Please Do Not Add the Title Update to Invasion

No, I’m not trolling. Invasion is pretty much the only reason I still continue to play Halo. It’s my favorite playlist, and I do not believe the Reach TU would improve Invasion. I intend to discuss each aspect of the Title Update and the massive changes it would have to the gameplay of Invasion. As a preface, I would like to point out my overall experience with Invasion. I’ve played over 3,154 games and have won over 2,900 of them. I’ve written various guides for players and forgers when it comes to Invasion.

These are the various points I intend to expound upon:

  1. Invasion is the only Reach-based gametype
  2. Bleedthrough ruins the skill of close-quarters combat
  3. Bloom Reduction is Unnecessary due to Spartans vs. Elites physics.
  4. Armor Lock is not overpowered in Invasion and serves its role properly.
  5. Active Camo is also not overpowered in Invasion and serves its role properly.
  6. Removal of Sword Block is also an unacceptable change.

1. Invasion is the only Reach-based Gametype

Of all of the new things added to Halo in Reach, Invasion is by far the largest in scale. Halo received a new gametype designed around one-sided objective gameplay featuring Spartans vs. Elites. Invasion is unique to reach, and all of the Reach physics work properly in Invasion. It is my opinion that the TU changes to Reach reflect a desire to make Reach behave as much like previous version of Halo as possible. While I am not completely against those changes in other playlists, I am strongly against their addition to Invasion because they will cause major harm to the basic gameplay of the playlist.

Invasion, unlike most Halo playlists, is about outsmarting your opponents at every turn. Invasion is a playlist about intelligent decision-making, and not pure FPS skill. I mean no disrespect to the other playlists, as I played well over 3000 games of Halo 3 BTB, but many of those playlists are about out-shooting your opponent in confrontations, whereas Invasion is about outmaneuvering your opponents and using all of the weapons you have available to you where applicable. I find that many of the Vanilla Reach playlists are DMR- and power weapon-dominated. In a game of BTB, it is not unsurprising to see someone who picked up 15 kills earn 10 or more with DMR. However, in Invasion, a player can pick up 15 kills with the DMR as his ToD with only 4 kills or less, because in Invasion you play as two different species and use a variety of weapons to achieve your objective.

Moreover, Invasion is the only playlists that features different loadouts that use different weapon sets with different armor abilities. Each loadout has a specific style of gameplay to it, and certain loadouts counter each other to keep them balanced.

I will explain more in my later points, but I am strongly against what I suspect is an attempt to force Invasion to feel like Halo 3, because Invasion did not exist in Halo 3. This is a Reach gametype that I believe should maintain the original Reach physics.

2. Bleedthrough ruins the skill of close-quarters combat

I never thought I would say that, but I stand by the title of this point. I earned over 37,000 BR kills in my time in Halo 3, so I am quite familiar with the nature of BR battles. In Invasion, I have over 16,265 combined kills between the Needle Rifle, DMR, and Pistol. However, I also have over 6,808 AR kills, 5,065 Needler kills, and 4,087 Melee kills.

In the first tier of Invasion, all players spawn with automatic weapons. Players may pick up a few precision weapons, but Tier 1 Invasion features a lot of close quarters combat. In CQC, players must rely on either shooting down their target first, or timing their melees properly. In many situations in an almost-melee situation. I will continue to AR down my opponent as he attempts to melee me and misses to win the fight. Additionally, I will allow him to melee me early as I keep firing my AR, and then melee him as his shields drop. If the TU goes into Invasion, almost every CQC fight in Tier 1 Invasion will end in a tie.

The TU allows players to kill each other when they get their opponent down to about half shields or less. As such, any amount of bullets or plasma players fire into each other will damn-near bring them close enough to death-by-melee. With the TU, timing your melee against an opponent at close quarters will no longer matter, and many Elite weapons will become overpowered.

Currently, it takes three plasma bolts from a plasma pistol to break a Spartan’s shields. With the new settings, it will only take two to bring them to death-by-melee range. It takes 8-14 AR bullets to break an Elite’s shields. With the new settings, it will only take 4-7 bullets to bring an Elite into death-by-melee range. As you can see, this can be extremely problematic in a gametype that features lots of close-quarters confrontations.

3. Bloom Reduction is Unnecessary due to Spartans vs. Elites physics.

Invasion does not require a reduction in bloom due to the Spartans vs. Elites physics. Elite headboxes are larger than Spartans’, and as such, Elites are more vulnerable to DMR headshots. Conversely, Spartan headboxes are smaller, but Needle Rifles have less bloom to them. This creates a balanced fight between Spartans and Elites in Invasion. An Elite picking up a DMR understands that a DMR has greater bloom than a Needle Rifle, and a Spartan using a Needle Rifle understands that Elites have more shields than they do and will require more shots than expected to kill.

By reducing the bloom in Invasion, it increases the effectiveness of DMRs and Needle Rifles over range. As anyone who has played Invasion can tell you, it is extremely difficult to escape DMR and Needler Rifle team fire on Boneyard and Spire Tier 1. One of the saving effects of bloom for Elites is that they are less likely to get headshotted as they move around from cover to cover. In addition, reducing bloom greater reduces vehicle effectiveness, because now players can teamshoot vehicles more quickly at longer ranges.

I understand reducing the bloom to 85% in the normal playlists where Spartans fight each other constantly and DMRs basically dominate the playlist, but Invasion does not play like that at all.

Continued due to character limit…

4. Armor Lock is not overpowered in Invasion and serves its role properly.

Armor Lock is a close-quarters loadout in Invasion that is most powerful in situations where a player must tank lots of damage, understanding that the player must sacrifice the versatility of a long-ranged weapon.

Here are some examples:

-Tier 2 Spire: A Spartan will normally pick sprint to get to the Spire. However, if someone dies on the Spire and spawns on their buddy on or near the Spire, s/he might opt to pick Armor Lock because s/he knows s/he’ll be fighting Elites at close quarters and armor lock will be helpful against the many grenades and/or melees the player will face.

-Tier 2 Boneyard: Spartans with armor lock will often jump into territories to contest the countdown while calling for help from their teammates.

-Tier 2 Breakpoint: Though a player cannot disarm the bomb in armor lock, s/he can survive the multitude of grenades thrown his/her way in an attempt to disarm the bomb.

-Tier 2/3 Boneyard: A Spartan might use armor lock to grab the Wraith’s attention to allow someone else to Sprint on a flank and hijack the Wraith

-Tier 2/3 Boneyard: If Elites manage to control the Spartan’s weapon spawn with the rockets, sniper, laser, etc., Spartans will pick armor lock to force the Elites to waste Rockets. A smart armor locker will exit and reenter armor lock to trick an Elite into wasting two rockets.

-Tier 3 Boneyard: Many people see this one, but it’s when Spartans will camp the core with armor lock and shotguns. However, these players have powerful close quarters loadouts. Needling them from range will make them easy kills, and concussion rifles have the ability to lift players off the ground. Armor lock does not work in the air.

All of these examples only work because of the original settings of armor lock. With the TU changes, none of these legitimate tactical uses of armor lock will work effectively anymore.

I am well aware of how frosting works and how it can allow players to win DMR battles by holding armor lock all the way to its completion, but this is not something that affects Invasion very much because of the variety of weapons employed in the playlist at various ranges.

5. Active Camo is also not overpowered in Invasion and serves its role properly.

Active Camo’s timer is not too long in Invasion. Once again, people are not sitting behind their bases with respawning sniper rifles for 15 minutes of Hemorrhage in Invasion (not including Invasion slayer). Camo users in Invasion most often rely on the radar jammer to flank their opponents. Moreover, camo users can only camp a certain number of spots that are easily identifiable once recognized.

Once again, I understand why the camo change was needed for the rest of Reach, but it isn’t a big deal in Invasion.

6. Removal of Sword Block is also an unacceptable change.

I agree that sword block is frustrating, but being able to sword block is a skill. Additionally, understanding the weaknesses of the sword is a skill. If a player recognizes that the sword will most often lose a confrontation with an armor locker or another shotgun, that player will attempt to flank his or her opponent. That player will also, In Invasion, attempt to use the hologram strategically to confuse his/her opponent by throwing off their radar perception or their timing on the shotgun.

My point is that by removing sword block, it changes the entire gameplay of the sword and removes a lot of the sneakiness required to use the sword effectively in Invasion.

Conclusion

I mean no disrespect to those players who support the changes of the Title Update and how they have affected the rest of Reach Matchmaking. I did not create this thread to argue about whether or not the TU was good for the rest of Reach Matchmaking. I only insist that the TU is not good for Invasion for some of the reasons I have expressed here. Invasion is a unique playlist in Reach for it’s Spartans vs. Elites theme, it’s focus on one-sided objective, its use of vehicles, and a variety of loadouts and weapons.

Please, do not add the Title Update to Invasion and potentially ruin the playlist.

AHHHHHH WALL-O-TEXT!!!

tl;dr

:slight_smile:

TU is fail.

You complain about bleed-through ruining close quarters combat yet you enjoy 100% ruining invasion?

Tu needs to be implemented to keep consistency throughout the playlists.

> Armor Lock is not overpowered in Invasion and serves its role properly.

Are you -Yoinking!- kidding me.

> You complain about bleed-through ruining close quarters combat yet you enjoy 100% ruining invasion?
>
> Tu needs to be implemented to keep consistency throughout the playlists.

Invasion is a game where you use a large portion of the sandbox. Even 85% bloom unbalances all that.

For Bleedthrough: Maybe not with the PRe but the PP would likely be OP. Or nearly every melee fight will be a tie, but it is worse in Invasion as the defender spawns near the objective, while the offensive players spawns ALL the way back when normally he would continue on and spawn an ally. So in a way, Bleedthrough makes it HARDER for Offense, especially on Spire.

If the TU spreading is for consistency then games where it would have little effect on AS, Grifball, etc. would have it as well as other core playlists (TS and Rumble Pit). If either get’s the TU, there WILL be more raging on this forum.

> > Armor Lock is not overpowered in Invasion and serves its role properly.
>
> Are you Yoink! kidding me.

I know it can be frustrating when you get to the core room on T3 boneyard and there are 5 AL shotgunners but be smart about it and you can beat them.

Take the concussion rifle and blast them off the ground! As the OP said you can’t AL mid-air.

Alternatives include using the Plasma Launcher, Needler, and evade/jetpack to stay away from their Shotguns.

And remember, someone in AL can’t kill you and they can’t stop the core.

Dear 343i, please add a separate TU Invasion playlist. Bleedthrough, 85% bloom, sword block, reduced armor lock, etc. would make Invasion so much better and more skillful and would satisfy the people who dislike the TU. Thanks :slight_smile:

> Dear 343i, please add a separate TU Invasion playlist. Bleedthrough, 85% bloom, sword block, reduced armor lock, etc. would make Invasion so much better and more skillful and would satisfy the people who dislike the TU. Thanks :slight_smile:

I am going to reject your proposal for the same reason we rejected splitting Invasion and Invasion slayer into separate lists. There is a consistent population to Invasion, but it’s not big enough to handle the playlist being split apart. I would accept TU gametypes appearing, but they must never be the top option, so six of can always reject the TU by continuing to vote the top option, which has always been standard Invasion.

> Dear 343i, please add a separate TU Invasion playlist. Bleedthrough, 85% bloom, sword block, reduced armor lock, etc. would make Invasion so much better and more skillful and would satisfy the people who dislike the TU. Thanks :slight_smile:

How so? The least you can do is write a single paragraph explaining your reasoning.

I disagree, add the TU to Invasion, give attacking teams the option to spawn with a DMR/NR from Phase 1.

Edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.

> You complain about bleed-through ruining close quarters combat yet you enjoy 100% ruining invasion?
>
> Tu needs to be implemented to keep consistency throughout the playlists.

Exactly.

Edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.

> You complain about bleed-through ruining close quarters combat yet you enjoy 100% ruining invasion?

where does it say in his post that 100% is ruining invasion? i honestly cannot see it mentioned or implied anywhere in his posts…

> Tu needs to be implemented to keep consistency throughout the playlists.

or, TU can be removed from every playlist to keep the consistency.

I agree that Invasion was created and balanced with the vanilla settings in mind. To change them to TU would drastically alter the way the games are played. It would require an overhaul of the maps themselves to reballance the encounters and require changing most of the loadouts…especially Teir 1 where bloom reduction turns the pistol into a much more powerful weapon then anything the Elites spawn with.

Why fix what isn’t broken?

85% Bloom + DMR + Spire = Biggest Spawn Killing Joke

Don’t add TU settings to Invasion.

PS: Can I ask what HWM stands for?

> I disagree, add the TU to Invasion, give attacking teams the option to spawn with a DMR/NR from Phase 1.

like the OP said, Invasion is not like TS or Rumble Pit and it isn’t a DMR domiinated playlist like every other.

> Why fix what isn’t broken?

This to 100%
I fully agree with the OP on every aspect.
The people who posted that they want TU added probably didn’t read sarge’s post or didn’t played enough Invasion.

I’m a huge fan of the TU but I’m not silly enough to realise that it would be out of place in Invasion.

Invasion is just a bit too fragile to tamper with IMO.