Please bring back Firefight Limited, with some tweaks

Games Other Halo
13

> > I wasn’t talking about jackpots. I was talking about the normal payout. A lot of people play Arcade over Limited because it’s easier, the games are 10 minutes shorter, and the credit payouts are about the same. As much as I loved limited even I would sometimes play an Arcade game or two for the easy credits.
>
> It’s the same really, increasing cR Payouts doesn’t fix a playlist, it plagues more into a playlist with problems.

An imbalance in credit payouts will discourage a lot of casual players from playing something they might otherwise play. You keep talking about fixing the playlist, but ways to improve the playlist is a different issue. The playlist could benefit from some changes, which I outlined. But my comments about the credit payouts is still valid on its own merits. Games that require more skill and last longer should have bigger payouts.

14

Nobody even played it anyway. Why bring it back?

15

> Nobody even played it anyway. Why bring it back?

Isn’t this kind of a jerk attitude?

16

> It’s the same really, increasing cR Payouts doesn’t fix a playlist, it plagues more into a playlist with problems.

What are you talking about?

Basically 343’s main problem with Limited was that it had the lowest population. Increasing payouts in Limited, definitely relative to the other FF playlists, would help alleviate that problem.

That’s not to say that either SkyTag, me, or anyone else believes the playlist should come back exactly as it was and can’t be improved on a gametype basis.

Anyway, to SkyTag, one of the other reasons they removed it was because they were running out of space for playlists (that’s 343i’s David Ellis).

I think we’re going to have to work on the assumption that there won’t be any more than three firefight playlists going forward.

Which, to my mind, means Arcade needs to die.

17

Doubles is kind of like limited, it’s basically score attack with two players.

I don’t understand the hate that Arcade gets…it’s called “Arcade” for a reason you know? Of course it’s going to be more laid back and silly compared to Limited. Limited was a more serious environment.

I personally play Score Attack. Challenging and I’m all by my lonesome.

It gets boring though as it’s the same waves all the time. Grunts, then Jackals, then stupid Brutes (who more often than not stick themselves with grenades instead of me), the ever annoying Skirmishers, and the Elite horde that just charges you with reckless abandon at the end. They need to change it up every once in awhile, randomize the waves or something.

I agree with increased payouts too, a greater incentive could lure people in and they might even find that they like the gametype.

18

Excellent post sir. I most assuredly feel your frustration. Although the FF limited playlist numbers were small, the population was consistent in all but the most obscure hours of the day. Search times for games were not unbearable and most of the players were very dedicated to the playlist. For us, FF limited was a key reason why we played reach; it was what made the game enjoyable to us. This is why many of us are so bewildered and ultimately frustrated by its removal.

I would humbly offer my own service record as an example - hundreds of FF limited games logged - all relatively consistent. What factors lead to 343’s decision? The playlist did not have downward trend in population - in consistently held several hundred players. What about games logged? There must have been thousands of FF limited games played per week. Did 343 look at these statistics?

As you mention, why take away a core game mechanic? Reach has 3 essential mechanics: multiplayer, campaign, and firefight. All game modes are playable online for credits. Limited was closest to FF’s ODST roots - arcade does not do justice to the FF gametype. Cooperative campaign’s population was hardly above FF limited, often with only a few hundred players. I cannot recall when it was last consistently above 1,000.

What may be most confounding, is that literally days before the launch of a new, much-anticipated FF map, an essential FF playlist is eliminated. Why? If FF limited was to ultimately be culled, why not at least wait until sometime after the release of new map that is being promoted? Many of us have been eagerly awaiting the limited game play experience on this map. If this map is only playable in matchmaking via arcade, why would one be tempted to use the chain gun warthog when a FRG and jetpack are available as a loadout? Why would one venture out on the map for a strategic position and make timely use of the man cannon back to base, again when a FRG and jetpack are available at spawn?

As you mentioned OP, it would just be nice to understand 343’s logic as to the removal of FF limited. I could hardly wait to read today’s bulletin, hoping that given the large number of posts about limited in the past week, that 343 may address its removal, if even just a sentence or 2 to give us more than the “slow death” nonsense from last week’s bulletin.

I have not yet lost faith in 343, and we can only hope that a new FF playlist (similar to your suggestions above) is released, or at very least that FF limited can be re-instated. If our FF options remain unchanged from now until November 2012, I fear we can only be further disheartened at the prospects for firefight in Halo 4…

With much respect and admiration, please 343, let us have a firefight gametype in reach worth playing!

19

> They should bring back Firefight Limited back but as close to ODST’s Firefight as possible.

This,

I wanted to play firefight limited but it felt just like firefight arcade with lives and no power weapons, As in we rushed to compete for score there was no team work there was no end of the world kind of survival tactics just a less hectic FF arcade where you got less credits/kills and anther way to lose.

I think that if FF limited was changed to remove set/game time limits and could go on forever and removed gaining credits purely from game length(so not OP at credit farming) but longer the game the more kills so the more credits you get.

Doing this would make people who want a ODST FF matchmaking happy (which is what i think the point of FF limited was for)

20

No news about FF in the weekly bulletin; only pumpkins and dumb and superficial info about almost NOTHING. -Yoink- move, 343.

21

Oh hell no. Limited is gone? I have no reason at all to play Firefight outside of customs now.

Limited was the only playlist which didn’t reward you for going full person by running smack into suicide grunts with your rocket lawn chair and dying 50 times per wave.

22

Removal of FF limited made me a saaaaaad panda…

23

needs to come back as an “Firefight unlimited” mode… without limit of time/rounds, just lives (not so many btw) with ever increasing difficult and enemies, like a freaking survival mode should be… oh also VS must come back with twaeks, by far the best mode of FF is VS

24

I too think they should bring back firefight limited and in a more odst way, I enjoyed the thrill of tryin to do as much damage as possible while keeping myself alive where as firefight arcade i don’t really care even though I find it insanely hard to die.

Another thing aswell, the weekly challenge this week would have been well suited to the firefight limited playlist if they took out the time limit and made it as many sets as u can survive, instead what i ended up doin was settin up a firefight game with unlimited lives, 4x oversheild, unlimited ammo on any weapon and it was just a case of mindlessly killing covies who didn’t stand a chance, Endure is all about the challenge and the team work and yet they let u activate wat ever skull u want to make it easier. Not impressed

25

> I don’t understand why all of the sudden posts for the removal of Firefight limited. Nobody talked about it when it existed and out of nowhere everyone is wanting it back. The low population of that playlist is what killed it. You may have enjoyed it OP, but in notion to all the other playlists it was pretty pointless to keep it around. It was always less than 500 players even during prime hours.
>
> :confused:

It’s not just Firefight Limited–every playlist is 300-500 players when I get on at 11 p.m. Pacific, except for BTB, TS and LD. So, you may want to back off blaming Firefight players because the entire game is a ghost town. Or, does 343 remove 15 playlists?

OP, I prefer FF Limited as well, but Reach’s population is done. Better off lobbying for an overhaul of Firefight in Halo 4. Reach is history, and pretty much deserves to be after the terrible lateness of the TU. If it had come out in January-February the game might have been saved.

26

I also prefer Firefight Limited.

27

I miss it, it was a fun change of pace to arcade, and the most challenging playlist on reach i thought

28

I can only hope they temporarily removed it, while they add a few new gametypes to the mix. I mean, it doesn’t make sense, it’s like removing all Slayer playlists and replace them with Grifball playlists.

Yes Arcade is fun, but Limited is challenging, and the two are needed.

29

> I don’t understand why all of the sudden posts for the removal of Firefight limited. Nobody talked about it when it existed and out of nowhere everyone is wanting it back. The low population of that playlist is what killed it. You may have enjoyed it OP, but in notion to all the other playlists it was pretty pointless to keep it around. It was always less than 500 players even during prime hours.
>
> :confused:

Unfortunately, I agree with Spawnling. The population was low for forever and for good reason. I’m not too bad at Limited, but I was always pissed off by the randoms I usually would get paired with burning through our lives 5 at a time while I die once or twice, usually to a freaking Grunt who chucks a grenade 5m to my right and the blast is enough to kill me because I’m so weak, and then have to watch as they screw the pooch or get a random Hero after I take care of 90% of a wave.

The playlist was frustrating. Period. I would love to have a team and work together. When I go into any FF playlist I always watch my teammates’ backs. I’d hope they do the same (many times they don’t). I’ve been of the opinion that the list was artificially difficult. As the OP noted, if a drop pod of Elite Ultras landed, basically they just run at you and shoot and evade until you’re dead. And the Spartans are too slow and weak to deal with one Ultra, let alone four. The core component can be kept the same, that is, the limited life pool. But changes need to be made to make it less frustrating. Both movement speed and defenses need to be increased. All Covenant traits need to be dialed back (sight, shootiness, etc.) I also think the melee strength needs to be dialed WAY up to make hitting an Elite worthwhile. As long as you still have to worry about dying often, the game can still be less frustrating and make you feel like you actually have a chance of surviving against any individual opponent you might run up against.

30

> Anyway, to SkyTag, one of the other reasons they removed it was because they were running out of space for playlists (that’s 343i’s David Ellis).

Then they should address the underlying reason there’s a hard limit on the number of playlists. That’s just dumb, another case of taking the easy way over the right way. And if that’s the case, why did the news update announcing it’s removal lie to us about the reason?

I would also argue that the logic to remove the smallest playlist was flawed. Firefight Limited was the only real 4-person Firefight playlist. Arcade is for kids wanting to goof around and earn easy credits, not what Firefight was created to be. Limited had some issues, but as a matter of principle there should be a normal firefight 4-person playlist, just as there should be a co-op campaign playlist (which by the way is almost as small as Firefight Limited was).

It would have been much better to remove Arcade and make the games in Limited easier, or combine Limited and Arcadefight into a single 4-person Firefight playlist where voting would decide which you played same as we have in Doubles. That way if three of your friends want to play limited you can go in as a party and all vote for it. We don’t even have that option now.

Or, they could get rid of Squad Slayer and let the people who played it play Team Slayer or BTB. 5v5 really deserves a separate playlist from 4v4?

31

> > Anyway, to SkyTag, one of the other reasons they removed it was because they were running out of space for playlists (that’s 343i’s David Ellis).
>
> Then they should address the underlying reason there’s a hard limit on the number of playlists. That’s just dumb, another case of taking the easy way over the right way. And if that’s the case, why did the news update announcing it’s removal lie to us about the reason?
>
> I would also argue that the logic to remove the smallest playlist was flawed. Firefight Limited was the only real 4-person Firefight playlist. Arcade is for kids wanting to goof around and earn easy credits, not what Firefight was created to be. Limited had some issues, but as a matter of principle there should be a normal firefight 4-person playlist, just as there should be a co-op campaign playlist (which by the way is almost as small as Firefight Limited was).
>
> It would have been much better to remove Arcade and make the games in Limited easier, or combine Limited and Arcadefight into a single 4-person Firefight playlist where voting would decide which you played same as we have in Doubles. That way if three of your friends want to play limited you can go in as a party and all vote for it. We don’t even have that option now.
>
> Or, they could get rid of Squad Slayer and let the people who played it play Team Slayer or BTB. 5v5 really deserves a separate playlist from 4v4?

I’m wondering at the logic removing the “smallest” playlist. What about Team Slayer and Squad Slayer? In essence, the only difference between the two lists is the big team restriction. Why not combine the two lists into a new revamped Team Slayer playlist that has big team restrictions. You could make the list 8 or 10 players, it really doesn’t matter. That kills one playlist without removing a gametype playlist that is different from all other playlists. Or kill Premium battle and roll the DLC into all existing playlists as a requirement to play, ala Halo 3? Or Grifball? Grifball has had significant lag and mechanical issues in MM since its inception and is the reason I don’t play the list anymore. Any of these ideas could be tried to avoid killing a playlist that is different from other FF playlists but wasn’t.

32

Since they got rid of FF LTD, they should add a variant of FF Arcade where you lose lives. Getting rid of the original format of FF and not replacing it in some form or fashion is kind of whack, putting it not so eloquently.