Please 343, Keep it simple.

Community General Discussion
1

Halo reach forge is phenominal. It is a huge step up from 1.0, and Forge world is a huge step up from sandbox and foundry. The only issue i have is that forge world is Soooooo huge and detailed, that it limits your forging ability. i also believe the forge objects are a bit to detailed also. Please 343, just give us a small unique forge space, similar to the look of forgeworld, just smaller, and alot flatter. its no fun forging on a bunch of hills and rocks, when i just want flat grass… Just keep the new forge area and forge pieces less detailed, and simple. Alot of people like to forge their own structures and buildings and whatnot, but its not easy with forge 2.0 because you get insane framerate lag. Also please fix object overlap lag, because you get framerate issues just by overlapping a few blocks… Dont go overboard and make a forge galaxy… most people i know would much rather have a map around the size of Blood Gulch, or valhalla, just with new dynamic shapes and rocky outcrops. Sure, i ginormous halo galaxy with 5000 budget would be kinda cool, but i would love to have a flat canvas and build a massive structure with over 25,000 budget. That would be alot cooler.

I have high hopes for Forge in halo 4, but if 343 wants to appeases the masses, then simple objects and maps are the way to go. But at the same time, you need to appease the advanced veteran forgers with useful tools, and a whole new coordinate/rotation system. Just imagine, matchmaking could be updated, with a seemingly endless variety of forge maps. On a final note, please for the love of god give us a larger pallette of objects to choose from. Atleast double or triple the amount of objects from forge 2.0, so all the maps dont look the same. Variety is the way to go, you’d be surprised. 343 needs to save forge. Forge is the heart of halo now, and if 343 wants an awesome game, then they need an awesome forge. i wish 343 the best of luck, but they definitley need to listen to the community. The community is what makes Halo.

2

I fully agree with the OP.

I don’t want Forge to turn into something as complicated and bloated as GalaxyEdit just because 343 caves to the whims of a bunch of people screaming out half-baked ideas without thinking.

3

I disagree, I want halo 4 forge to be more massive than halo reach forge. What I mean is that players will be able to forge landscape, weather, more buildings and possibly ai.

4

> I disagree, I want halo 4 forge to be more massive than halo reach forge. What I mean is that players will be able to forge landscape, weather, more buildings and possibly ai.

Go buy a copy of StarCraft II, and try using GalaxyEdit. It can do all of that. However, I guarantee you that you will be frustrated at how insanely difficult it is to use.

Now, how is that relevant? Simple.

GalaxyEdit is insanely difficult to use because it can do all of that. The more unnecessary features you tack on to a map editor, the more cumbersome and difficult it becomes. Forge is useful because it’s simple. Easy to learn, hard to master. No technical hurdles or complexity to hinder your creativity; if you’re a good designer, you’re automatically a good Forger. This is what has allowed Forge, and by extension, Halo, to thrive.

Halo does not need a GalaxyEdit. It needs a Forge. Simple but capable – not powerful but bloated.

5

it should be from the start you chose the map size
map size:
hight and width

the terrain type:
grass, snow, desert,ect

time of day:
day, night, ect

the skybox:
cloudy, really cloudy, clear, ect

then your put into the map where you can add where you can add objects and all that other stuff

add hills by a hills tool where you hold A to raise hill and X to lower hill

and water by a water tool where you hold A to add water and X to remove

well thats my idea

6

I half agree OP.

When I Forge I like to create unique environments for my maps, ones which other people have never seen before and couldn’t conceive on their own.
In the ideal world - look at the FarCry 2 map editor, terraforming is what shapes it,you can totally individualise anywhere you want with a tool like that.

What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two, a tool in which we can form our own landscape, before going into Forge mode and constructing buildings and combat arenas with the well worn and useful forge objects.

It would mean you could make totally flat ground if you wanted, for a small 4 v 4 map in different environments - but you could also make a huge invasion map of epic proportions, with stunning ascetics and scenery, lovingly crafted by the map editor - it would mean that forge would be whatever you wanted to make of it.

Hell, throw in placeable AI, give people a ‘mission maker’ but it would only be as good as whoever was wielding it, as is the case with all things.

I just want the next generation of Forge to be both complex and simple, depending on whoever’s hands it is placed in - I don’t want it to be cut down for simplicities sake, when it has the potential to be used as almost a full devkit, like SC2’s galaxy editor, which when given time and attention can product some truly awesome stuff.

-K-

7

> it should be from the start you chose the map size
> map size:
> hight and width
>
> the terrain type:
> grass, snow, desert,ect
>
> time of day:
> day, night, ect
>
> the skybox:
> cloudy, really cloudy, clear, ect
>
> then your put into the map where you can add where you can add objects and all that other stuff
>
> add hills by a hills tool where you hold A to raise hill and X to lower hill
>
> and water by a water tool where you hold A to add water and X to remove
>
> well thats my idea

Yes.

Oh, and add ‘themes’, too.

Theme: Covenant, Human, Forerunner, Flood, and whatever else they introduce.

8

@POCKETS117

I highly agree with you, this is what we need. Similar to Farcry 2 but much more simplar. I really liked Farcry 2’s map editor and it’s a shame Far Cry 2’s multiplayer was a load of tosh, but if they can make a similar map editor for Halo 4, I would no doubt spend a lot of time on it :slight_smile:

As Gandalf might say “IS IT SIMPLE?! IS IT SAFE?!”

9

> I fully agree with the OP.
>
> I don’t want Forge to turn into something as complicated and bloated as GalaxyEdit just because 343 caves to the whims of a bunch of people screaming out half-baked ideas without thinking.

Exactly agreed 101%

10

> I half agree OP.
> Hell, throw in placeable AI, give people a ‘mission maker’ but it would only be as good as whoever was wielding it, as is the case with all things.
> -K-

Now that’s where the rediculousness comes in.

11

> > I disagree, I want halo 4 forge to be more massive than halo reach forge. What I mean is that players will be able to forge landscape, weather, more buildings and possibly ai.
>
> Go buy a copy of StarCraft II, and try using GalaxyEdit. It can do all of that. However, I guarantee you that you will be frustrated at how insanely difficult it is to use.
>
> Now, how is that relevant? Simple.
>
> GalaxyEdit is insanely difficult to use because it can do all of that. The more unnecessary features you tack on to a map editor, the more cumbersome and difficult it becomes. Forge is useful because it’s simple. Easy to learn, hard to master. No technical hurdles or complexity to hinder your creativity; if you’re a good designer, you’re automatically a good Forger. This is what has allowed Forge, and by extension, Halo, to thrive.
>
> Halo does not need a GalaxyEdit. It needs a Forge. Simple but capable – not powerful but bloated.

instead of this “Galaxyedit” how about you try the Far Cry 2 map editor? i definently enjoyed it, plus its probobly alot cheaper than starcraft

12

> I half agree OP.
>
> When I Forge I like to create unique environments for my maps, ones which other people have never seen before and couldn’t conceive on their own.
> In the ideal world - look at the FarCry 2 map editor, terraforming is what shapes it,you can totally individualise anywhere you want with a tool like that.
>
> What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two, a tool in which we can form our own landscape, before going into Forge mode and constructing buildings and combat arenas with the well worn and useful forge objects.
>
> It would mean you could make totally flat ground if you wanted, for a small 4 v 4 map in different environments - but you could also make a huge invasion map of epic proportions, with stunning ascetics and scenery, lovingly crafted by the map editor - it would mean that forge would be whatever you wanted to make of it.
>
> Hell, throw in placeable AI, give people a ‘mission maker’ but it would only be as good as whoever was wielding it, as is the case with all things.
>
> I just want the next generation of Forge to be both complex and simple, depending on whoever’s hands it is placed in - I don’t want it to be cut down for simplicities sake, when it has the potential to be used as almost a full devkit, like SC2’s galaxy editor, which when given time and attention can product some truly awesome stuff.
>
> -K-

I like where you are going with that, minus the AI - that would make it far too complex. Bungie had extreme difficulty making AI work on Forged maps for Reach, so they yoinked that feature from the real game (Hell, Bungie has extreme difficulty making AI work anywhere). I don’t think 343i will be any better in that category.

But I like the idea of TWO DIFFERENT map editors - maybe you could shape a map using a landscaper map editor, save it, then go into Forge and put objects on it exactly like in Reach, only with skins and hopefully more objects. The Scaper would be able to raise/lower hills, change terrain, create terrain, create water, etc. The Forge would put down objects onto it.

I like this because it’s simple. If you had two different editors, the controls would never get too complex, and mapmaking would still be something anyone could do, because using the Scaper isn’t required, and neither is using the Forge. But to make a truly great map, you’d have to make use of both.

13

> it should be from the start you chose the map size
> map size:
> hight and width
>
> the terrain type:
> grass, snow, desert,ect
>
> time of day:
> day, night, ect
>
> the skybox:
> cloudy, really cloudy, clear, ect
>
> then your put into the map where you can add where you can add objects and all that other stuff
>
> add hills by a hills tool where you hold A to raise hill and X to lower hill
>
> and water by a water tool where you hold A to add water and X to remove
>
> well thats my idea

Exactly what I was thinking, I also put this idea in the feedback section, so hopefully 343 sees it!

14

> instead of this “Galaxyedit” how about you try the Far Cry 2 map editor? i definently enjoyed it, plus its probobly alot cheaper than starcraft

Thank you for completely, totally, and entirely missing my point.

I was using GalaxyEdit as an example to demonstrate how too much added trash makes a map editor hard to use. Far Cry 2 is another good example of the fact. It’s a powerful editor, sure, but like GE it’s also a bloated pile of trash. Damn near everything is buried under submenu after submenu – you spend more time trying to switch between tools than it takes to actually use them.

Adding colossal features to a map editor is guaranteed to make that editor extremely tedious and complicated to use. It’s a bad enough problem for PC games; it’s even worse on console games, where we only get ten or so controller buttons to work with. There’s only so much a game dev can do with ten buttons before they start having to complicate things.

Now, if someone comes up with a comprehensive and detailed way to add all the colossal features that people suggest while keeping Forge’s controls and GUI easy-to-use, then I’ll definitely support those ideas. But right now, Forge’s biggest but only strength is its user-friendliness, and sacrificing that usability in an attempt to imitate other games is a spectacularly horrible idea.

15

> > I half agree OP.
> >
> > When I Forge I like to create unique environments for my maps, ones which other people have never seen before and couldn’t conceive on their own.
> > In the ideal world - look at the FarCry 2 map editor, terraforming is what shapes it,you can totally individualise anywhere you want with a tool like that.
> >
> > What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two, a tool in which we can form our own landscape, before going into Forge mode and constructing buildings and combat arenas with the well worn and useful forge objects . . .
>
> . . . I like the idea of TWO DIFFERENT map editors - maybe you could shape a map using a landscaper map editor, save it, then go into Forge and put objects on it exactly like in Reach, only with skins and hopefully more objects. The Scaper would be able to raise/lower hills, change terrain, create terrain, create water, etc. The Forge would put down objects onto it.
>
> I like this because it’s simple. If you had two different editors, the controls would never get too complex, and mapmaking would still be something anyone could do, because using the Scaper isn’t required, and neither is using the Forge. But to make a truly great map, you’d have to make use of both.

This may be one of the best ideas I’ve seen on these forums. It’s not just a “what”, it’s also a “how”.

Give us terrain editing… by packaging it as a separate editor. Keeps Forge easy-to-use, while still giving us flexibility and power. Brilliant.

16

> it should be from the start you chose the map size
> map size:
> hight and width
>
> the terrain type:
> grass, snow, desert,ect
>
> time of day:
> day, night, ect
>
> the skybox:
> cloudy, really cloudy, clear, ect
>
> then your put into the map where you can add where you can add objects and all that other stuff
>
> add hills by a hills tool where you hold A to raise hill and X to lower hill
>
> and water by a water tool where you hold A to add water and X to remove
>
> well thats my idea

yes that sounds great also i want a bigger variety of buildings like wooden and brick

17

Noooo!!! Keep Forge, and also add a Map Editor. The Forgers can stay in Forge, and I can have fun actually making real maps, rather than piles of blocks.