POLL: Should the Weapon Sandbox be Pure?

[Shanesaw9]

Going back to our discussion on the SAW, do we really need a Needle based LMG if Dual Wielding is properly implemented?

[Canadianatlas]

As far as the weapon sandbox is concerned, balance is more important than having a slim selection. Get the balance right with what we have now, and then introduce more weapons. Hopefully campaign and whatever other possible PvE modes aren’t ignored.

[Windjammer19]

In general? No.

But it depends on your definition of an LMG. The Needler is an aggressively short ranged gun, while LMGs tend to be longer ranged. We know from Halo Reach that needles don’t have to have a tracking function, and we know from Halo 5 that needles can be modified to pierce armor and explode.

It could make an interesting anti-vehicle gun.

tl;dr the Needle Hog was cool and I miss it.

[ChaosFlame10000]

Halo 5s approach worked well.

[BanjoSaguaro]

Overlapping niches isn’t inherently a problem, as long as each weapon still maintains a unique identity. The Commando and BR as they exist in relation to each other in Infinite feel pretty nice- each is serviceable as a marksman rifle, but there are situations where a player would definitely prefer one over the other of them and vice versa.

In theory, more precision weapons (just to use one gameplay niche as an example) can fit, but the more there are, the more difficult it is for them to feel useful and distinct from each other. I have a love/hate relationship with the Stalker Rifle because it feels like it exists in the perfect zone for what I’d want from a DMR in this game (really crispy and tight control for mid-long range with pinpoint precision). So, I love the Stalker but it makes introducing my all-time favorite Halo weapon (DMR) impractical due to too much niche overlap. Here’s hoping that 343i comes up with a unique precision spin to bring the DMR back eventually…

I personally hated how convoluted H5’s Warzone sandbox got. Just a gigantic mess IMO, and I’d hate for Infinite to ever resemble it. I don’t think it’s a problem to have a handful of weapons fulfilling similar functions gameplay-wise, but once you’re having to check which variant of which weapon you’re using, it’s too far.

Someone who’s spent time playing the game should be able to gain a well founded sense of confidence and familiarity with every weapon in the sandbox. It’s really easy to overdo it when adding new weapons, so I think 343i should take it very slow and easy adding more.

And the precision rifle niche is truthfully about the last category that needs any help in this game so far

[Shanesaw9]

I know exactly what you’re saying.

I wonder if the DMR couldn’t just be added as a variant for the Commando. So the Stalker Rifle still has its place in the Sandbox as the main marksman rifle but then the DMR can still be included in Campaign and I’m assuming in the future social playlists and custom games.

[BanjoSaguaro]

I’d sure love the DMR back, but honestly if it’s a gloridied reskin I’d rather just keep the Commando. It’s not ever going to replace the Reach DMR in my heart, but it’s pretty fun to use all the same.

[Wintermute_2050]

You are not playing the Sandbox; you are playing Production code.

A sandbox is a community environment for developers, not players - the end users.

[commando544]

@total_war1402

There’s only so many roles that exist. Duplication is inevitable at that point.

Not true, it is an extent of the time you put into thinking on how to make things stand out.

@total_war1402

Is making the Heatwave a weird weapon with a gimmicky bounce effect and one weapon mode that doesn’t work better than just making it a shotgun like the Scattershot? There’s no real purpose for the Heatwave to exist they simply didn’t want two shotguns in the game.

The Heatwave is unique however, while it ends up getting used as a shotgun that is only due to the bulldog being crap and the heatwave performing in it’s role better.

@total_war1402

Plus in campaign, does it really make sense the Sentinels to be using Banished Weapons?

You know the sentinel beam exists right?

@total_war1402

You’re not selling on this big sci fi world if you only have eight guns to keep the multiplayer sandbox free of “clutter”.

Nobody said only have 8 guns, you can have as many as you want as long as they are all unique and add something new to the game that another gun cannot.

@total_war1402

You would also have to get rid of quite a few legacy weapons to avoid duplication. BR-DMR-Covenant Carbine. Spartan Laser-Railgun-Skewer. Shotgun-Bulldog. Etc etc Which means you have less content.

It’s only less content from a COD/Battlefield perspective, and these weapons can still return if done in a way that makes them functionally unique.

@total_war1402

Being purist to the point of only having a single precision gun is extremely limiting and it does not make the game better.

Nobody said only having 1 precision weapon is the answer, They need to be unique from each other and offer a distinct experience that is not replicated by the others.

[total_war1402]

The Sentinels also use the shock rifle in campaign. Same as how elites randomly have access to heatwaves and brutes are using sentinel beams.

Plus you have the Skimmers, the supposed vanguard of “more dangerous than the Flood” who whilst having all their unique armour don’t have any Xalanyn weapons of their own. Instead using Banished and UNSC hand me downs. That kind of diminishes the faction if they don’t even have their own guns.

[RINZL3R_IADI]

Option 3…

[20 characters]

[Fos_Kuvol]

I really prefer having weapons fill unique roles. More isn’t actually more if it’s more of the same. And alien weapons are always more interesting when they aren’t just clones of human ones.

That said, weapons that fill a similar role in an entirely different way are a great way to get around this. The most classic examples are the Shotgun and Flamethrower in CE. They have the same range, and a similar power potential, but are wholly unique to one another from a gameplay perspective.

[Shanesaw9]

Bumping this thread to discuss the results as it has been a week with almost 100 total votes.

MAJORITY VOTE (45%)
Option 3: No, bring as many weapons into the sandbox as possible.

RUNNER UP (41%)
Option 2: No, some overlap is OK as long as the weapon is a little different.

MINORITY VOTE (14%)
Option 1: Yes, every gun should have a unique role in the Sandbox.

I will leave the poll open, but moving forward the results could be considered tampered since they are known. So the consensus is clear, “Sandbox Purists” find themselves in a clear minority here, however a minority vote still needs to be taken into consideration. In this case, the “Minority” would never vote for the “Majority”, therefore the true preference of the community appears to be Option 2, however at 55% vs 45% it really is a toss up. That said, I think everyone who voted option 3 would still prefer at the end of the day that every weapon try to be as unique as possible, there just doesn’t have to be a strict mandate on purity to add a weapon. This really shouldn’t suprise anyone, the majority of people always want more and ideally any addition actually adds more (more of the same does not necessarily mean more).

To get a vibe on potential weapon additions I’m going to add some Polls to this post. Basically, is each weapon listed below considered “Different” (A.K.A. a meaningful addition) or is it just “More of the Same”?

1. M319 Grenade Launcher

• Comparisons: MLRS2 Hydra, Shock Rifle

M319 Grenade Launcher

• Different
• More of the Same

2. M739 SAW

• Comparisons: MA40 AR, Chain Turret

M739 SAW

• Different
• More of the Same

3. M7 SMG

• Comparisons: MA40 AR, Sentinel Beam, CQS48 Bulldog

M7 SMG

• Different
• More of the Same

4. M6 Spartan Laser

• Comparisons: Skewer

M6 Spartan Laser

• Different
• More of the Same

5. Brute Spiker

• Comparisons: MA40 AR, Mangler

Brute Spiker

• Different
• More of the Same

6. T-57 Carbine

• Comparisons: BR75, VK78 Commando, Stalker Rifle, Pulse Carbine, MK50 Sidekick

T-57 Carbine

• Different
• More of the Same

7. Brute Shot

• Comparisons: MLRS2 Hydra, Cindershot

Brute Shot

• Different
• More of the Same

8. M395 DMR

• Comparisons: Stalker Rifle, BR75, VK78 Commando

M395 DMR

• Different
• More of the Same

9. Particle Beam Rifle

• Comparisons: S7 Sniper, Stalker Rifle

Particle Beam Rifle

• Different
• More of the Same

10. Fuel Rod Gun

• Comparisons: Cindershot, M41 SPNKR

Fuel Rod Gun

• Different
• More of the Same

There are more options which can be discussed but I think that’s enough to get a vibe of what is different and what isn’t. Additionally, some might picture a weapon functioning differently in Halo Infinite than it has in the past. For example, the Fuel Rod Gun could have a “Dead Man’s Switch” which allows it to detonate after death or holding Y to drop… if you think there are meaningful changes that can be made to make a weapon “different” comment below.

[Windjammer19]

Just came back to say, you should make a similar thread, but focused more on vehicles.

[Shanesaw9]

Could just bump @Warbrand2’s thread.

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/t/halo-infinite-vehicle-suggestions/512658/4

I might start making some singular vehicle threads to discuss specific ideas / feedback though, Vehicles really interest me… I think 343 can do so much more with Vehicles to the point where you could have a dedicated “Warfare” gamemode balanced around vehicle combat. It would be taking Halo to a place its never been before with respect to vehicles IMO, something 343 could really earn some praise for.

I’ve also been thinking a lot about weapons, trying to get a picture for a totally expanded, yet unique sandbox. Two weapons I’ve thought about so far that I’d be interested in getting your take on.

1. Engineer Tool (Hardlight / Beam / Short)

• Inspired by the “Engineers” of Halo 3 ODST (not sold on the name yet lol). This would be a unique utility weapon for the sandbox because it doesn’t do any damage, instead it would be used for regenerating a teammates shields and repairing vehicles. That’s a pretty niche weapon that wouldn’t really be all that useful in games other than BTB so I’m open to suggestions, but one thought I had (and we touched on this before with giving weapons abilities by dropping them when holding “Y” like the Fuel Rod Gun and the Sentinel Beam) what if holding “Y” dropped the weapon and it became the Regenerator from Halo 3, healing all players in the vicinity. Taking this further I think you could make a varianr based on invincibility instead of regeneration, and the Drop Ability would be a Bubble Shield.

2. M319 Grenade Launcher (Shock / Break-Action / Mid)

• This would be the counterpart to the Engineer Tool in the sandbox as a Utility weapon. This would have the EMP ability, and I’m debating on Holding “Y” allowing players to set up EMP mines. A variant could then be the Sticky Detonator, holding “Y” would place explosive mines.

I think these would be classified as Tier 2 “Utility Weapons”, thoughts?

[SHAD0W_BULL3T]

I think all weapons should be added at least for social/casual play… I also think duel wielding should be brought back. They should balance it like they did in Halo 3, you know, the greatest Halo multiplayer game of all time.

[Dtrav1030]

I definitely see the first option as being the best when you talk about the weapons on the map. However, I would 100% be up for tons of older similar weapons to be introduced that get replaced per map and are randomized in social play.

Examples:
Fuel Rod, Rockets, Cydner
Spartan Laser, Skewer
BR, Needle Rifle, Carbine, DMR, Commando, Light Rifle
SMG, AR
Etc

Would be great for making things more interesting but don’t want to see similar weapons on the same map. Ranked should always have dedicated weapons per map.

[Windjammer19]

I can do that too.

I was just bringing it up here since you were specifically analyzing whether sandbox purity was good for Halo or not. And vehicles are part of that.

Yeah a gun the heals vehicles would be very welcome, especially since they added the doom state mechanic.

I like the idea of “Utility weapons” because, in essense, you have to sacrifice another killing weapon for something that can only be used to protect yourself/allies. A healing gun would be cool, or even a sort of gun that deploys a barrier so long as you hold the trigger.

[CAVEMANcr]

I’m more of a sandbox purist, but I don’t necessarily think more weapons are bad even if they fill the same or similar roles.

For example if the Carbine and DMR get added in they would overlap the functions of the BR, the Commando, and to some extent the Stalker Rifle. With that being said, not all these weapons would appear together in a match. One map might have the Carbine and the Commando, whereas another map features the DMR and the BR. Variety and purity can coexist.

[Shanesaw9]

One could be done for Vehicles, the thing is I feel like the current vehicle sandbox (and I guess this means the traditional vehicle Sandbox) is so barebones IMO that it should be easy to add unique vehicles.

Examples:

1. Jackrabbit

• Instead of being lazy and adding a fire mode to the Mongoose, implement an interesting UNSC Light Vehicle.

2. Marauder

• The Banished currently have no ground troop transport vehicles. This could be unique compared to the Warthog by allowing the Driver to fire plasma Mortars, and two passengers instead of just one… the Warthog would be a faster Light Vehicle.

3. Wolverine

• There are currently no “Medium Vehicles” in Halo, which is just odd to me. The Rocket Hog is lazy (and less appealing than the Gauss Warthog IMO), stick the Rockets on a medium sized UNSC vehicle instead. Less speed, but highly effective vs Air units with its target lock.

4. Kodiak

• There are no pure artillery vehicles in Halo (the Wraith is highly mobile, this would need to be deployed in Seige Mode). This should function like the Hellfire from Unreal Tournament 3 (enemies can destroy an airborne drone to disrupt the artillery fire).

5. Locust

• The locust could be incredibly unique if implemented properly. Firstly, its the only vehicle to fire a direct laser beam. This beam should be a long ranged vehicle killer, very strong, however while firing sensitivity should be limited to allow players to evade. Secondly, its the only controllable vehicle that walks rather than hover / roll. If sized correctly this could allow players to climb terrain to high ground for better sight lines. The Locust could work like the scarab, if players destroy the legs it lowers to the ground leaving it inoperable and boardable.

6. Blisterback

• An aerial vehicle purely dedocated to barraging ground targets with missiles, similar to the Cicada from Unreal Tournament.

7. Falcon

• The only aerial transport vehicle.

8. Elephant

• Super Vehicle that acts as a mini base spawning UNSC weapons and light vehicles.

Anyways the point is I think a thread dedicated to Vehicle uniqueness isn’t necessarily needed as it is too easy to come up with Unique vehicles. Halo barely scratches the surface of Vehicular warfare IMO.