Please, 343, rebalance March on Stormbreak

That’s not my first post criticizing March on Stormbreak, so sorry if I’m already getting annoying. But I think this map is too unbalanced and 343 needs to make a few adjustments in order to make it more enjoyable.

The problem with March on Stormbreak is that the map is too linear. There are only two routes from the East side to the West side: the Cavern and the Fortress. The Cavern has absolutely no cover, so it’s out of question if you don’t have a vehicle, and even if you do, it’s exit is easily defendable by the enemy. The Fortress is the hardest base in the game to capture from the enemy because it’s very large and enemy Spartans have little incentive not to spawn there, since aside from the minor bosses that spawn here and there, there’s little action happening in the armories – precisely because there are few routes between the armories.

In my experience, if the same team kills Commander Lochagos AND captures the Fortress, it will win almost every time. The only chance the opposing team has to not be completely obliterated is killing Captain Wamik, but the team stationed in the Fortress is much more likely to kill him. For that reason, matches in March on Stormbreak are rarely balanced. It’s much more often that a team will win by large margin in March on Stormbreak than any other map, and these matches aren’t fun at all, specially when you’re in the losing side.

To illustrate my point, I’ll post my recent record in that map.

04/02/2016 - Won 1000 × 259
04/02/2016 - Lost 1000 × 187
04/02/2016 - Won 1000 × 306
03/02/2016 - Lost 1000 × 283
01/02/2016 - Lost 1000 × 444
01/02/2016 - Not finalized
01/02/2016 - Won 1000 × 990
31/01/2016 - Won 1000 × 328
31/01/2016 - Lost 1000 × 263
31/01/2016 - Lost 1000 × 710
31/01/2016 - Lost 1000 × 695
30/01/2016 - Lost 1000 × 447
30/01/2016 - Won 1000 × 906
30/01/2016 - Won 1000 × 650
30/01/2016 - Lost 1000 × 377

Most matches were either won by a landslide or lost by a landslide. Out of 14 matches finalized, in 9 the difference was higher than 500 points, although there were a couple really close matches. Of course I don’t remember specific details on each one of these matches, but I bet that in the ones with tight differences in scores, the team that eliminated Lochagos was not the same team that captured the Fortress. Or that was the rare match where one team actually managed to capture the Fortress from the opposing team in the middle of the game.

As I mentioned before, I’ve created other topic on this matter, but that ended up being more of a topic to discuss which maps the forum members didn’t like. In this topic I’d like to talk specifically about March on Stormbreak and how it could be improved. In the previous topic, though, cb3n made a few great suggestions on how to fix this map. I’m copy-pasting it below, but he is the author, not me:

"This “what is your least favorite” Warzone map is always interesting because players are so divided on what the worst one is. I used to hate Stormbreak, and probably still consider it the worst Warzone map, but it has grown on me some. Of all the maps, it is the easiest one for one team to roll over their competition, especially if that team is blue as they seem to have a slight advantage in terms of getting into the Fortress. On the other hand, it is actually one of the better vehicle maps, and it is definitely the one where good use of Req cards can make the most difference. I no longer think it is horrible, just needs some tweaking.

As you say, it is way too easy for a team to basically lock down the map once they take Fortress. The Fortress itself is very easy to defend due to its size and lack of entrances easily available to the attacking team (3 entrances with no easy way to loop around to the back). The Frozen Cave is incredibly easy to plug up due to the lack of cover on the route (best strat I’ve seen for that is comboing a Scorpion at the defending end of the tunnel backed up with a competent sniper behind to pick off boarders, very hard for attackers to dislodge without their own heavy weapons). The platform on the other side of the Fortress gives the defending team a decent vantage for sniping off approaching attackers too, so ultimately, whoever holds the Fortress can pretty much dominate 2/3rds of the map, preventing their opponents from getting a shot at the majority of bosses while racking up base points.

I believe the solution here is a 3rd route, with the easiest to implement option being the addition of a mancannon route going both ways along the Cargo Dock side. This would force whoever is holding the Fortress to commit resources to the Cargo Dock itself or give up the advantage of using the platform between that point and their base to harass approaching Spartans. Simultaneously, attacking Spartans would have the option of mancannoning to the Cargo Dock and getting another approach into the Fortress or continuing along to make a play for the opposing Armory. Supplemented by the possible addition of two more cover points in the Frozen Cave route (midway between the current cover on the catwalk and each entrance to the cave, probably on the side of the platform where Eternal spawns) I think this would go a long way towards balancing Stormbreak."

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/90a6869bcf944c54a17102ac9e31da1a/topics/i--yoink-ing-hate-march-on-stormbreak/c4a963cb-37b0-439e-bc50-cb55a5913485/posts?page=2#post35

Uh, the map is completely symmetrical with evenly dispersed bosses. The only thing that I would consider needing a change is the Lochagos reward lowered, but really that’s never bothered me much. There are sooo many bosses on stormbreak that it’s really not that hard to catch up if you miss the first boss kill.

I do not know what players you are playing against but in my experience on stormbreak almost always the team who does not own fortress will swoop around the cavern and capture the enemies armory making it 2 armories vs fortress. This happens in probably 95% of my games on Stormbreak. Doing this allows for the team with two armories to attack from two different directions as well as forcing the enemy team to push an armory leaving the fortress without a lot of defense.

Sure, Stormbreak is probably the least balanced warzone map and hardest to recover from losing early game on. But my response to that is to simply not lose early game :slight_smile: do not lose lochagos and be the team to capture fortress first and it should be pretty smooth sailing from there. I can’t complain about losing the fortress or not killing lochagos simply because it is my, and my teams fault, not the maps. If My team does not capture fortress first, we got outplayed. If we can not capture fortress for the rest of the game then my team is simply the worse team. It is part of the game and I don’t blame it on the map.

Having said that Like i said earlier, Stormbreak is the least balanced warzone map but I do not think it is unbalanced to the point of needing adjustments. If I am winning nearly 50% of my matches on stormbreak it seems like a pretty balanced map to me, you lose some and you win some.

> 2533274886531207;2:
> Uh, the map is completely symmetrical with evenly dispersed bosses. The only thing that I would consider needing a change is the Lochagos reward lowered, but really that’s never bothered me much. There are sooo many bosses on stormbreak that it’s really not that hard to catch up if you miss the first boss kill.

I agree on the Lochagos part. If a team gets him and then the banshee captain, it’s game over. And it’s only like 8 or so minutes in. I don’t remember.

Point is, a lot of games on Stormbreak are over way before the game ends.

> 2533274804212283;3:
> I do not know what players you are playing against but in my experience on stormbreak almost always the team who does not own fortress will swoop around the cavern and capture the enemies armory making it 2 armories vs fortress. This happens in probably 95% of my games on Stormbreak. Doing this allows for the team with two armories to attack from two different directions as well as forcing the enemy team to push an armory leaving the fortress without a lot of defense.
>
> Sure, Stormbreak is probably the least balanced warzone map and hardest to recover from losing early game on. But my response to that is to simply not lose early game :slight_smile: do not lose lochagos and be the team to capture fortress first and it should be pretty smooth sailing from there. I can’t complain about losing the fortress or not killing lochagos simply because it is my, and my teams fault, not the maps. If My team does not capture fortress first, we got outplayed. If we can not capture fortress for the rest of the game then my team is simply the worse team. It is part of the game and I don’t blame it on the map.
>
> Having said that Like i said earlier, Stormbreak is the least balanced warzone map but I do not think it is unbalanced to the point of needing adjustments. If I am winning nearly 50% of my matches on stormbreak it seems like a pretty balanced map to me, you lose some and you win some.

In my games in Stormbreak, it’s more frequent that the team that controls the Fortress will capture the remaining base and try to destroy the enemy’s core than the enemy being able to capture the other armory, but that’s my experience. You said that you’re winning nearly 50% of the matches in this map. Well, I suppose that’s logic that on average, every player will win about 50% and lose about 50% on any map. But I’ve been really, really unlucky in this map. Overall, my Warzone record is 51% win (117 victories, 112 losses), but in March on Stormbreak I’m 39% (18 wins, 28 losses). Maybe my opinion on this map is biased because statistics is trying to -yoink- me everytime I play it and I’m always stuck with noobs that think that ten spartans are needed to capture the armory and no one cares about the Fortress, even with me yelling at the mic that if we neglect the Fortress and Lochagos, the game will be basically over within two minutes.

I can see that you agree with me that in this map it’s really difficult to recover if your team messes up early on. Well, that’s my main issue with this map. It’s quite possible to practically determine the final outcome of the game within the first two minutes and then the match will drag for ten to fifteen useless minutes more. That’s not fun at all, specially when you’re in the receiving end.

> 2533274812650916;4:
> > 2533274886531207;2:
> > Uh, the map is completely symmetrical with evenly dispersed bosses. The only thing that I would consider needing a change is the Lochagos reward lowered, but really that’s never bothered me much. There are sooo many bosses on stormbreak that it’s really not that hard to catch up if you miss the first boss kill.
>
>
> I agree on the Lochagos part. If a team gets him and then the banshee captain, it’s game over. And it’s only like 8 or so minutes in. I don’t remember.
>
> Point is, a lot of games on Stormbreak are over way before the game ends.

Yes, that’s entirely true. Matches in Stormbreak can be resolved way too early, but the game will still drag for a long, unbearable, time until it really ends.

> 2533274938827434;5:
> > 2533274804212283;3:
> > I do not know what players you are playing against but in my experience on stormbreak almost always the team who does not own fortress will swoop around the cavern and capture the enemies armory making it 2 armories vs fortress. This happens in probably 95% of my games on Stormbreak. Doing this allows for the team with two armories to attack from two different directions as well as forcing the enemy team to push an armory leaving the fortress without a lot of defense.
> >
> > Sure, Stormbreak is probably the least balanced warzone map and hardest to recover from losing early game on. But my response to that is to simply not lose early game :slight_smile: do not lose lochagos and be the team to capture fortress first and it should be pretty smooth sailing from there. I can’t complain about losing the fortress or not killing lochagos simply because it is my, and my teams fault, not the maps. If My team does not capture fortress first, we got outplayed. If we can not capture fortress for the rest of the game then my team is simply the worse team. It is part of the game and I don’t blame it on the map.
> >
> > Having said that Like i said earlier, Stormbreak is the least balanced warzone map but I do not think it is unbalanced to the point of needing adjustments. If I am winning nearly 50% of my matches on stormbreak it seems like a pretty balanced map to me, you lose some and you win some.
>
>
> In my games in Stormbreak, it’s more frequent that the team that controls the Fortress will capture the remaining base and try to destroy the enemy’s core than the enemy being able to capture the other armory, but that’s my experience. You said that you’re winning nearly 50% of the matches in this map. Well, I suppose that’s logic that on average, every player will win about 50% and lose about 50% on any map. But I’ve been really, really unlucky in this map. Overall, my Warzone record is 51% win (117 victories, 112 losses), but in March on Stormbreak I’m 39% (18 wins, 28 losses). Maybe my opinion on this map is biased because statistics is trying to -yoink- me everytime I play it and I’m always stuck with noobs that think that ten spartans are needed to capture the armory and no one cares about the Fortress, even with me yelling at the mic that if we neglect the Fortress and Lochagos, the game will be basically over within two minutes.
>
> I can see that you agree with me that in this map it’s really difficult to recover if your team messes up early on. Well, that’s my main issue with this map. It’s quite possible to practically determine the final outcome of the game within the first two minutes and then the match will drag for ten to fifteen useless minutes more. That’s not fun at all, specially when you’re in the receiving and.

So having looked at my stormbreak stats it appears that i have a 64% win rate on it (I think i did the math correct lol) I also have the most kills on stormbreak compared to any other map. I don’t know why our experiences on stormbreak seem to be so different from eachother, but like i said, in my games 95% of the time the team the does no capture fortress has captured the other armory within the first 4 minutes. Which seems to balance out the game for a little. I have had games on stormbreak where my team has been at our own core within 4 minutes, but came back and won the whole game via pushing their core. I have also had games where our core is destroyed within 5 minutes. I don’t know why you seem to have a much different Stormbreak experience than i do.

I have to agree with OP here… The Lochagos + Fortress combo is usually an OHK towards the opposing team. That’s the problem. There’s no way to recover if you lose both. Compare and contrast with Raid on Apex 7 where the Spire is difficult to defend, has easy to find blind spots and is easy to retake, capture or lose. You can win with one armory alone since they are out of the Spire’s range and the caves provide epic turnarounds for avoiding enemy fire. I agree that what March on Stormbreak needs is a route between both armories that is indefensible from the Fortress so that it remains no man’s land at all times.

I like the map but agreed its pretty unbalanced pretty much whoever kills commander luchador first generally caps the fortress as well and then its easy to defend your armory and get the next legendary kill too because your team is right there already

My lowest win percentage for any type of warzone or assault is on stormbreak (83% wins). Truthfully, the only thing I’d like to see is a route allowing you to climb over the fortress and not be in a kill zone. Would add another fun element to the map.

> 2533274876621459;10:
> My lowest win percentage for any type of warzone or assault is on stormbreak (83% wins). Truthfully, the only thing I’d like to see is a route allowing you to climb over the fortress and not be in a kill zone. Would add another fun element to the map.

Did you mean 38% or are you THAT good? :stuck_out_tongue:
But that’s a great idea, it would be much better if we could climb over the Fortress.

> 2533274938827434;11:
> > 2533274876621459;10:
> > My lowest win percentage for any type of warzone or assault is on stormbreak (83% wins). Truthfully, the only thing I’d like to see is a route allowing you to climb over the fortress and not be in a kill zone. Would add another fun element to the map.
>
>
> Did you mean 38% or are you THAT good? :stuck_out_tongue:
> But that’s a great idea, it would be much better if we could climb over the Fortress.

83%, welcome to the beauty of coordinated 12 man teams

> 2533274886531207;2:
> Uh, the map is completely symmetrical with evenly dispersed bosses. The only thing that I would consider needing a change is the Lochagos reward lowered, but really that’s never bothered me much. There are sooo many bosses on stormbreak that it’s really not that hard to catch up if you miss the first boss kill.

> 2533274804212283;3:
> I do not know what players you are playing against but in my experience on stormbreak almost always the team who does not own fortress will swoop around the cavern and capture the enemies armory making it 2 armories vs fortress. This happens in probably 95% of my games on Stormbreak. Doing this allows for the team with two armories to attack from two different directions as well as forcing the enemy team to push an armory leaving the fortress without a lot of defense.

These right here are exactly why it is balanced. If one team gets Lochagos & Fortress, the other team usually gets the other armory. And though the fortress team has an easier time getting Wannik, if all their resources are being used to hold the fortress, the other team can get the bosses spawning at both armories. That’s 50 or 100 points each spawn, in addition to holding 2 bases. That more than makes up for Lochagos & Wannik.

That being said, Stormbreak is still my least favorite WZ map. But even if you lose Lochagos and the fortress, you can still win if you play it right.

First boss kill + capture of the fortress is 95% likely winning the map.

> 2533274794373199;14:
> First boss kill + capture of the fortress is 95% likely winning the map.

not with that attitude :slight_smile: this isn’t over yet, we can still destroy the enemy core!

> 2533274938827434;5:
> > 2533274804212283;3:
> > I do not know what players you are playing against but in my experience on stormbreak almost always the team who does not own fortress will swoop around the cavern and capture the enemies armory making it 2 armories vs fortress. This happens in probably 95% of my games on Stormbreak. Doing this allows for the team with two armories to attack from two different directions as well as forcing the enemy team to push an armory leaving the fortress without a lot of defense.
> >
> > Sure, Stormbreak is probably the least balanced warzone map and hardest to recover from losing early game on. But my response to that is to simply not lose early game :slight_smile: do not lose lochagos and be the team to capture fortress first and it should be pretty smooth sailing from there. I can’t complain about losing the fortress or not killing lochagos simply because it is my, and my teams fault, not the maps. If My team does not capture fortress first, we got outplayed. If we can not capture fortress for the rest of the game then my team is simply the worse team. It is part of the game and I don’t blame it on the map.
> >
> > Having said that Like i said earlier, Stormbreak is the least balanced warzone map but I do not think it is unbalanced to the point of needing adjustments. If I am winning nearly 50% of my matches on stormbreak it seems like a pretty balanced map to me, you lose some and you win some.
>
>
> In my games in Stormbreak, it’s more frequent that the team that controls the Fortress will capture the remaining base and try to destroy the enemy’s core than the enemy being able to capture the other armory, but that’s my experience. You said that you’re winning nearly 50% of the matches in this map. Well, I suppose that’s logic that on average, every player will win about 50% and lose about 50% on any map. But I’ve been really, really unlucky in this map. Overall, my Warzone record is 51% win (117 victories, 112 losses), but in March on Stormbreak I’m 39% (18 wins, 28 losses). Maybe my opinion on this map is biased because statistics is trying to -yoink- me everytime I play it and I’m always stuck with noobs that think that ten spartans are needed to capture the armory and no one cares about the Fortress, even with me yelling at the mic that if we neglect the Fortress and Lochagos, the game will be basically over within two minutes.
>
> I can see that you agree with me that in this map it’s really difficult to recover if your team messes up early on. Well, that’s my main issue with this map. It’s quite possible to practically determine the final outcome of the game within the first two minutes and then the match will drag for ten to fifteen useless minutes more. That’s not fun at all, specially when you’re in the receiving end.

That is exactly my experience. We try to kill Lochagos and then -Yoink- to backcap their armory. Don’t even try for the fortress.

The problem with the map to me is Lochagos, it’s a complete gamble who gets him. This is what I always bump into:
Other team kills Lochagos.
2-3 people on my team quit
We lose the fortress on sheer numbers.
Anyone who joins sees it’s 200-50 and we’re down a base will quit or just not care and stay in for the req points
Other team is at level 5-6 reqs before we hit 4. So we’re getting hit by DMR’s, Scorpions and Snipers before we have a truly effective counter.

On top of that, I’ve bumped into a new phenomenon where whoever holds the fortress just spams plasma pistols at Wamik. For some reason this causes him to fall through the map. You hear Palmer saying we have to get him, but he’s simply out of the map. This lets fortress team build on their lead, and leaves the last 150 point boss till the very end, usually too late to make a difference.

Yes there are a ton of little bosses, but they’re spread roughly evenly or at the fortress, making scoring those little points roughly even.

My solution would be to replace lochagos with a pair of hunters or knights, and have Lochagos spawn later at the back where the Warden spawns. And also fix the plasma pistol glitch on Wamik.

That’s just a problem with Warzone in general. Putting such a big emphasis on the legendary bosses makes it hard to have close games. If they moved the legendary bosses to 100 (from 150) and the normal bosses to 50 (from 25) it would really balance it out, I think.

Seriously. Too much snow for March on Stormbreak.

Rename it February on Stormbreak.

> 2533274802029738;19:
> Seriously. Too much snow for March on Stormbreak.
>
> Rename it February on Stormbreak.

Get out

OP: I agree it seems like the least balanced map.