Population Numbers & Claiming "Most Players"

*Long read ahead. Reasonable discussion welcomed.

Claiming that the Halo 4 population is dropping at a faster rate than previous Halo titles solely due to a gradual dropping in game quality is a blanket assumption. You must evaluate the audience surveyed first. Some unique users collected in these weekly-collected population data are probably playing less because of other responsibilities that hold greater value for time in their lives than playing video games. Ten years ago, my friends and I would play Halo for hours on end into the early hours of the morning. That was because we were in high school, when life was easy. Now, we have grown up to have full-time careers, families to care for, and other greater responsibilities. We have to mutually schedule times in the week if we want to play Halo 4 together. Sometimes, we do not even play during the week because of other things in life.

I acknowledge that there are some gameplay issues with Halo 4 that would make it not enjoyable for somebody to play as much as they did with Halo 2, for example. I respect a person’s decision for holding off on playing Halo 4 until they see likable changes. I am also aware that some players continue to play Halo 4 because they simply just enjoy the game as it is. Unless you are able to poll every unique player, you cannot make assumptions that speak for “most” players.

Sorry to go Statistics 101 on you, reader. Saying that you made a poll/discussion on Halo Waypoint that speaks for “most” players is a subjective claim. Your poll results & discussion only represents players who participated in it. This means one response is only representative of one player who: Is aware of Halo Waypoint forums; chose to go to the forums that day; chose to click on your thread; chose to answer/post in your discussion. Just because nobody actually chose to post something in disagreement within the discussion does not mean most everyone agrees with you. Some people just read the threads, have an opinion that agrees/disagrees or is indifferent, but choose not to reply. I do not know the numbers, but I do not think that all Halo 4 players choose to go to the Halo Waypoint forums. Let’s take for example, if there were 70 threads with a unanimously agreeing population of 1000 Halo Waypoint users in polls that say the storm rifle is “weak” instead of “underpowered”. Does that mean 343 should fix the storm rife accordingly because there is a popular opinion from one sample group? Just because something is popular on the forums right now does not mean there is a shared widespread opinion (Seriously, can’t all the boltshot threads merge into just one? They’re all practically the same). I do not think that it is fairly indicative of the opinions of ALL the other Halo 4 players that did not participate.

Seems to me that most posts on Halo Waypoint are more about criticisms than praises. Understandably so, because it’s easier to talk about things you do not like than things you do. They stand out more. Quick experiment - what can you name faster: 5 restaurants you would recommend and reasons why, or 5 restaurants you would not and reasons why? Chances are, you can list the undesirable ones easier because negative things stand out more than positive. Take a look at Yelp to see who gives more detail in their reviews. To segue back to Halo 4, do you think all players that really enjoy Halo 4 would come and take the time to post praises on the developer’s forums? Maybe not because they are spending their time just playing the game instead of putting in the time to find the video game’s forums on one website?

I personally do not care that much for population numbers. It seems very much “alive” to me. If you think about it, every single video game is dying since launch day. The numbers will always decrease over time. Comparing separate video game populations is subjective, too. You might as well say New York is dying because California, which entered the Union later, has a bigger population. As long as I can find 7 other players to fill a game of Infinity Slayer quickly, I’m content. There could be a playlist population of 400 or 400,000, it does not matter to me. I am playing with 7 other players, not 700,000.

TL/DR? Understandable. That’s OK with me. I’m looking to see if there can be a respectable discussion about this. I do not mean to sound patronizing in any way, so apologies if you felt that way. I might or might not check back on this thread to see what some people chose to say, because I do not have lots of time to spend with video game-related things. Discuss among yourselves.

My point is, people should not assume that ALL “real fans” are leaving because they are not dedicating X number of hours to a game. The population is not “dying” all because the players are unsatisfied. Not all of us are absent because of the gameplay. Some of us just cannot give the same amount of video game playtime like we did ten years ago, but we are still fans who love and enjoy Halo. Where do you think you will be in ten years? Do you honestly expect to be giving the same amount of time to video games ten years from now as you do today?

I was ranked number two in the UK on Halo reach based on true skill for BTB and topped the table for most vehicle kills and weapon kills, I was ranked 75 in the world based on true skill for BTB now 85. I have also been with Xbox since launch and have been part of the Halo community for all multiplayer-games from Halo 2 to Halo 4.
I can honestly say that although Halo4 has amazing graphics, an excellent campaign and a good spartan ops from episode 6 onwards (1 to 5 were terrible) the Halo 4 multiplayer is TERRIBLE, vehicles are SLOW what is wrong with the ghost and Banshee it is like going from a Mercedes to refuge truck, BTB is now slayer only which requires NO skill or TEAM work but just requires you to camp the map and pick off kills as the most populated game type in the past this is what is killing the community of my 100 friends some of the top players in world only 6 like Halo 4 and only 4 of those more than other titles the majority of regular players are either 130 sr and have moved on or hated the game so much that they have gone from the community forever.
Give us BTB objective soon 343 as the only thing keeping me with your game is Spartan Ops as I want to see where the narrative finishes and then after that you may well loose me too, and the Bungie faithful will be long gone once Destiny launches

I the state of the overall gameing market. COD is viewed as the best and do all and did all now when really its the frankenstine of the gameing market good parts from other games all patched into one that only keeps people coming back to it because there friends are getting it and the smalll high they get from feeling there better or good becuase anyone can get it on COD. I mean BO2 is even being put up for an award for most innovative game. freaking world is ending thats the only reason that makes since. I also blame MS for RUSHING THEM!!! we could of possibly had pros giving them their opinions and fixing it more Bravo would of been fixing it and had more of an influence on what needed to be added and getting it in. The Multiplayer guy from Epic would be in there too if they had delayed it to february/march. 3 years sounds like a long time but really its not for a triple A game. Its a good amount but when it ssometihng like Halo and your bascially taking it from its creators your going to have huge like freaking universe sized shows to fill and theres no way that they could of done that on the first game. It could of had everything we wanted and more but there would still be just as much rageining. not trying to innovate or add something new to the flavor without breaking it ( not that they did any of that with Halo 4).

OP is a waste of time to read.

lulz, kids typing a 5 page thesis on something as simple as a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich.

If this game were entertaining, more people would be playing it.

I voted yes to the thread poll. Probably a few thousand come here, and those that actually care about the game, playing it significantly (ie: beyond peak hours) likely don’t number that much higher.

It’s a good sample size.

> OP is a waste of time to read.
>
> lulz, kids typing a 5 page thesis on something as simple as a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich.
>
> If this game were entertaining, more people would be playing it.
>
> I voted yes to the thread poll. Probably a few thousand come here, and those that actually care about the game, playing it significantly (ie: beyond peak hours) likely don’t number that much higher.
>
> It’s a good sample size.

But if Halo 3 is more entertaining then why isnt there more people playing that ? also Numbers cant always show the true quality of stuff. That new tron show is really good and thats getting low numbers,freaking young Justice is getting canceled. Numbers dont always show the quality of a game or show or movie. We live in a world where whats good could be 5 seconds of someone filming poop on the sidewalk and that person could get famous or popular just from that.
The MP isnt terrible it has problems but isnt terrible. 343 does need to try and get the info on changes out in the xbox dashboard. People are still mostly holding off on the game becuase there gamemodes arent there. Ive seen multiple people jus ton the forums complaining about king of the hill not being on like a day after the freaking thing made a return to the playlist they need to get the word out so that the uninformed can be informed so that they can come back. Any way im going to go play some team doubles. If this game dies then ill just ahave to adaptto your thinking and start calling justin beiber one of the greatest artists ever since he has SO many people listening to his music he must be great JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!!! THE NUMBERS!!!

> > OP is a waste of time to read.
> >
> > lulz, kids typing a 5 page thesis on something as simple as a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich.
> >
> > If this game were entertaining, more people would be playing it.
> >
> > I voted yes to the thread poll. Probably a few thousand come here, and those that actually care about the game, playing it significantly (ie: beyond peak hours) likely don’t number that much higher.
> >
> > It’s a good sample size.
>
> But if Halo 3 is more entertaining then why isnt there more people playing that ? also Numbers cant always show the true quality of stuff. That new tron show is really good and thats getting low numbers,freaking young Justice is getting canceled. Numbers dont always show the quality of a game or show or movie. We live in a world where whats good could be 5 seconds of someone filming poop on the sidewalk and that person could get famous or popular just from that.
> The MP isnt terrible it has problems but isnt terrible. 343 does need to try and get the info on changes out in the xbox dashboard. People are still mostly holding off on the game becuase there gamemodes arent there. Ive seen multiple people jus ton the forums complaining about king of the hill not being on like a day after the freaking thing made a return to the playlist they need to get the word out so that the uninformed can be informed so that they can come back. Any way im going to go play some team doubles. If this game dies then ill just ahave to adaptto your thinking and start calling justin beiber one of the greatest artists ever since he has SO many people listening to his music he must be great JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!!! THE NUMBERS!!!

At ease bro. People line up around the block for Bieber concerts and Twilight openings and we know how that goes. CoD is the same way. It’s ‘popular’ with the kids.

People aren’t saying that Halo has to be on top. It’s too unique to be on top. The top is usually held by the generic garbage.

But the population drop (which is falling faster then many previous titles) is extremely telling.

If this game were entertaining, and not full of random BS that has people screaming into their mics WTF? 20+ times a game, you’d obviously see more people playing. JiP wouldn’t have to be working as hard.

Enough posts about the population. Crying and asking questions wont bring people back.

And the forums represent id say 1/3 of halos population. And possibly the worst of the population. Everybody else thats on halo 4 is a dedicated fan. I myself am a dedicated fan and rarely complain on the forums and go on them around 3 times a week.

> And the forums represent id say 1/3 of halos population. And possibly the worst of the population. Everybody else thats on halo 4 is a dedicated fan. I myself am a dedicated fan and rarely complain on the forums and go on them around 3 times a week.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.
The 343 team really should take what they read on here with a pinch of salt. Most of it is complaining for the sake of complaining. Haters gonna hate.
I love the game.

> Enough posts about the population. Crying and asking questions wont bring people back.
>
>
> And the forums represent id say 1/3 of halos population. And possibly the worst of the population. Everybody else thats on halo 4 is a dedicated fan. I myself am a dedicated fan and rarely complain on the forums and go on them around 3 times a week.

If anything, that just shows that the forums aren’t that bad of a gauge as to how the overall population feels. People on the forums are both happy and upset, you see people defending Halo 4 and others criticizing it.

I certainly don’t think the forums give you the most accurate representation, but you can’t ignore them either.

> Enough posts about the population. Crying and asking questions wont bring people back.
>
>
> And the forums represent id say 1/3 of halos population. And possibly the worst of the population. Everybody else thats on halo 4 is a dedicated fan. I myself am a dedicated fan and rarely complain on the forums and go on them around 3 times a week.

The forums represent the people that care.

That’s the opposite of the ‘worst’.

> > Enough posts about the population. Crying and asking questions wont bring people back.
> >
> >
> > And the forums represent id say 1/3 of halos population. And possibly the worst of the population. Everybody else thats on halo 4 is a dedicated fan. I myself am a dedicated fan and rarely complain on the forums and go on them around 3 times a week.
>
> If anything, that just shows that the forums aren’t that bad of a gauge as to how the overall population feels. People on the forums are both happy and upset, you see people defending Halo 4 and others criticizing it.
>
> I certainly don’t think the forums give you the most accurate representation, but you can’t ignore them either.

You can ignore about 99% of it. It seems that the louder the complainer is, the more they should be ignored.

This has been the case for just about every official forum for a computer game I’ve been on.

Ever been on the official World of Warcraft forums? It’s an utter cesspool of harpies screaming and shouting over the most absurd details.

It mirrors this place to a degree:

  • The latest iteration or change is BAD REALLY BAD AND NOT WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT.
  • The game was at it’s best at some arbitrary point in the past, most likely to be around about the time that that particular person first started playing.
  • The developers don’t care about the player base.
  • Casuals ruined everything.

> > Enough posts about the population. Crying and asking questions wont bring people back.
> >
> > And the forums represent id say 1/3 of halos population. And possibly the worst of the population. Everybody else thats on halo 4 is a dedicated fan. I myself am a dedicated fan and rarely complain on the forums and go on them around 3 times a week.
>
> The forums represent the people that care.
>
> That’s the opposite of the ‘worst’.

I’d say the forums represent the people who, if they were sports fans, would be getting into fights with the fans on the opposite team all the time.

Apart from me, of course.

The worst of the community are Team Killers, Modders, and AFKers.

Forum goers to everyone else who play Halo throughout the years are simply Halo fans.

I had to vote no on your question for this reason alone. When people come to the Forums I believe it is for one of 3 reasons.

  1. They have a legitimate complaint so they come to the only place to really tell 343 what is not right with the game.

  2. They are looking for any news or info about their favorite game.

  3. They just want to troll and be a general pain in the butt to everyone.

So the Forums are probably pretty biased towards the negative side. I believe most polls are likely to be an inaccurate account of the whole population.

I get thats what the whole point of forums are but honestly 343 should just accept the fact that there are people with pea brains on here that need to constantly complain about things that have obviously been complained about (ex. Boltshot and DMR being OP) and make a COMPLAINTS section of the forums.

And if some people really “cared” they wouldnt be a one time poster that just posts some long rant about how this game stole their money and never go back on the forums.

The amount of complaint threads on this forum are to Damn high!

Woah wait somebody loves halo 4? I thought I was the only one paddling on this boat.

The thing about Halo is that many of it’s fans today, have been long time fans. This means that these long time fans have grown up (as the op mentions) and have more important things to do, but they are still fans that come back to Halo when they can. Just because they are fans doesn’t mean they see every Halo game as perfect, however, but they are still fans that can see the rights and wrongs of each new Halo. But heck, many are fine with how it is (they just can’t find the time to play) and of course many outright hate it.

The other day my sisters friend asks me if I have blops2 and if he can barrow it from me, he is either 10 or 11 years old. I wanted to freakin laugh but I held it in. Kids don’t have a clue what Halo even is( fortunately), and thus, all they really hear about is cod. Cod is so mainstream and attracts the masses, those who play Halo have been playing before cod was so popular. So to compare cods population to halos, is actually really flawed. You are comparing longtime fans that do not have as much time to play video games, that have grown up and have jobs (and thus they look forward to playing other games besides halo since they can afford to do so) to kids playing cod, that likely do not know what Halo is, and have ALL the time of the day (besides school) to play.

Now of course Halo itself isn’t made solely of long time fans, there are also new comers, but cod has way more since it is so mainstream, and people will play it or start to play it if they haven’t before, only because likes are they know someone that does play it.

Forums tend to attract a certain type of complainer, but they also attract dedicated fans who want the game to succeed. The dedicated fans are telling 343 that we need a FFA game type, objectives in BTB, limits on the DMR and Bolt Shot, upgrades to vehicles, and better maps. Dear 343, listen to the fans.

> Cod is so mainstream and attracts the masses, those who play Halo have been playing before cod was so popular.

Call of Duty has been around since 2003, almost as long as Halo. Also, Call of Duty games are available on all consoles and the PC. Halo is an Xbox exclusive, and even though Halo 4 has sold an impressive 7.73 million copies, an Xbox exclusive franchise will never have as much mindshare as a franchise available on all systems.

> I get thats what the whole point of forums are but honestly 343 should just accept the fact that there are people with pea brains on here that need to constantly complain about things that have obviously been complained about (ex. Boltshot and DMR being OP) and make a COMPLAINTS section of the forums.
>
> And if some people really “cared” they wouldnt be a one time poster that just posts some long rant about how this game stole their money and never go back on the forums.
>
>
> The amount of complaint threads on this forum are to Damn high!

KETTLE,POT,BLACK

Its funny to read the post from a complainer posting about the complainers.

Really?