PLEASE VOTE: What is important for Halo 4

This is something that I have been wondering about for a while. Is it more important for Halo 4 to be fiercely competitive, or for it to be a fun experience for all gamers. Depending on which philosophy the game is designed around, many of the arguments on these forums would be decided simply by answering the questions of “Is it fun?” or “Is it Competitive.”

To clarify the responses a little more:
“Competitive”: You most likely support ranked playlists, fast kill times, no Perks/AA’s. You may or may not be Anti-sprint. You feel that balance and even starts should never be compromised.

“Fun”: You generally supports customization. You probably welcome Perks and AA’s more openly than those that vote competitive. You are probably fine with slightly longer kill times. You aren’t as concerned about competitive style balance, as long as the game still feels fair, and is “fun” to play.

For the sake of simplicity I ask that you pick one of the two options, and comment with your opinion below as well.

No one’s answer is right or wrong. I simply wish to judge which side has a stronger presence on these forums.

Thank you for your vote and comment.

Edit: I actually have to take sides because if i don’t I can’t see the poll results either ><
I’ll say fun because at the end of the day halo is a video game. I still want it to be balanced, but i don’t think that the balance should get in the way of new, potentially fun mechanics. Just because it is fun doesn’t mean it can’t be competitively balanced, and just because the game includes “fun” but “imbalanced” features doesn’t mean they have to be included everywhere (I support ranked playlists and competitive modes) but i feel that the game as a whole should simply be fun to play.

2nd Edit: Please refrain from the discussion of specific issues. I have no desire to see this thread turn into an argument over specific features. There are plenty of other threads for that.

You forgot the both option

> You forgot the both option

I excluded it on purpose. I want to force people to pick. My choice would also be both.

Well to me competitive is fun. So the choices are the same.

> Well to me competitive is fun. So the choices are the same.

Yeah mate. These options seem to suggest that fun can’t be competitive.

I’m not sure what to make of this. I’ll say fun, since fun for me is competitive, while fun for others is fat-kid. It’s a win-win.

> > Well to me competitive is fun. So the choices are the same.
>
> Yeah mate. These options seem to suggest that fun can’t be competitive.

Ah… I didn’t mean to imply that. I’m speaking more from a design standpoint as to which angle the game should focus on. I also agree that competitive is fun. But many players use “competitive” or “fun” to define “better” in their arguments on these forums, and use such arguments to say “This must be in the game” or “This muster not be in the game.” Im just interested in seeing what people think.

Competitive? LOL!!!

Halo hasn’t been competitive since Halo CE lol!!!

Halo has been a noobfest with the BR, aim assist, hitscan and melee lunges lol…

The blind MLG fanboys and self titled “competitive” players made Halo the biggest noob game on consoles until CoD came along and took the title lol…

> > > Well to me competitive is fun. So the choices are the same.
> >
> > Yeah mate. These options seem to suggest that fun can’t be competitive.
>
> Ah… I didn’t mean to imply that. I’m speaking more from a design standpoint as to which angle the game should focus on. I also agree that competitive is fun. But many players use “competitive” or “fun” to define “better” in their arguments on these forums, and use such arguments to say “This must be in the game” or “This muster not be in the game.” Im just interested in seeing what people think.

Well, the thing is that usually, if a game works competitively, it’s really fun for the casuals as well. everything should work for everyone.

competitive and casuals shouldn’t be divided so heavily.

> Competitive? LOL!!!
>
> Halo hasn’t been competitive since Halo CE lol!!!
>
> Halo has been a noobfest with the BR, aim assist, hitscan and melee lunges lol…
>
> The blind MLG fanboys and self titled “competitive” players made Halo the biggest noob game on consoles until CoD came along and took the title lol…

It’s not like it was they that asked for it. The’ve been asking for it’s removal, but apart from that, I sort of agree with your opinion. All the games have had their little flaws, and they honestly could have been much better.

Shadowrun,quake and UT4life!

> > Well to me competitive is fun. So the choices are the same.
>
> Yeah mate. These options seem to suggest that fun can’t be competitive.

Both words could apply to both styles. The point is, they’re labels the community will understand, hence them being used.

Nailing a competitive environment is what makes a game fun.

> Nailing a competitive environment is what makes a game fun.

In your opinion. I know some people who do nothing but Customs.

> Well, the thing is that usually, if a game works competitively, it’s really fun for the casuals as well. everything should work for everyone.
>
> competitive and casuals shouldn’t be divided so heavily.

True and more true.

But is it also true that the ARE divided so heavily. I basically wanted to see some numbers regarding where people are coming from. I would be glad if everyone could discuss the various issues without the "Im 100% right, you are 100% wrong attitude.

Im one of the players who feel that a well balanced (“competitive”) game is best. but I also feel that we shouldn’t be scared to change some things… as long as they can be balanced properly (I’m interested in seeing what 343 does with sprint, AA’s, and “perks”). Am I “competitive,” or “casual”? Truth i, by the definitions most players use, I am somewhere in between.

I feel it would be best if more “Competitive” players could be more willing to try new things, and the “Causal” players could be more willing to understand whys many other players feel that balance is important to consider carefully. If there was more acceptance (From BOTH sides) these forums would be a much more enjoyable place. Its called compromise.

Fun, definately. Competitive is fun yes, but if you can play a game, and lose, and still consider it an amazing fun match, sounds like a win to me. EG im happy to have the lowest score on the scoreboard in a game where i spent most of the time piloting/driving vehicles, even if my team loses…

Competitive.

To me, competitive means that the game is balanced and players are on equal footing at the start with equal opportunities to get weapons/powerups as well as have a fighting chance off of spawn. The better player will win 9/10 times. Competitive gameplay can still be “fun” if the game is made correctly. Look at Halo 1. Tons of people that were terrible at that game loved it and played it for hours. As the series has progressed, many of the changes have taken away from the core gameplay that made Halo both fun and competitive.

If Halo 4 has armor abilities and loadouts (as well as new perks) like Reach, it will be a grave failure. 343i needs to bring back the root of Halo that involves guns, grenades, and melees that promote skill. A large skill gap is not a problem if the game has ranked playlists, because most players will get to a point where they are playing against others that are mostly the same general skill. Adding features that minimize the skill gap (AAs, equipment, etc.) reduces the competitiveness.

Most of the casual players won’t know the difference anyway, so why not make a game that allows a high level of competitiveness. For example, with the removal of bleedthrough, the TU Slayer and regular Slayer playlists are virtually the same. I would venture to guess that most people that play Reach can’t tell the difference between the two. I’m glad the MLG playlist is around, because it has the best settings for competitive Halo Reach gameplay.

> Competitive.
>
> To me, competitive means that the game is balanced and players are on equal footing at the start with equal opportunities to get weapons/powerups as well as have a fighting chance off of spawn. The better player will win 9/10 times. Competitive gameplay can still be “fun” if the game is made correctly. Look at Halo 1. Tons of people that were terrible at that game loved it and played it for hours. As the series has progressed, many of the changes have taken away from the core gameplay that made Halo both fun and competitive.
>
> If Halo 4 has armor abilities and loadouts (as well as new perks) like Reach, it will be a grave failure. 343i needs to bring back the root of Halo that involves guns, grenades, and melees that promote skill. A large skill gap is not a problem if the game has ranked playlists, because most players will get to a point where they are playing against others that are mostly the same general skill. Adding features that minimize the skill gap (AAs, equipment, etc.) reduces the competitiveness.
>
> Most of the casual players won’t know the difference anyway, so why not make a game that allows a high level of competitiveness. For example, with the removal of bleedthrough, the TU Slayer and regular Slayer playlists are virtually the same. I would venture to guess that most people that play Reach can’t tell the difference between the two. I’m glad the MLG playlist is around, because it has the best settings for competitive Halo Reach gameplay.

I agree that competitively balance gameplay can, if well implemented, be the basis for a very fun and exciting game.

However, I would like to ask that we refrain from discussing specific issues in this thread. there are plenty of other threads in which we can discuss the merits of AA’s or Loadouts or Perks.

Also, I think plenty of “casuals” would indeed notice the changes, especially if they are large, like the complete abolition of certain features as requested by certain “competitive” groups. While their wants and desires may at times be different from yours, it doesn’t mean their opinions are less strong or less validated. Im not saying you are wrong and they are right. Im just asking that you remember that they are gamers and halo fans, same as you.

For me competitive IS fun.
I’m not saying MLG is the only fun playlist, I want competitive settings in every playlist.

frustration =/= fun
imbalance = frustration
imbalance =/= competition

Nothing ruins the fun as much as getting BS’d by the game, cut the crap and the game is fun.

Look at the difference between Anniversary settings and Reach. No AAs, powerups on maps and fast kill times make the game 10x more enjoyable. the game is for for new players as well as top level players. That’s the spirit for H4.

> Well to me competitive is fun. So the choices are the same.

absolute /thread right there.