Please bring back DLC-Free Infinity Slayer

Games Other Halo
1

I don’t normally post here but wanted to given the changes to Infinity Slayer (required DLC).

I was extremely disappointed by this. If it was a different playlist (e.g. Snipers, DLC Playlist, etc.) then ok, but this is the BASIC , fundamental playlist that forms the H4 matchmaking experience. The Infinity Slayer population has dwindled DRASTICALLY as others move to Big Team or other playlists for a 4v4 basic Halo slayer experience. Big Team, though, with the vehicles is very different, to the point where I’ve begun going into 5v5 CTF games as needed.

Look, long story short, I am sure both sides of this conversation - me and those who have the DLC - have opposite and strong opinions.

I just want a BASIC 4v4 slayer experience. At the moment, the closest I can get to that is doing CTF (backing out if big/vehicle maps are chosen) and doing that. On principle, I can’t believe that the most basic multiplayer game type cannot be accessed by just buying the game. Unless I am wrong and Big Team is now the basic Halo experience, in which case I retract my argument.

One way or another, please allow 4v4 slayer right out of the box. Even if it is some tiny, backwater playlist. Or make DLC optional (like Social Slayer in H3 became - it would load DLC maps into the rotation if everyone had them, otherwise basic maps). I doubt Majestic will be free like the H3 Heroic map pack was. Right now there may be a lot of people inconvenienced because, for example, I know I will play CTF for small-map slayer instead of the flag and that hurts everyone.

I am lucky (as are many of us - though I won’t say most because I don’t know) because GTAV can keep us occupied for this “test” period, but I hope you return a basic 4v4 playlist that someone can play right out of the box.

For those who want to play DLC, perhaps make other playlists - DLC Slayer and DLC Objective - for those, then you guys can play those (not sure why this didn’t work last time though, I’ll admit). Those who want to play DLC or have DLC maps included with default maps could play the DLC playlists, and for those of us “cheap” guys, we can deal with “Basic” Infinity Slayer.

EDIT: Added this (from a reply in the thread I give below) to make my views more clear.

For example, suppose X players have no DLC and Y players have DLC.

Option 1: Infinity Slayer (no DLC required) and DLC Slayer
X players will play Infinity Slayer
Y player will play DLC Slayer

Option 2: Infinity Slayer (DLC required)
X players cannot play Infinity Slayer
Y players will play Infinity Slayer

Ergo the Infinity Slayer with DLC will be very similar to a DLC Slayer playlist when a regular Infinity is available. There may be a few people who will be urged to buy DLC, but this will be in the minority.

2

> Problem is: The. Population. CAN’T. Support. 2. Playlists.
>
> I will repeat it again. The Halo 4 population can’t support, nor justify, having two separate playlists. The population of one standard DLC playlist when it was out averaged ~250-300 players. Cut that in half when you have a second playlist. It won’t work. Search times would be horrid and yes, there would most likely be an increase in lag.
>
> Which essentially amounts to punishing DLC players, who have paid more for the maps as a premium, to be forced into a low population crap playlist because I want the maps, instead of going the route they are going now where the playlist still has respectable numbers and people playing DLC. Pony up the money and get over it.

3

Apollo, then you will get similarly small numbers with a new Infinity Slayer playlist with mandatory DLC so it will be the same experience, won’t it? Perhaps a few people will give in and pay, but I am guessing the rest won’t pay. This basically will kill off thousands of players. If the goal is to keep the population, then this is against that. If the goal is to reward DLC players, then I fail to see how this is different because it essentially functions as a DLC-only playlist because it has the same barrier to entry.

EDIT: I perhaps may be wrong about people not buying the new maps - maybe that is where we will agree to disagree. Others may not see it this way, but I don’t like the feeling of being held hostage to pay, even if that’s not what it’s intended to be like.

4

They said in the weekly bulletin that it is a testing period. They’re already getting strong feed back from the population.

No need to make posts like this, as you have already voted by not purchasing the DLC to be able to play it.

5

I really kind of think if you don’t have all the DLC you’re not really a fan of Halo and don’t deserve to play it anyways. Just my opinion.

6

^^^^^This is exactly the response I was predicting and expecting to start appearing on the forums except this thread’s OP is articulated quite a bit better than what I imagined I’d be seeing.

The following quote is what I posted within the 9-11-13 bulletin on 9-12-13…

> As far as experimenting with making the most popular playlist a DLC required playlist all I can say is be careful 343i because that’s also a big invitation for massive negative public outcry (and Halo 4 desertion). While I will certainly enjoy getting a larger opportunity to play many of the maps I purchased and want to play more regularly I can certainly see how you’ll only end up -Yoink!- off a large portion of players who’ll find other ways to spend their time online other than with Halo 4. Needless to say I will be quite interested to see what the results of this experiment will be - short-term and long-term.

Also, the early massive population drop (results) for the general Team Slayer playlist is even worse than I thought it might be; granted with GTA5 being recently released some reduction impact was expected to be seen across the board for the playlists, but slayer with the DLC requirement got absolutely gashed. So the main question I have is… should 343i continue this experiment past just this week? I mean just think of all the players who don’t visit the forums or read the bulletins; do you think they understand it’s just an experiment or do they believe that 343i have just taken away their favorite playlist in an attempt to bully them into purchasing the map packs? With that realistic belief I can certainly see a large percentage of the population that had remained active deciding to simply move on even further from playing the game or entirely.

Maybe the everyday regulars who don’t have the map packs will try playing some of the other playlists for a time, but those who were occasionally putting the game in might simply move on completely after feeling… “betrayed or bullied” by 343i. So a question I would ask 343i directly is… how does this massive population drop within the previously top playlist correspond with improving the matchmaking experience which was the purpose behind these decisions? Yes, I’m happy I get to play more of the maps I paid for, but at what short-term and long-term cost in quality and experiences of online matches?

I have to wonder whether the consequences were thoroughly thought through and weighed by 343i and their Matchmaking Team. I mean I fully understand the rational behind their decisions (they clearly spelled out the reasoning behind them and they certainly make some sense), but it also only takes a little bit of critical thinking and reasoning to ponder out the possible risks or consequences of those decisions too (I’m also referring to the consolidation of the Big Team playlists and eventually the reduction of War Game’s playlists down to a certain specific 13 w/ 1 being a rotational playlist).

I was left wondering if the “juice would be worth the squeeze” – to borrow a quote from the film The Girl Next Door – and my position then (when I wrote that post within the bulletin thread) as well as now remains that it probably isn’t worth it. I just don’t think it’s worth the risk of losing a significant chunk of players from what had been the game’s most popular playlist; I mean who knows how many of those players have a strong enough desire to turn on the game to play any of the other game-type/variants – or did 343i actually weigh that question’s answer when performing their analysis? Did they actually have some probability statistics to help them with feeling comfortable with their rational? Well, only time will tell if they were right or wrong to make that gutsy call.

I personally think a better and safer decision would have been to begin a slow and progressive marketplace price drop on the map packs with constant Dashboard advertising along with introducing a DLC requirement on the soon to be rotational playlists only, plus some other different tactics in-regards to a consolidation plan for War Games (see link).

Marketing Plan: After the GOTY edition has been out for a month reduce the prices on the map packs to nearly equal the costs of the map packs within the value of the GOTY. Then over the following year or so continue to market the map packs with further and further price drops – reducing their cost further every 3 months or so until they bottom out somewhere at or under 80 Microsoft points for each.

The marketing plan along with the introduction of DLC required rotational playlists instead of the game’s bread and butter (aka most popular) playlists and a tweaked consolidation plan should all help provide a more positive carrot-like impact on the consumers without the need to take on as much risk for negative backlash or long-term harm.

7

> They said in the weekly bulletin that it is a testing period. They’re already getting strong feed back from the population.
>
> No need to make posts like this, as you have already voted by not purchasing the DLC to be able to play it.

No need to make a post like this says you. The OP can make whatever posts he likes. Everyone has the right to post what he/she feels may catch the eye of the 343 brass. That’s why we post. Whether positive or negative to give feedback. I believe the OP was offering his feedback and it is quite relevant.

8

> > They said in the weekly bulletin that it is a testing period. They’re already getting strong feed back from the population.
> >
> > No need to make posts like this, as you have already voted by not purchasing the DLC to be able to play it.
>
> No need to make a post like this says you. The OP can make whatever posts he likes. Everyone has the right to post what he/she feels may catch the eye of the 343 brass. That’s why we post. Whether positive or negative to give feedback. I believe the OP was offering his feedback and it is quite relevant.

I said there was no need. I didn’t criticize him for it or anything. More power to him if he wanted to for any reason whatsoever.

9

And what about those of us who willingly paid for the DLC? Should we never get the opportunity to play the content we put up our hard-earned money for because you don’t want to keep up with the game? Many titles leave you SOL if you want to play online but don’t have the DLC. Yes, it was a mistake on 343’s part to not require the DLC from the get-go, but not giving the people who bought the DLC a chance to get their money’s worth will only harm future DLC sales, and thus reduce the budget of future Halo games. In the end, you will only get a crummier franchise because you don’t want to have to buy DLC.

At this point, I don’t know if Halo is really recoverable. 343 should at least offer the DLC at a discount being so far after the initial release so that people might be coaxed into purchasing the map pack(s). Timing this to coincide with the GTA V release was a bad idea. I still think they should find a way to get people to buy the DLC so everyone can enjoy it, but this is probably the wrong way at the wrong time.

10

> And what about those of us who willingly paid for the DLC? Should we never get the opportunity to play the content we put up our hard-earned money for because you don’t want to keep up with the game? Many titles leave you SOL if you want to play online but don’t have the DLC. Yes, it was a mistake on 343’s part to not require the DLC from the get-go, but not giving the people who bought the DLC a chance to get their money’s worth will only harm future DLC sales, and thus reduce the budget of future Halo games. In the end, you will only get a crummier franchise because you don’t want to have to buy DLC.
>
> At this point, I don’t know if Halo is really recoverable. 343 should at least offer the DLC at a discount being so far after the initial release so that people might be coaxed into purchasing the map pack(s). Timing this to coincide with the GTA V release was a bad idea. I still think they should find a way to get people to buy the DLC so everyone can enjoy it, but this is probably the wrong way at the wrong time.

I don’t know if punishing people for not buying DLC is the way to go to increase DLC sales. If anything, I think 343 should go out of their way to reward people that buy the DLC. Maybe giving more exclusives with them, rather than just maps. Maybe more armour (not that I care, but it seems like alot of the newer players care about dressing up their Spartans), or maybe more specializations or something. It personally wouldn’t bother me if they even made it where only a majority of people have to have the new maps for them to show up in voting instead of everybody. I’d rather let some people play it for free off of me, than buy it and never get to use it. But, I don’t see that happening. Ever.

11

> > And what about those of us who willingly paid for the DLC? Should we never get the opportunity to play the content we put up our hard-earned money for because you don’t want to keep up with the game? Many titles leave you SOL if you want to play online but don’t have the DLC. Yes, it was a mistake on 343’s part to not require the DLC from the get-go, but not giving the people who bought the DLC a chance to get their money’s worth will only harm future DLC sales, and thus reduce the budget of future Halo games. In the end, you will only get a crummier franchise because you don’t want to have to buy DLC.
> >
> > At this point, I don’t know if Halo is really recoverable. 343 should at least offer the DLC at a discount being so far after the initial release so that people might be coaxed into purchasing the map pack(s). Timing this to coincide with the GTA V release was a bad idea. I still think they should find a way to get people to buy the DLC so everyone can enjoy it, but this is probably the wrong way at the wrong time.
>
> I don’t know if punishing people for not buying DLC is the way to go to increase DLC sales. If anything, I think 343 should go out of their way to reward people that buy the DLC. Maybe giving more exclusives with them, rather than just maps. Maybe more armour (not that I care, but it seems like alot of the newer players care about dressing up their Spartans), or maybe more specializations or something. It personally wouldn’t bother me if they even made it where only a majority of people have to have the new maps for them to show up in voting instead of everybody. I’d rather let some people play it for free off of me, than buy it and never get to use it. But, I don’t see that happening. Ever.

Bangor, I apologize if I did not make this clear in my OP, but what I was saying is that Infinity Slayer now effectively is a DLC-only Slayer playlist in terms of population. Essentially, it is very similar to having a DLC-themed playlist; changing the name is not changing anything.

For example, suppose X players have no DLC and Y players have DLC.

Option 1: Infinity Slayer (no DLC required) and DLC Slayer
X players will play Infinity Slayer
Y player will play DLC Slayer

Option 2: Infinity Slayer (DLC required)
X players cannot play Infinity Slayer
Y players will play Infinity Slayer

Ergo the Infinity Slayer with DLC will be very similar to a DLC Slayer playlist when a regular Infinity is available. There may be a few people who will be urged to buy DLC, but this will be in the minority. I am copy/pasting this in the OP.

Albino, I agree - give positive things to DLC players but do not take away things from non-DLC players.

12

> Ergo the Infinity Slayer with DLC will be very similar to a DLC Slayer playlist when a regular Infinity is available.

The idea is that taking away the alternative gives you a stick to go along with the carrot. It is forging a new dynamic.

Of course, that doesn’t work too well when every single other play list still doesn’t have that barrier to entry (obviously there are a few that will pay for one play list). I’m not sure that Halo 4 has enough of a population or the leverage of being popular enough to utilize punitive incentives (not being able to play). Of course, I guess you could argue that by guaranteeing that DLC purchasers will be able to play it, you are for the first time creating a real carrot. Still though… if there is noone to play it with then what’s the point?

13

> > > And what about those of us who willingly paid for the DLC? Should we never get the opportunity to play the content we put up our hard-earned money for because you don’t want to keep up with the game? Many titles leave you SOL if you want to play online but don’t have the DLC. Yes, it was a mistake on 343’s part to not require the DLC from the get-go, but not giving the people who bought the DLC a chance to get their money’s worth will only harm future DLC sales, and thus reduce the budget of future Halo games. In the end, you will only get a crummier franchise because you don’t want to have to buy DLC.
> > >
> > > At this point, I don’t know if Halo is really recoverable. 343 should at least offer the DLC at a discount being so far after the initial release so that people might be coaxed into purchasing the map pack(s). Timing this to coincide with the GTA V release was a bad idea. I still think they should find a way to get people to buy the DLC so everyone can enjoy it, but this is probably the wrong way at the wrong time.
> >
> > I don’t know if punishing people for not buying DLC is the way to go to increase DLC sales. If anything, I think 343 should go out of their way to reward people that buy the DLC. Maybe giving more exclusives with them, rather than just maps. Maybe more armour (not that I care, but it seems like alot of the newer players care about dressing up their Spartans), or maybe more specializations or something. It personally wouldn’t bother me if they even made it where only a majority of people have to have the new maps for them to show up in voting instead of everybody. I’d rather let some people play it for free off of me, than buy it and never get to use it. But, I don’t see that happening. Ever.
>
> Bangor, I apologize if I did not make this clear in my OP, but what I was saying is that Infinity Slayer now effectively is a DLC-only Slayer playlist in terms of population. Essentially, it is very similar to having a DLC-themed playlist; changing the name is not changing anything.
>
> For example, suppose X players have no DLC and Y players have DLC.
>
> Option 1: Infinity Slayer (no DLC required) and DLC Slayer
> X players will play Infinity Slayer
> Y player will play DLC Slayer
>
> Option 2: Infinity Slayer (DLC required)
> X players cannot play Infinity Slayer
> Y players will play Infinity Slayer
>
> Ergo the Infinity Slayer with DLC will be very similar to a DLC Slayer playlist when a regular Infinity is available. There may be a few people who will be urged to buy DLC, but this will be in the minority. I am copy/pasting this in the OP.
>
> Albino, I agree - give positive things to DLC players but do not take away things from non-DLC players.

if you read it good on other topic’s about this dlc problem then you see the same suggestion and the same answer.

they is a time that free users also pay a big price for the dlc users.
the dlc users have pay that price from the start all.
for not playing on the dlc maps for a long time.
and if you free users not wane pay for the dlc join big team battle for you slayer game.
the dlc users need 1 slayer dlc play list to play 8 dlc maps on it.
its the same like halo 3 if you wane play slayer game you most pay the price for it.
only this time you most have 1 dlc pack for 1 slayer play list and not all dlc maps to play both slayer play list.

and i know that castle dlc pack also can been play on big team battle but for that you most really ask 343 if they wane do it.

14

> > > > And what about those of us who willingly paid for the DLC? Should we never get the opportunity to play the content we put up our hard-earned money for because you don’t want to keep up with the game? Many titles leave you SOL if you want to play online but don’t have the DLC. Yes, it was a mistake on 343’s part to not require the DLC from the get-go, but not giving the people who bought the DLC a chance to get their money’s worth will only harm future DLC sales, and thus reduce the budget of future Halo games. In the end, you will only get a crummier franchise because you don’t want to have to buy DLC.
> > > >
> > > > At this point, I don’t know if Halo is really recoverable. 343 should at least offer the DLC at a discount being so far after the initial release so that people might be coaxed into purchasing the map pack(s). Timing this to coincide with the GTA V release was a bad idea. I still think they should find a way to get people to buy the DLC so everyone can enjoy it, but this is probably the wrong way at the wrong time.
> > >
> > > I don’t know if punishing people for not buying DLC is the way to go to increase DLC sales. If anything, I think 343 should go out of their way to reward people that buy the DLC. Maybe giving more exclusives with them, rather than just maps. Maybe more armour (not that I care, but it seems like alot of the newer players care about dressing up their Spartans), or maybe more specializations or something. It personally wouldn’t bother me if they even made it where only a majority of people have to have the new maps for them to show up in voting instead of everybody. I’d rather let some people play it for free off of me, than buy it and never get to use it. But, I don’t see that happening. Ever.
> >
> > Bangor, I apologize if I did not make this clear in my OP, but what I was saying is that Infinity Slayer now effectively is a DLC-only Slayer playlist in terms of population. Essentially, it is very similar to having a DLC-themed playlist; changing the name is not changing anything.
> >
> > For example, suppose X players have no DLC and Y players have DLC.
> >
> > Option 1: Infinity Slayer (no DLC required) and DLC Slayer
> > X players will play Infinity Slayer
> > Y player will play DLC Slayer
> >
> > Option 2: Infinity Slayer (DLC required)
> > X players cannot play Infinity Slayer
> > Y players will play Infinity Slayer
> >
> > Ergo the Infinity Slayer with DLC will be very similar to a DLC Slayer playlist when a regular Infinity is available. There may be a few people who will be urged to buy DLC, but this will be in the minority. I am copy/pasting this in the OP.
> >
> > Albino, I agree - give positive things to DLC players but do not take away things from non-DLC players.
>
> if you read it good on other topic’s about this dlc problem then you see the same suggestion and the same answer.
>
> they is a time that free users also pay a big price for the dlc users.
> the dlc users have pay that price from the start all.
> for not playing on the dlc maps for a long time.
> and if you free users not wane pay for the dlc join big team battle for you slayer game.
> the dlc users need 1 slayer dlc play list to play 8 dlc maps on it.
> its the same like halo 3 if you wane play slayer game you most pay the price for it.
> only this time you most have 1 dlc pack for 1 slayer play list and not all dlc maps to play both slayer play list.
>
> and i know that castle dlc pack also can been play on big team battle but for that you most really ask 343 if they wane do it.

I think my point was not clear based on your reply so I will try to lay it out more cleanly. My apologies for being confusing.

  1. Only DLC-owning people will play the new Infinity Slayer.
  2. Only DLC-owning people would play a “DLC Slayer” playlist.
  3. Why not have both? The new Infinity Slayer is effectively the DLC Slayer playlist, and you are just playing with the same people you would play with in that other playlist.

This is assuming that people will not buy DLC. I know I may have, but now won’t because I feel strong-armed into it. I paid for a Halo game that I thought would have basic matchmaking ability.

I am not saying that DLC-owning players should not play DLC maps. You have every right to demand that. But why do it at the expense of non-DLC players who paid for a full game?

For those who say the population cannot be fragmented, guess what - it has. You still have DLC-only people playing the Infinity Slayer playlist, and those who played IS without DLC (the majority apparently) are not playing it. The playlist’s population is under 1000 when it was at like 8000ish during last week/end.

In H3 you could do Social without DLC. You could do a BASIC slayer experience without DLC. You cannot do that in H4 anymore(assuming small team slayer, 4v4 or 5v5, is the basic experience - if now “big team” is the BASIC experience, then I retract my argument).

15

@Nurav:
i understand you point.

but about the non dlc users if they wane play slayer match go to big team battle then.

lets keep it with 15 player list in matchmaking now.
14 play list from the 15 have no required that means free users can choose about 14 play list from the 15.

then give 1 slayer play list to the dlc users for they maps they have pay for it.
be happy that 343 has not make big team battle crimsom dlc required.
(i still hope they do it)

and the option to make dlc play list for the dlc users has Apollo Belenus explain all.

16

> @Nurav:
> i understand you point.
>
> but about the non dlc users if they wane play slayer match go to big team battle then.
>
> lets keep it with 15 player list in matchmaking now.
> 14 play list from the 15 have no required that means free users can choose about 14 play list from the 15.
>
> then give 1 slayer play list to the dlc users for they maps they have pay for it.
> be happy that 343 has not make big team battle crimsom dlc required.
> (i still hope they do it)
>
> and the option to make dlc play list for the dlc users has Apollo Belenus explain all.

My point is that the Infinity Slayer now is the same as a DLC Slayer playlist because both have the same barriers to entry. The fragmentation Apollo is discussing has already happened - those who play IS now are the DLC owning part of the population, and the 5000+ who are no longer there are the non-DLC owning part of the population.

Keep your slayer playlist for DLC. I am fine with, understand, and support that. You paid for it. But why not give a slayer playlist for non-DLC? Other halo games had the ability to play basic slayer without DLC (social in H3 for example - ranked required DLC but social slayer didn’t).

And there is another question with your mention of big team. Is big team now the basic slayer experience? Because that is what it seems like, and I am confused. If Halo multiplayer is now about big team games, then I retract my argument - if big team games are free, then the basic halo is still free and halo has just fundamentally changed without me realizing it.