Personally, I liked the Needle Rifle. It was cool looking, and was pretty nice to have in Halo: Reach “Invasion”. The Needle Rifle, as well as Invasion should make a comeback.

These are very interesting ideas. Keep it up! Posts like these often gather attention and are constructive, and who knows, you could affect how 343i makes the next Halo game! Unlike “AStreamOfCream” (lol) I mostly agree with your ideas. Though the “Thorn Rifle”, while a ranged Brute weapon would be really cool, the stun ability would be a annoying to be used against. Maybe some sort of other attribute could be added?

Personally, I sorta like Custom Loadouts in Halo. As long as everything is well applied, balanced and skill-based, I’m fine. I like how Custom Loadouts adhere to the different play-styles of each player, or change your spawn weapons to the appropriate map (For example, BR for Haven, or DMR for Ragnarok, etc.).

5

Straight to the point edition:

> I think all relative factions should have Three precision weapons: A Long/Medium Range Rifle, A Medium/Close Range Rifle, and a pistol.
>
> Long/Medium Range Weapons:
> -More aim assist when scoped.
> -No aim assist outside of zoom.
> -Bloom or other accuracy-impinging element.
>
>
>
>
> DMR:
> 5sk
> 2x Scope
> Slight bloom.
>
> LR:
> 4sk
> 2x Scope.
> Kills faster when scoped.
> Kills slower when unscoped.
> Slight bloom when zoomed in.
>
> Thorn Rife:
> 4sk
> 2x Scope.
> Slowest fire rate.
> Most recoil.
> Less aim assist then aforementioned rifles.
> Slight stun effect.
>
> Needle rifle:
> 7sk.
> 2x cope.
> Fastest firsing rate.
> Slight stun effect.
>
>
> Medium/Close Range Weapons:
> -Get Aim Assist both scoped and un-scoped.
> -Scoped aim assist isn’t as effective as long range weapon aim assist.
> -More aim assist unscoped than long range weapons.
>
>
>
>
> BR:
> 4sk, basically a port of Halo 4’s BR.
>
> Carbine:
> 7sk, again, a port of Halo 4’s Carbine.
>
> Molten Rifle:
> 5sk Unscoped
> Significant recoil.
> Very low aim assist when scoped.
> Scoped fire has a DoT effect.
> Scoped fire potential 2sk (one to drain shields, one to finish).
>
>
>
> Pistols:
> -They would have the Aim Assist of the Thorn Rifle unscoped.
> -No aim assist when scoped.
> -Power equivalent to rifles, with less ammo.
> -1.5x zoom
>
>
>
> Magnum:
> Halo 4 port, this is a good weapon.
>
> Needle Pistol:
> 7sk at 100% headshots.
> 10sk without headshots.
> 10 ‘bullet’ magazine.
>
> Boltshot (revised):
> 8sk at 100% headshots.
> 12sk without headshots.
> 12 ‘bullet’ magazine.
> Charge fires a 8-round burst of bolts.
> Charge completely strips shields if all bolts hit.
> Charge takes three seconds.
>
>

Let’s start with the aim assist. Well, first of all, completely removing aim assist is an extreme measure to take. Long range weapons would get completely destroyed at close range. And while we do want medium range weapons to be better at medium range, we don’t want to encourage rock-paper-scissors gameplay.

On the other hand, long range weapons don’t need more aim assist. You need to understand the concept of field of view. Closer targets will appear to be moving faster than further ones, and you will need to move your crosshair faster to track them. Try headshotting someone circling you at point blank range, then try doing the same to someone at long range.

The farther away a target is, the easier they are to hit. This is of course assuming hitscan, and not projectile. Also, adding bloom ontop of zero aim assist will render the weapon pretty much unusable.

Next will be long-range rifles. Other than shots to kill, there doesn’t seem to be much difference between the DMR and LR. We really only need one of them. As for the Needle Rifle, I suppose we could give it an inferior killtime to make up for it’s stun effect. Though how the stun effect will impact gameplay is another discussion entirely.

The Thorn rifle is, frankly, useless. It’s inferior in every way, just to accomodate the stun effect.

Medium-range rifles. The Carbine and Battle Rifle aren’t anything new, so I won’t go there. I will say they play out pretty much the exact same, and thus we again only truly need one of them.

I do like the concept of the Molten Rifle. It encourages utilizing cover to deal burst damage while you remain untouched. At the same time, it probably isn’t as effective as the Battle Rifle for out in the open fighting. Unlike the Carbine, it promotes a unique playstyle. I’m not sure such a weapon is balanced for loadouts, but it is a neat idea regardless.

Sidearms. More information is needed. You say they have different killtimes depending on if they are 100% headshots or not. But we would need to know what damage modifier actually makes this possible. In order to change a 12sk to an 8sk, you would need a modifier of 1.5x damage. This is a clean number. Going from 10sk to 7sk though is 1.4285714 so on. Not so much.

And again, there seem to be redundancies. I’m going to assume the Needle Pistol is a more skillful upgrade to the magnum (as it requires every shot to be a headshot for its maximum killtime, while the magnum does not). Not ideal balance, as it leaves the Magnum as a crutch, but it works regardless.

As for the Boltshot, unless it had a very significant range increase, you would be better off meleeing someone than waiting three seconds for it to charge up.

6

> Straight to the point edition:

Thank you for your detailed Input and summarized version of my system, big thanks for that :).

I want to talk about your issues with it.

  1. No un-zoomed Aim Assist:
    Alright, this is more obvious. Upon you bringing it up, I feel inclined to agree. I listed no aim assist un-zoomed as it was more revolutionary. but if Automatics are to stay powerful, then I agree, they should be given a weaker Aim Assist than the Universal Aim Assist of M/C Precision Rifles, same goes for zoomed pistols, In full agreement.

  2. Extra Aim Assist on L/M Rifles:
    I see where you are coming from, but how would you tackle this? I think we need to have all Precision Rifles at 2x Scope to truly balance them, and their physics/mechanics should determine their range effectiveness. How about faster projectile velocity on long range weapons so they are more likely to hit their mark over longer range, and dropping bloom for spread/recoil?

  3. Weapon Variety Issues:
    Now, this is a delicate subject. You take away a fan-favorite, your asking for trouble. Personally, my favorite Precision Rifle is the Carbine. In some ways its viewed as a knock-off to the BR, but I feel it has a niche, as it has better suppressive fire capability, by which I mean it is easier to keep people un-zoomed than the BR due to fire rate. this lets people play more aggressively, I find. The light Rifle Now has a cult following, and if we want it to remain, we are gonna need to edit it, to give it a more unique ability. To do this, I think we should make it a Hybrid. The Light Rifle’s un-zoomed feature should become the same kill time as a BR (Achieve this with a faster fire rate, so we keep the 5 shot kill un-zoomed, 4 shot kill zoomed, but it will be less accurate (slightly) and have less Aim Assist. But it is still the better weapon to have in CQC than the other L/M Precision Rifles. but not as diverse in longer range, but still better than the M/C Precision Rifles, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but not useless. As for my Thorn Rifle, that actually isn’t the first version of my idea for it. But if you think me toning my own idea down was to much, that’s actually surprising. So I would make it this now:
    4 shot kill
    Slowest fire rate
    No Lower Aim Assist
    Same Recoil as DMR
    Fastest Projectile
    Slight stun effect
    Does this sound better?
    I like how you saw my thought on the Molten Rifle. You hit the nail on the head. This thing is a completely new thing to Halo. And for the first time in a while we would have a TRULY new Precision Weapon concept. Glad you like it. I suppose your right that it could be OP for load-outs, so Here is a revised version:
    5sk Unscoped
    Significant recoil.
    Very low aim assist when scoped.
    Scoped fire has a DoT effect.
    Scoped fire potential 2sk (one to drain shields, one to finish).
    Now has 1.5 seconds between shots when scoped
    No-Longer automatic unscoped
    This less OP?

  4. Pistols:
    I agree with you on the boltshot. Revised (again)
    It can now kill a damaged foe even if they retain shields. Half shields or less.
    2 second charge time
    20 feet range.
    How about this?
    As for the Needle Pistol, the 10 shot kill isn’t about damage, it is super combine, like in reach with the Needle Rifle. It would have the Auto fire of Reaches Needle Rifle though (forgot to mention) and have a fire rate between that of the Magnum and Bolt shot. all the pistols would have a minimum kill time of 2.5 seconds for all head-shots.
    But of course, that leaves us with the dilemma of non head-shot kill times. I think a new angle is available here. Making the Needle pistol a 6 shot kill head-shot finisher, now a 9 shot kill non head-shots. now we can transverse this to till times. The magnum, as it has no real special features, but will be the most accurate of the 3, and now the other two do not get scopes, so now it has that advantage. but no margin for error to balance this, you miss one shot, you won’t get a kill from the magazine. The Needle Pistol and Boltshot have their own special features. the Needle Pistol gets a magazine of 10, giving it margin for error, and it can kill un-shielded foes in 3 shots, like the Needle Rifle can in Reach. The Boltshot has its Shotgun Effect. Now the pistols have balance and are varied, what do you think of these revises?

7

I think the most important thing is that the weapons are both unique and balanced for loadouts. For example, the battle rifle has fast moving projectile based shots and has bleed through while being dead on accurate. The carbine has slow moving bolts but fires faster and has the stun effect. Both weapons have the same kill time and are both perfectly accurate. Balanced but unique.

8

> I think the most important thing is that the weapons are both unique and balanced for loadouts. For example, the battle rifle has fast moving projectile based shots and has bleed through while being dead on accurate. The carbine has slow moving bolts but fires faster and has the stun effect. Both weapons have the same kill time and are both perfectly accurate. Balanced but unique.

I’m not disputing being unique, As my Thorn and Molten Rifle Idea’s should show. But this is about balancing the DMR and LR and a Third, Covenant/Storm/Brute orientated Long/Medium range to fit into load-outs, so that the fans of the Long/Medium range weapons can have them, but not as cross mapping super powers.

9

> > Straight to the point edition:
>
> Thank you for your detailed Input and summarized version of my system, big thanks for that :).
>
> I want to talk about your issues with it.
>
> 1. No un-zoomed Aim Assist:
> Alright, this is more obvious. Upon you bringing it up, I feel inclined to agree. I listed no aim assist un-zoomed as it was more revolutionary. but if Automatics are to stay powerful, then I agree, they should be given a weaker Aim Assist than the Universal Aim Assist of M/C Precision Rifles, same goes for zoomed pistols, In full agreement.
>
> 2. Extra Aim Assist on L/M Rifles:
> I see where you are coming from, but how would you tackle this? I think we need to have all Precision Rifles at 2x Scope to truly balance them, and their physics/mechanics should determine their range effectiveness. How about faster projectile velocity on long range weapons so they are more likely to hit their mark over longer range, and dropping bloom for spread/recoil?
>
> 3. Weapon Variety Issues:
> Now, this is a delicate subject. You take away a fan-favorite, your asking for trouble. Personally, my favorite Precision Rifle is the Carbine. In some ways its viewed as a knock-off to the BR, but I feel it has a niche, as it has better suppressive fire capability, by which I mean it is easier to keep people un-zoomed than the BR due to fire rate. this lets people play more aggressively, I find. The light Rifle Now has a cult following, and if we want it to remain, we are gonna need to edit it, to give it a more unique ability. To do this, I think we should make it a Hybrid. The Light Rifle’s un-zoomed feature should become the same kill time as a BR (Achieve this with a faster fire rate, so we keep the 5 shot kill un-zoomed, 4 shot kill zoomed, but it will be less accurate (slightly) and have less Aim Assist. But it is still the better weapon to have in CQC than the other L/M Precision Rifles. but not as diverse in longer range, but still better than the M/C Precision Rifles, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but not useless. As for my Thorn Rifle, that actually isn’t the first version of my idea for it. But if you think me toning my own idea down was to much, that’s actually surprising. So I would make it this now:
> 4 shot kill
> Slowest fire rate
> No Lower Aim Assist
> Same Recoil as DMR
> Fastest Projectile
> Slight stun effect
> Does this sound better?
> I like how you saw my thought on the Molten Rifle. You hit the nail on the head. <mark>This thing is a completely new thing to Halo. And for the first time in a while we would have a TRULY new Precision Weapon concept. Glad you like it. I suppose your right that it could be OP for load-outs, so Here is a revised version:</mark>
> <mark>5sk Unscoped</mark>
> <mark>Significant recoil.</mark>
> <mark>Very low aim assist when scoped.</mark>
> <mark>Scoped fire has a DoT effect.</mark>
> <mark>Scoped fire potential 2sk (one to drain shields, one to finish).</mark>
> <mark>Now has 1.5 seconds between shots when scoped</mark>
> <mark>No-Longer automatic unscoped</mark>
> <mark>This less OP?</mark>
>
> 4. Pistols:
> I agree with you on the boltshot. Revised (again)
> It can now kill a damaged foe even if they retain shields. Half shields or less.
> 2 second charge time
> 20 feet range.
> How about this?
> As for the Needle Pistol, the 10 shot kill isn’t about damage, it is super combine, like in reach with the Needle Rifle. It would have the Auto fire of Reaches Needle Rifle though (forgot to mention) and have a fire rate between that of the Magnum and Bolt shot. all the pistols would have a minimum kill time of 2.5 seconds for all head-shots.
> But of course, that leaves us with the dilemma of non head-shot kill times. I think a new angle is available here. Making the Needle pistol a 6 shot kill head-shot finisher, now a 9 shot kill non head-shots. now we can transverse this to till times. The magnum, as it has no real special features, but will be the most accurate of the 3, and now the other two do not get scopes, so now it has that advantage. but no margin for error to balance this, you miss one shot, you won’t get a kill from the magazine. The Needle Pistol and Boltshot have their own special features. the Needle Pistol gets a magazine of 10, giving it margin for error, and it can kill un-shielded foes in 3 shots, like the Needle Rifle can in Reach. The Boltshot has its Shotgun Effect. Now the pistols have balance and are varied, what do you think of these revises?

I liked your original idea of the Molten rifle actually. I think you actually under-powered it in your revision. Instead of a 1.5-second pause between scoped we should decrease it to around .075 or 0.085 seconds. Other than that I think this idea should be put to life and unleashed upon the world. :slight_smile:

10

> > > Straight to the point edition:
> >
> > Thank you for your detailed Input and summarized version of my system, big thanks for that :).
> >
> > I want to talk about your issues with it.
> >
> > 1. No un-zoomed Aim Assist:
> > Alright, this is more obvious. Upon you bringing it up, I feel inclined to agree. I listed no aim assist un-zoomed as it was more revolutionary. but if Automatics are to stay powerful, then I agree, they should be given a weaker Aim Assist than the Universal Aim Assist of M/C Precision Rifles, same goes for zoomed pistols, In full agreement.
> >
> > 2. Extra Aim Assist on L/M Rifles:
> > I see where you are coming from, but how would you tackle this? I think we need to have all Precision Rifles at 2x Scope to truly balance them, and their physics/mechanics should determine their range effectiveness. How about faster projectile velocity on long range weapons so they are more likely to hit their mark over longer range, and dropping bloom for spread/recoil?
> >
> > 3. Weapon Variety Issues:
> > Now, this is a delicate subject. You take away a fan-favorite, your asking for trouble. Personally, my favorite Precision Rifle is the Carbine. In some ways its viewed as a knock-off to the BR, but I feel it has a niche, as it has better suppressive fire capability, by which I mean it is easier to keep people un-zoomed than the BR due to fire rate. this lets people play more aggressively, I find. The light Rifle Now has a cult following, and if we want it to remain, we are gonna need to edit it, to give it a more unique ability. To do this, I think we should make it a Hybrid. The Light Rifle’s un-zoomed feature should become the same kill time as a BR (Achieve this with a faster fire rate, so we keep the 5 shot kill un-zoomed, 4 shot kill zoomed, but it will be less accurate (slightly) and have less Aim Assist. But it is still the better weapon to have in CQC than the other L/M Precision Rifles. but not as diverse in longer range, but still better than the M/C Precision Rifles, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but not useless. As for my Thorn Rifle, that actually isn’t the first version of my idea for it. But if you think me toning my own idea down was to much, that’s actually surprising. So I would make it this now:
> > 4 shot kill
> > Slowest fire rate
> > No Lower Aim Assist
> > Same Recoil as DMR
> > Fastest Projectile
> > Slight stun effect
> > Does this sound better?
> > I like how you saw my thought on the Molten Rifle. You hit the nail on the head. <mark>This thing is a completely new thing to Halo. And for the first time in a while we would have a TRULY new Precision Weapon concept. Glad you like it. I suppose your right that it could be OP for load-outs, so Here is a revised version:</mark>
> > <mark>5sk Unscoped</mark>
> > <mark>Significant recoil.</mark>
> > <mark>Very low aim assist when scoped.</mark>
> > <mark>Scoped fire has a DoT effect.</mark>
> > <mark>Scoped fire potential 2sk (one to drain shields, one to finish).</mark>
> > <mark>Now has 1.5 seconds between shots when scoped</mark>
> > <mark>No-Longer automatic unscoped</mark>
> > <mark>This less OP?</mark>
> >
> > 4. Pistols:
> > I agree with you on the boltshot. Revised (again)
> > It can now kill a damaged foe even if they retain shields. Half shields or less.
> > 2 second charge time
> > 20 feet range.
> > How about this?
> > As for the Needle Pistol, the 10 shot kill isn’t about damage, it is super combine, like in reach with the Needle Rifle. It would have the Auto fire of Reaches Needle Rifle though (forgot to mention) and have a fire rate between that of the Magnum and Bolt shot. all the pistols would have a minimum kill time of 2.5 seconds for all head-shots.
> > But of course, that leaves us with the dilemma of non head-shot kill times. I think a new angle is available here. Making the Needle pistol a 6 shot kill head-shot finisher, now a 9 shot kill non head-shots. now we can transverse this to till times. The magnum, as it has no real special features, but will be the most accurate of the 3, and now the other two do not get scopes, so now it has that advantage. but no margin for error to balance this, you miss one shot, you won’t get a kill from the magazine. The Needle Pistol and Boltshot have their own special features. the Needle Pistol gets a magazine of 10, giving it margin for error, and it can kill un-shielded foes in 3 shots, like the Needle Rifle can in Reach. The Boltshot has its Shotgun Effect. Now the pistols have balance and are varied, what do you think of these revises?
>
> I liked your original idea of the Molten rifle actually. I think you actually under-powered it in your revision. Instead of a 1.5-second pause between scoped we should decrease it to around .075 or 0.085 seconds. Other than that I think this idea should be put to life and unleashed upon the world. :slight_smile:

Thanks, what did you think of the revised Thorn Rifle?

something that bugs me about 343’s decision to make the Light rifle a BR/DMR reskin. they said it was to make it easier for new players. But that surely is backwards logic. Surely it would have been wiser to create something brand new that vets and newbies would have to get used to, so a start on level playing ground for this “new” weapon.

11

> I think we need to have all Precision Rifles at 2x Scope to truly balance them, and their physics/mechanics should determine their range effectiveness. How about faster projectile velocity on long range weapons so they are more likely to hit their mark over longer range, and dropping bloom for spread/recoil?

Longer range weapons could simply have faster projectiles and slower killtimes.

> Lightrifle

From my understanding, you want to make it an upgrade to the BR, but at the same time make it harder to use.

Although this train of thought works, there are better alternatives.

> Thorn Rifle

Trading killtime for stun would be enough.
Though I think the concept itself would be better suited to a power weapon.

> Molten Rifle

I’m not necessarily calling it OP. But as you said before, it’s an entirely new thing to Halo. And going in-out of cover with one of these might prove too easy of a tactic to spawn with.

I could see it working fine as a semi-power weapon. A skillful one if getting two shots with it requires good aim.

> Pistols:

Not really a huge fan of the options anyways.

12

> > I think we need to have all Precision Rifles at 2x Scope to truly balance them, and their physics/mechanics should determine their range effectiveness. How about faster projectile velocity on long range weapons so they are more likely to hit their mark over longer range, and dropping bloom for spread/recoil?
>
> Longer range weapons could simply have faster projectiles and slower killtimes.
>
>
>
> > Lightrifle
>
> From my understanding, you want to make it an upgrade to the BR, but at the same time make it harder to use.
>
> Although this train of thought works, there are better alternatives.
>
>
>
> > Thorn Rifle
>
> Trading killtime for stun would be enough.
> Though I think the concept itself would be better suited to a power weapon.
>
>
>
> > Molten Rifle
>
> I’m not necessarily calling it OP. But as you said before, it’s an entirely new thing to Halo. And going in-out of cover with one of these might prove too easy of a tactic to spawn with.
>
> I could see it working fine as a semi-power weapon. A skillful one if getting two shots with it requires good aim.
>
>
>
> > Pistols:
>
> Not really a huge fan of the options anyways.

I appreciate the input. However what I am trying to here is create a system all weapons can have load-out viability while retaining unique characteristic. Everyone adding to them is great. But here is the thing. All precision rifle do need 2x scopes, not just faster projectile, slower kill times, because even if you do that, they can still cross map if they have 3x scopes, and hence you have Ragnarok Syndrome. 2x scopes across all Load-out Precision Rifles stops this, while still having the DMR, LR and TR better suited for long range than the BR, CC and MR.

13

> > I think the most important thing is that the weapons are both unique and balanced for loadouts. For example, the battle rifle has fast moving projectile based shots and has bleed through while being dead on accurate. The carbine has slow moving bolts but fires faster and has the stun effect. Both weapons have the same kill time and are both perfectly accurate. Balanced but unique.
>
> I’m not disputing being unique, As my Thorn and Molten Rifle Idea’s should show. But this is about balancing the DMR and LR and a Third, Covenant/Storm/Brute orientated Long/Medium range to fit into load-outs, so that the fans of the Long/Medium range weapons can have them, but not as cross mapping super powers.

Oh I know I’m just giving my two cents on the matter.

14

> > > I think the most important thing is that the weapons are both unique and balanced for loadouts. For example, the battle rifle has fast moving projectile based shots and has bleed through while being dead on accurate. The carbine has slow moving bolts but fires faster and has the stun effect. Both weapons have the same kill time and are both perfectly accurate. Balanced but unique.
> >
> > I’m not disputing being unique, As my Thorn and Molten Rifle Idea’s should show. But this is about balancing the DMR and LR and a Third, Covenant/Storm/Brute orientated Long/Medium range to fit into load-outs, so that the fans of the Long/Medium range weapons can have them, but not as cross mapping super powers.
>
> Oh I know I’m just giving my two cents on the matter.

What do you think of the Molten Rifle, An interesting new thing?

15

> In Halo 5, The Aim Assist for Long Range weapons is better than that of Medium/Close (Hence Forth will be M/C), but only when Zoomed in, and they receive NO Aim Assist out side of zoom, meaning the really are restricted to long rage game-play, and are not useless at close range, but much harder to use. They also have Bloom, or something else that lowers their over all accuracy (optional).

Adding this to the DMR, LR and Needle Rifle may fix the issue. And sounds like a good idea.

I guess it be like trying to no-scope with the binary rifle, it is pretty much useless. But super powerful when zoomed.

This may work. But will still have the con of being able to spawn with a weapon that has the ability to shoot anyone from anywhere on a map. And would still reduce map movement.

However I still think the LR should not exist in your loadout or any other Promethean Weapon. These should all be mini power weapons.

16

> > Straight to the point edition:
>
> Thank you for your detailed Input and summarized version of my system, big thanks for that :).
>
> I want to talk about your issues with it.
>
> 1. No un-zoomed Aim Assist:
> Alright, this is more obvious. Upon you bringing it up, I feel inclined to agree. I listed no aim assist un-zoomed as it was more revolutionary. but if Automatics are to stay powerful, then I agree, they should be given a weaker Aim Assist than the Universal Aim Assist of M/C Precision Rifles, same goes for zoomed pistols, In full agreement.
>
> 2. Extra Aim Assist on L/M Rifles:
> I see where you are coming from, but how would you tackle this? I think we need to have all Precision Rifles at 2x Scope to truly balance them, and their physics/mechanics should determine their range effectiveness. How about faster projectile velocity on long range weapons so they are more likely to hit their mark over longer range, and dropping bloom for spread/recoil?
>
> 3. Weapon Variety Issues:
> Now, this is a delicate subject. You take away a fan-favorite, your asking for trouble. Personally, my favorite Precision Rifle is the Carbine. In some ways its viewed as a knock-off to the BR, but I feel it has a niche, as it has better suppressive fire capability, by which I mean it is easier to keep people un-zoomed than the BR due to fire rate. this lets people play more aggressively, I find. The light Rifle Now has a cult following, and if we want it to remain, we are gonna need to edit it, to give it a more unique ability. To do this, I think we should make it a Hybrid. The Light Rifle’s un-zoomed feature should become the same kill time as a BR (Achieve this with a faster fire rate, so we keep the 5 shot kill un-zoomed, 4 shot kill zoomed, but it will be less accurate (slightly) and have less Aim Assist. But it is still the better weapon to have in CQC than the other L/M Precision Rifles. but not as diverse in longer range, but still better than the M/C Precision Rifles, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but not useless. As for my Thorn Rifle, that actually isn’t the first version of my idea for it. But if you think me toning my own idea down was to much, that’s actually surprising. So I would make it this now:
> 4 shot kill
> Slowest fire rate
> No Lower Aim Assist
> Same Recoil as DMR
> Fastest Projectile
> Slight stun effect
> Does this sound better?
> I like how you saw my thought on the Molten Rifle. You hit the nail on the head. This thing is a completely new thing to Halo. And for the first time in a while we would have a TRULY new Precision Weapon concept. Glad you like it. I suppose your right that it could be OP for load-outs, so Here is a revised version:
> 5sk Unscoped
> Significant recoil.
> Very low aim assist when scoped.
> Scoped fire has a DoT effect.
> Scoped fire potential 2sk (one to drain shields, one to finish).
> Now has 1.5 seconds between shots when scoped
> No-Longer automatic unscoped
> This less OP?
>
> 4. Pistols:
> I agree with you on the boltshot. Revised (again)
> It can now kill a damaged foe even if they retain shields. Half shields or less.
> 2 second charge time
> 20 feet range.
> How about this?
> As for the Needle Pistol, the 10 shot kill isn’t about damage, it is super combine, like in reach with the Needle Rifle. It would have the Auto fire of Reaches Needle Rifle though (forgot to mention) and have a fire rate between that of the Magnum and Bolt shot. all the pistols would have a minimum kill time of 2.5 seconds for all head-shots.
> But of course, that leaves us with the dilemma of non head-shot kill times. I think a new angle is available here. Making the Needle pistol a 6 shot kill head-shot finisher, now a 9 shot kill non head-shots. now we can transverse this to till times. The magnum, as it has no real special features, but will be the most accurate of the 3, and now the other two do not get scopes, so now it has that advantage. but no margin for error to balance this, you miss one shot, you won’t get a kill from the magazine. The Needle Pistol and Boltshot have their own special features. the Needle Pistol gets a magazine of 10, giving it margin for error, and it can kill un-shielded foes in 3 shots, like the Needle Rifle can in Reach. The Boltshot has its Shotgun Effect. Now the pistols have balance and are varied, what do you think of these revises?

[/quote]
Adding this to the DMR, LR and Needle Rifle may fix the issue. And sounds like a good idea.

I guess it be like trying to no-scope with the binary rifle, it is pretty much useless. But super powerful when zoomed.

This may work. But will still have the con of being able to spawn with a weapon that has the ability to shoot anyone from anywhere on a map. And would still reduce map movement.

However I still think the LR should not exist in your loadout or any other Promethean Weapon. These should all be mini power weapons.

[/quote]
i edited the effect of how they would be affected. also, they cannot still cross map, cause they no longer have 2x zooms. they have the same RRR, but support further range better than BR, CC and MR.

17

> So many people keep saying the DMR and LR cannot be made to fit into Load-outs, and should hence forth be beefed up slightly, and made low tier power weapons. I disagree. I think the potential to make them fit load-outs is there, you just have to think outside the box.

Let me just say, when referring to the DMR and LR , I don’t think its IMPOSSIBLE to fit them into Personal Loadouts. However, they would need to be better balanced with the other primaries to require more skill to use/be less effective at less-than-long ranges to prevent them from being comparatively overpowered. In my opinion, this integration dulls the edge of such weapons and gives players a weapon with a niche that doesn’t fit well at-spawn (long-range weapon capabilities often lead to a lack of map movement) and wouldn’t fulfill that niche as well as it could.

On the other hand, if the DMR and LR were to be placed on-map, they could still have a noticeable advantage. There wouldn’t be as strict a mandate to jump through hoops to make these weapons balanced to the primaries, only to make them effective and balanced into the sandbox as a whole.

In short, I don’t believe its necessarily a matter of “Is it possible to integrate them into loadouts?” so much as it is a matter of “Is it best to integrate them into loadouts?” I’ll ask you this question: Why do you believe these weapons would be genuinely better suited as loadout primaries as opposed to map pick-ups?

18

> > So many people keep saying the DMR and LR cannot be made to fit into Load-outs, and should hence forth be beefed up slightly, and made low tier power weapons. I disagree. I think the potential to make them fit load-outs is there, you just have to think outside the box.
>
> Let me just say, when referring to the DMR and LR , I don’t think its IMPOSSIBLE to fit them into Personal Loadouts. However, they would need to be better balanced with the other primaries to require more skill to use/be less effective at less-than-long ranges to prevent them from being comparatively overpowered. In my opinion, this integration dulls the edge of such weapons and gives players a weapon with a niche that doesn’t fit well at-spawn (long-range weapon capabilities often lead to a lack of map movement) and wouldn’t fulfill that niche as well as it could.
>
> On the other hand, if the DMR and LR were to be placed on-map, they could still have a noticeable advantage. There wouldn’t be as strict a mandate to jump through hoops to make these weapons balanced to the primaries, only to make them effective and balanced into the sandbox as a whole.
>
> In short, I don’t believe its necessarily a matter of “Is it possible to integrate them into loadouts?” so much as it is a matter of “Is it best to integrate them into loadouts?” I’ll ask you this question: Why do you believe these weapons would be genuinely better suited as loadout primaries as opposed to map pick-ups?

Variation, Play-style and Equality.

Variation:
Everyone who wants these out is simply does’t seem to remember that once you do have them gone, your left with three (two not including my hypothetical Molten Rifle) precision weapons all doing the same job, M/C Range Combat. Having weapons that specialize at Long Range but are evenly matched at Middle Range and defeated at Close Range while vice versa for the M/C weapons adds more depth to your choice, and you have to pick carefully depending on the map. For example, the map may be large, with some open spaces, but the amount of time you are moving in and about the enclosed spaces would prompt you to take a M/C Range Rifle, but you have the choice to test your luck with the L/M Range weapon.

Play-Style:
With the new cult following behind the DMR and LR, and how they affect play-style, it’s natural some players will complain about not having their DMR and LR from spawn. giving them a 2x Scope, Faster Projectile speed and less Un-Zoomed Aim Assist means they can have their Longer range play-style, but at a level where it doesn’t aid cross mapping like it used too, as it it has the same zoom, it just makes hitting them easier, that’s not to say you can’t still do It with a BR, MR or CC, but it’s easier to do so with the DMR, LR or TR. similarly, you can still use a L/M Ranged Weapon Successfully, but the BR, MR and CC are better at it, Its like the Sniper Rifle, good players can pull of no-scopes easily, and hence they find a way to use these weapons at close range.

Equality:
A player who is terrible at Close or Medium Range encounters should not be forced to start with something they are not good with. This is as bad as a player starting with OP weapons in a way. Letting players who are better at Longer Range Combat have their weapons but at a nerfed level is a balanced way to allow them this. People say it would affect map flow. I would disagree here as the weapons are now 2x Scoped, same as the BR, MR and CC. these weapons now have a much better chance at fighting back over longer range, and will force the L/M Range Weapons to stay on the move, because the M/C range weapons are going to outgun you much faster than before. and can get closer easier.

19

> > Why do you believe these weapons would be genuinely better suited as loadout primaries as opposed to map pick-ups?
>
> Variation, Play-style and Equality.
>
> Variation:
> Everyone who wants these out is simply does’t seem to remember that once you do have them gone, your left with three (two not including my hypothetical Molten Rifle) precision weapons all doing the same job, M/C Range Combat. Having weapons that specialize at Long Range but are evenly matched at Middle Range and defeated at Close Range while vice versa for the M/C weapons adds more depth to your choice, and you have to pick carefully depending on the map. For example, the map may be large, with some open spaces, but the amount of time you are moving in and about the enclosed spaces would prompt you to take a M/C Range Rifle, but you have the choice to test your luck with the L/M Range weapon.
>
> Play-Style:
> With the new cult following behind the DMR and LR, and how they affect play-style, it’s natural some players will complain about not having their DMR and LR from spawn. giving them a 2x Scope, Faster Projectile speed and less Un-Zoomed Aim Assist means they can have their Longer range play-style, but at a level where it doesn’t aid cross mapping like it used too, as it it has the same zoom, it just makes hitting them easier, that’s not to say you can’t still do It with a BR, MR or CC, but it’s easier to do so with the DMR, LR or TR. similarly, you can still use a L/M Ranged Weapon Successfully, but the BR, MR and CC are better at it, Its like the Sniper Rifle, good players can pull of no-scopes easily, and hence they find a way to use these weapons at close range.
>
> Equality:
> A player who is terrible at Close or Medium Range encounters should not be forced to start with something they are not good with. This is as bad as a player starting with OP weapons in a way. Letting players who are better at Longer Range Combat have their weapons but at a nerfed level is a balanced way to allow them this. People say it would affect map flow. I would disagree here as the weapons are now 2x Scoped, same as the BR, MR and CC. these weapons now have a much better chance at fighting back over longer range, and will force the L/M Range Weapons to stay on the move, because the M/C range weapons are going to outgun you much faster than before. and can get closer easier.

Variation: The BR and CC may fulfill the same combat role, but they do so differently. If you really want to start getting down to “variation” over a more diverse weapon sandbox, then why do you think the DMR AND LR should come back? They fulfill the same combat role, all the while having different aspects to them (same as the BR/CC relationship).

Play-style: Not all play-styles should be encouraged/allowed at-spawn. PP/‘Stickies’ is a play-style, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t harm vehicular (as well as infantry) gameplay. Having a close-ranged weapon like the Boltshot or Mauler to deal with enemies “up close and personal” is another play-style, but not one that should be allowed to anyone/everyone at-spawn. Likewise, long-ranged precision rifles offer a specific play-style, but in excess they discourage map movement and make closer-ranged weapons, like the AR, nearly useless. Also, the “cult following” for these weapons isn’t the best point to make since the debate is on their integration, not their outright removal/inclusion (especially when you want to change core features of both e.g. zoom strength).

Equality: There is really no way to make a short-mid ranged automatic (AR) and a mid-long ranged precision rifle (DMR) equal, because the AR can only effectively land shots up until a certain distance. After that, the DMR-user has nothing to fear from an AR-user. On the other hand, a DMR-user can consistently land shots at almost any range (especially closer ranges).The DMR has a chance in CQC, especially when you get into melee range. The AR-user still is in danger when confronted by a DMR-user, so that relationship can’t really be considered equal. The AR may be better at close range than the DMR, but it can’t really compete at all in long-ranged engagements.

20

I think either we need to all spawn with automatics and a good magnum with the utilities on the map OR we introduce some AR that can compete at a longer range. I think the scoped SMG from ODST should deff make a comeback.