Please clarify this forum rule

Games Other Halo
1

RE: Please do not discuss modifying or hacking content on an Xbox console.

> • Do not discuss or post links to inappropriate content.
>
> This includes profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topics, names, material or information. This also includes -Yoink!-, content that promotes cheating or griefing, <mark>information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console</mark>, spoilers (whether it be about Halo or any other game), magazine scans, and leaked content, real or fake.

What constitutes “information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console”

I’m sure it’s safe to assume that it includes discussing how to modify content but primarily I want to know;

[/li]- Does it include directly discussing content that has been modified?
eg: Check of this modded gametype called “no sprint slayer”, it has sprint disabled!

  • Does it include discussing something else altogether but in some way referring to content that has been modified?
    eg: Yeah, a lot of custom game settings just aren’t available. I played a modded gametype called “no sprint slayer” that has sprint disabled and it made me realize just how many simple options have been omitted

If the answer to either of these is yes then shouldn’t any post which mentions headless spartans (for example) be considered a violation of the rule? (seeing as the hack is performed by modifying content and also requires a modified console to do it)

Is this thread/post a violation of the rule because it is in essence a discussion that broadly relates to hacking/modding?

The more some one could elaborate on this rule the better.

I would also like to see the different interpretations that different forum moderators have of this forum rule.

Furthermore I have just realized that this thread/post may be in violation of another of the forum rules.

> • Do not repost content a moderator has removed, repost a topic that has been locked, remove a post edited by a moderator <mark>or post about forum moderation decisions.</mark>
>
> If you have a question or concern about a forum moderation decision, please private message the applicable moderator.

Considering this rule, shouldn’t it be mandatory for a monitor to inform people that they are the one who is responsible for editing a post or locking a thread every time that they do so?

2

for your question about hacking or modifying an xbox 360 console, we cant because it is illegal and against our EULA and Microsoft’s TOS which we agreed to when you sign up for XBL. You are modifying the files of the said console which is bannable.
For your other question, Mods have the power to edit a post or lock because they can. you can post about moderation on a public forum because it’s not for their eyes to see.No one wants to see a member complaining about
a wrongful ban on the public forum when in fact people still do it. The reason why is because it’s easier on the mods who are using their own time out of the day to moderate these forums and keep them keep.

3

> RE: Please do not discuss modifying or hacking content on an Xbox console.
>
>
>
> > • Do not discuss or post links to inappropriate content.
> >
> > This includes profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topics, names, material or information. This also includes -Yoink!-, content that promotes cheating or griefing, <mark>information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console</mark>, spoilers (whether it be about Halo or any other game), magazine scans, and leaked content, real or fake.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What constitutes “information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console”
>
> I’m sure it’s safe to assume that it includes discussing how to modify content but primarily I want to know;
>
> [/li]1. Does it include directly discussing content that has been modified?
> eg: Check of this modded gametype called “no sprint slayer”, it has sprint disabled!
>
> 1. Does it include discussing something else altogether but in some way referring to content that has been modified?
> eg: Yeah, a lot of custom game settings just aren’t available. I played a modded gametype called “no sprint slayer” that has sprint disabled and it made me realize just how many simple options have been omitted
>
> If the answer to either of these is yes then shouldn’t any post which mentions headless spartans (for example) be considered a violation of the rule? (seeing as the hack is performed by modifying content and also requires a modified console to do it)
>
> Is this thread/post a violation of the rule because it is in essence a discussion that broadly relates to hacking/modding?
>
> The more some one could elaborate on this rule the better.
>
> I would also like to see the different interpretations that different forum moderators have of this forum rule.
>
>
> Furthermore I have just realized that this thread/post may be in violation of another of the forum rules.
>
>
>
> > • Do not repost content a moderator has removed, repost a topic that has been locked, remove a post edited by a moderator <mark>or post about forum moderation decisions.</mark>
> >
> > If you have a question or concern about a forum moderation decision, please private message the applicable moderator.
>
> Considering this rule, shouldn’t it be mandatory for a monitor to inform people that they are the one who is responsible for editing a post or locking a thread every time that they do so?
>
>
[/quote]
Discussion/Linking to videos of any modded gametype falls under that rule.
> Both of your examples is grounds for the post to be edited.
>
>
> There have been threads where members complain about running into people who have used the headless spartan hack in online Halo 4 multiplayer. Those threads have always been locked if the discussion is centered on
>
> 1. How to recreate it
> 2. Calling out members(posting their gamertag). Your best option in that case is to report them over Xbox Live.
>
>
> Regarding your third question,every time a post is edited, a monitor will send out a warning pm. You are free to discuss it with them over private messages. If a thread is locked and in the event that you see no reason explaining why, feel free to pm any monitor and they will get back to you.
>
>
>
> Editing for science. Ignore this.

4

To add - If you see a post has been edited but want to know who did it, if you open up the menu at the bottom of each post you will see “Edited by Moderator” (Or something similar) and if you click on that, it will tell you who edited the post.

5

> for your question about hacking or modifying an xbox 360 console, we cant because it is illegal and against our EULA and Microsoft’s TOS which we agreed to when you sign up for XBL. You are modifying the files of the said console which is bannable.

The hacking or modification of any content or console is a vilotaion of the both the Xbox Live Code of Conduct and Xbox Live Terms of Use (as is using a modified console to gain access to Xbox Live). Both are grounds for the suspension or termination of your XBL account but neither is illegal.

And while the act of hacking or modding is prohibited by the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use, the discussion of them is not.

> • Don’t distribute, post, publish, upload, disseminate or discuss defamatory, infringing, obscene, sexual or unlawful materials in any format (images, audio, video, text, etc.). Prohibited materials include, without limitation, child -Yoink!- or illegal drugs. “Sound alike” words or phrases or puns that reference these topics are also prohibited. <mark>(Note: modified content is not mentioned here)</mark>
> • Don’t modify or hack game content to create cheats.
> • Don’t make unauthorized modifications to your account profile or its contents.

Xbox LIVE Code of Conduct

> You can’t use unauthorized software or hardware to access the Services, nor can you modify an Authorized Device in any unauthorized way (e.g., through unauthorized repairs, unauthorized upgrades, or unauthorized downloads).
>
> You must not attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute, or use for other purposes the Services, any game, application, or other content available or accessible through the Services, or any hardware associated with the Services or with an Authorized Device. If you do, we may cancel your account and your ability to access the Services
> <mark>(Note: This does not mention that discussing such actions is a violation )</mark>

Xbox LIVE Terms of Use

> Posts created to inform or discuss how to violate the policies found within the Xbox.com Terms of Use and Notices and Xbox LIVE and Games for Windows LIVE Terms of Use are also prohibited.
> <mark>(Note: Modified content is not mentioned in the Xbox.com Terms of Use)</mark>

Waypoint Forums Guidelines
Xbox.com Terms of Use

> • Do not discuss or post links to inappropriate content.
>
> This includes profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topics, names, material or information. This also includes -Yoink!-, content that promotes cheating or griefing, information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console, spoilers (whether it be about Halo or any other game), magazine scans, and leaked content, real or fake.
> <mark>(Note: This statement is the one in question)</mark>

Halo Waypoint Forum Rules

The only document that possibly implies that the discussion of modified content is in some way prohibited is the Halo Waypoint Forum Rules. But the actual meaning of this part of the rules is unclear and this lack of clarity is the reason for this entire thread.

6

> Discussion/Linking to videos of any modded gametype falls under that rule.
> Both of your examples is grounds for the post to be edited.
>
>
> There have been threads where members complain about running into people who have used the headless spartan hack in online Halo 4 multiplayer. Those threads have always been locked if the discussion is centered on
>
> 1. How to recreate it
> 2. Calling out members(posting their gamertag). Your best option in that case is to report them over Xbox Live.

What about a post or thread that links to a video which shows the mod in use but does not include any information on how to recreate it nor displays any information that identifies the modder (ie their GT is never visible)

Would such a post be edited?

Would such a thread be locked?

I hope you understand my confusion because your response seems contradictory.

Take my 2nd example,

> [/li]1. Does it include discussing something else altogether but in some way referring to content that has been modified?
> eg: Yeah, a lot of custom game settings just aren’t available. I played a modded gametype called “no sprint slayer” that has sprint disabled and it made me realize just how many simple options have been omitted
[/quote]
You state that this would be in violation of the rules and yet it provides no link, does not include information about how to recreate it and does not supply any details of those responsible for the hack. In fact, it’s discussing custom game options (or lack there of) and doesn’t in any way center on the modded content at all.
>
>
>
> > Regarding your third question,every time a post is edited, a monitor will send out a warning pm. You are free to discuss it with them over private messages. If a thread is locked and in the event that you see no reason explaining why, feel free to pm any monitor and they will get back to you.
>
> I was unaware that a PM was sent every time a post is edited as I’ve never actually had one of my posts edited or one of my threads locked

7

> To add - If you see a post has been edited but want to know who did it, if you open up the menu at the bottom of each post you will see “Edited by Moderator” (Or something similar) and if you click on that, it will tell you who edited the post.

Thank you, I didn’t know this. Is this option still available when the post is not your own?. Also, this menu is not available if the thread has been locked but in this event I suppose (as DeepCee mentioned) I could PM any monitor to find out why such action was taken.

8

Yes it is still visible on posts that are not your own. I’ve “edited” Deep’s post up above so you can test it out. :slight_smile:

RE: Posting/linking to videos of modded content: This is considered a violation of the “Do not post/discuss modded content” so would be subject to moderation and likely locked.

Realize all of this is a general guideline. There will always be exceptions and I hesitate to state anything definitively as I don’t want that coming back later as, “But snickerdoodle you said this here!” kind of thing.

9

> Yes it is still visible on posts that are not your own. I’ve “edited” Deep’s post up above so you can test it out. :slight_smile:
>
>
>
> RE: Posting/linking to videos of modded content: This is considered a violation of the “Do not post/discuss modded content” so would be subject to moderation and likely locked.
>
> Realize all of this is a general guideline. There will always be exceptions and I hesitate to state anything definitively as I don’t want that coming back later as, “But snickerdoodle you said this here!” kind of thing.

I’m just going to poke in my two cents of Moderatoration and normal member experience.

I’ve always found it better and easier to tap a mod or admin on a shoulder and ask a question about a questionable topic, rather than just posting it and having it locked, deleted, and me ending up with the “You’re temporarily banned for a 1000 years” page. Also if a mod/admin edits your post(s) and/or locks your thread, it’s always better to find the mod/admin who did, and ask the reason for it being locked/edited. Luckily these days the moderators on these forums clearly state the reason for editing, and leave the original post in a spoiler tag.

As per to what I said above, I want to ask the kind mods this:
Is it ok to talk about PC based moding, not like moding to cheating, but constructive moding, like custom maps, weapons, models, stories, textures, sounds, and the list goes on. Things of that nature?

10

> Yes it is still visible on posts that are not your own. I’ve “edited” Deep’s post up above so you can test it out. :slight_smile:
>
>
>
> RE: Posting/linking to videos of modded content: This is considered a violation of the “Do not post/discuss modded content” so would be subject to moderation and likely locked.

I understand that monitors moderate these forums at their own discretion and use their interpretation of the rules as the guideline to do so. However, I think it’s possible that the way in which this rule has been worded allows it to be easily misinterpreted because it lacks clarity.

> • Do not discuss or post links to inappropriate content.
>
> This includes profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topics, names, material or information. This also includes -Yoink!-, content that promotes cheating or griefing, information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console, spoilers (whether it be about Halo or any other game), magazine scans, and leaked content, real or fake.

Broken down the rule states:

Do not discuss or post links to inappropriate content. (Such as) information about hacking or modding content on an Xbox console.

Take note, the rule states hacking and not hacked, modding and not modded

Hack and Modify are both verbs

The basic form of a verb is called the infinitive. It normally occurs with the word to as in ‘I want to ask you a question.’ Verbs may change their spelling according to which tense is being used.

The past tense refers to things that happened in the past. To make the past tense of regular verbs, the ending -ed is added to the infinitive (‘I asked her a question’). The present participle refers to things that are still happening. To make the present participle, the ending -ing is added to the infinitive (‘I am asking her a question’).

So basically hacking/modding define an act as it’s being performed, Hacked/Modded on the other hand would have suggested the end result of such an action.

Define Information:
[/li]- Facts provided or learned about something or someone

  • Knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc
  • Factual data

When all this is brought together the rule implies that one can not discuss or post links to knowledge or factual data pertaining to the act of hacking or modding. Which would include subjects such as how these things are done or what is required to accomplish them. This is not the same as discussing or posting links to items which have already been hacked/modded and such things would not really contain any factual knowledge or data for one to learn anyway.

I realize that the rule “is what it is” and it’s meaning is subjective but in all honesty I believe that the true intention of this rule is not to impede any and all discussion of such things no matter how light-hearted, trivial or minutely related to the subject they are but instead is meant to prevent the knowledge of how to hack from being shared and propagated.

This would also seem more logical/appropriate as it would line up more succinctly with the terms stated in the Xbox Live Code of Conduct and Terms of Use.

> Realize all of this is a general guideline. There will always be exceptions and I hesitate to state anything definitively as I don’t want that coming back later as, “But snickerdoodle you said this here!” kind of thing.

oh no, my master plan has been discovered… :wink:

but in all seriousness, surely you must at least agree that if the rule clearly stated that one can not discuss or provide information about how to hack/mod (for example) then this particular rule would not only be much clearer but would also be much easier to moderate and enforce.

11

> I’m just going to poke in my two cents of Moderatoration and normal member experience.
>
>
> I’ve always found it better and easier to tap a mod or admin on a shoulder and ask a question about a questionable topic, rather than just posting it and having it locked, deleted, and me ending up with the “You’re temporarily banned for a 1000 years” page. Also if a mod/admin edits your post(s) and/or locks your thread, it’s always better to find the mod/admin who did, and ask the reason for it being locked/edited. Luckily these days the moderators on these forums clearly state the reason for editing, and leave the original post in a spoiler tag.
>
>
> As per to what I said above, I want to ask the kind mods this:
> Is it ok to talk about PC based moding, not like moding to cheating, but constructive moding, like custom maps, weapons, models, stories, textures, sounds, and the list goes on. Things of that nature?

Like I said earlier, I’ve never actually had one of my posts edited or threads locked.

If I ever did want to post something but wasn’t sure if it violated any rules then I would do the same and ask a monitor first.

The reason for why I started this thread was because there have been so many occasions where I’ve gone to hit ‘reply’ on a thread only to be informed that ‘This action is not allowed’ because the thread has been locked while I was reading it or even worse, I’d just finished writing a sizable post and encountered a similar error when I press ‘post’. I then find myself questioning why the thread was locked in the first place because it seemed to be a completely harmless topic and there appeared to be no ‘valid’ reason for it being locked

12

The rule is meant as “Don’t discuss mods/hacks or the act of modding/hacking.” Even if you’re not saying how to do the action, you’re still talking about it, which will cause people to go out and find it. So, how do you stop people from breaking the game? You stop all discussion about it.

13

Modded content is modded content and discussing it is still discussing the act of modifying content on your Xbox so no - it’s not allowed.

Hacking/modding is neither allowed nor condoned by Xbox or MS thus any discussion of it is neither allowed nor condoned here.

Just because a video is not of HOW to mod but rather of A mod, doesn’t make it less egregious or less inappropriate.

The ONLY modding that is allowed to be talked about (Stealth, this applies to your question as well) is modding within Halo Custom Edition for the PC.

14

> The ONLY modding that is allowed to be talked about (Stealth, this applies to your question as well) is modding within Halo Custom Edition for the PC.

That’s why I asked. :stuck_out_tongue: Tho I kind of wished Microsoft/Xbox wouldn’t be so uptight over some types of modding. But hey, it’s their system.

15

> Modded content is modded content and discussing it is still discussing the act of modifying content on your Xbox so no - it’s not allowed.
>
> Hacking/modding is neither allowed nor condoned by Xbox or MS thus any discussion of it is neither allowed nor condoned here.
>
> Just because a video is not of HOW to mod but rather of A mod, doesn’t make it less egregious or less inappropriate.
>
>
> The ONLY modding that is allowed to be talked about (Stealth, this applies to your question as well) is modding within Halo Custom Edition for the PC.

By your logic there would be no difference between discussing an embassy that had just been bombed and informing people of how to go about bombing an embassy… I think it’s pretty clear that the two are entirely different and one is much more egregious than the other.

You really haven’t addressed any of my arguments;
The literal meaning of the sentence pertaining to the ‘rule’
The subjective purpose that the rule is intended to perform
How it lines up with the statements made in the XBL CoC and XBL ToU.
How its obscurity can easily lead to it’s misinterpretation (as is evident in the differences between DeepCee’s and your own opinions).
etc

Instead you have resorted to stonewalling but I suppose I should have expected this having asked such a question on a forum for all to see.

And on that note I would like to point out that I find it interesting yet unsurprising that only 2 monitors have provided any kind of response and that 1 of them only did so once. I can only assume that one of reasons (if not the most likely reason) for this is that it’s because all the monitors (may) have different opinions on the subject and are avoiding the question so not to contradict each other. To me this is evidence in itself that the meaning of the rule is simply not clear.

I am not saying whether or not this type of behavior should or should not be allowed.
My original intent was to try and understand why (or bring to light the possibility that) this rule is being interpreted and enforced in contradiction to what it actually states. But as it’s obvious that this discussion is not going to develop any further I would simply like to suggest that the Forum Rules be amended so that the meaning of this rule (whatever that meaning is actually supposed to be) is more definitive so that it clearly reflects it’s intended purpose and/or function.

16

Quit being argumentive. Just don’t talk about mods, at all. That simple.

17

No, it’s nothing like discussing bombings/embassies. Stop drawing such drastic analogies.

Just because more mods don’t post doesn’t mean the rule isn’t the same. We don’t all need to post to have a rule clarified. The rule is very straight forward and YOU are making more complicated than it needs to be.

Don’t discuss modding and/or modded content. Period.