I would just like to say that having certain community members influence matchmaking decisions may be a questionable choice but there is a reason it may work.
Firstly, there should be a group of 4-5 people who have varied skills and have a good understanding of the entire game. There are people out there that know what makes a good Infection game making it both balanced and fun, as well as knowing what makes a balanced competitive Objective game. These are the kind of people that this position would be open to and these people would be hand picked by 343 themselves much like the cartographers. Since it is so similar to the cartographers why not apply it in some part to the playlist management. One team solely for community map implementation and another smaller team to help influence matchmaking changes.
However the reason that this may work is the fact that the people who understand the game tend to also be the ones who have more knowledge, experience, and overall skill as well as playing the game very frequently. Some things implemented in Reach cannot be reasonably explained; things like Evade and Jetpack in the Arena are clearly out of place let alone some of the other things that go around in matchmaking. 343 clearly shows that they are dedicated to making Halo 4 great so they don’t have the time to work on Reach so it is not unreasonable for some help managing the playlists.
Back at Bungie there was transparency when it came to updates to matchmaking. In the Optimatch forum Jeremiah regularly posted in quality threads so we knew that at least he saw what was going on which usually translated into effective updates. However things like the Drop Shield taking months to be removed from matchmaking due to the insane abuse it brought was unreasonable given that it took 1 or 2 games of Team Objective to see it.
Evade was abused to a lesser extent by being more effective than all the other starting AAs; evade was better than sprint in every way possible and functioned much like AL when it came to the survivability of explosions as well as also being very effective at getting out of QCQ which further crippled all other AAs. Evade was made for Elites and built for their sizes and movement speed. When you apply it to Spartans it gives them the same movement path and animation but for a smaller and slower player model which essentially makes them accelerate very rapidly and harder to hit. Simply put Evade was never intended for Spartans and was transferred over from the Elites and never balanced it to the rest of the game making it overpowered. Something like this is clearly evident in a few matches of Reach yet it took over a year for it to be fixed.
All I am saying is that there are people out there that understand the game greatly who have experience and skill in all play styles which could be used as assets to the matchmaking systems team. Some things are easy to be looked over or missed that would have otherwise been seen by avid, passionate, experienced, knowledgeable players.
What kind of power would you expect such a person to have? For them to say ‘do this, x isn’t working’ and for 343i to do it? 343i are supposed to be the professionals of course, and I don’t dismiss the notion of having extra tendrils to gather feedback from the crushing din of the various community forums, but I just don’t really see community member getting to directly influence anything.
> What kind of power would you expect such a person to have? For them to say ‘do this, x isn’t working’ and for 343i to do it? 343i are supposed to be the professionals of course, and I don’t dismiss the notion of having extra tendrils to gather feedback from the crushing din of the various community forums, but I just don’t really see community member getting to directly influence anything.
You seem to be getting the meaning of influence mixed up with dictate. By no means would they dictate what should be done but simply bring things to the direct attention to 343 and analyze what should be done to remedy it.
Hasn’t it already been shown that forums can be an effective method of doing this? I mean heck, Overkill, you basically got the original Team Classic implemented by yourself. What we need is an effective Matchmaking manager who actually gives some indication that the forums are being used in a focus group manner. Someone who has the authority to take the lead on creating playlists and changes. Someone who can actually make the hard decisions that need to be made, rather than waffling back and forth. 343 does not have this right now.
This entire playlist management issue is brought up by the poor decisions in the March playlist update. Say what you will about the update but there is no dismissing the fact that it makes a mess of things.
Removal of Squad and a replica of Team Slayer with TU is the wrong direction to take. To make things even worse once bleed through is removed there is practically no difference between Vanilla and TU so what warrants 2 duplicate playlists?
Even something as small as the naming of the duplicate slayer playlist as Super Slayer is a poor choice. At this point it makes more sense to name it TU Slayer and rename the other as Vanilla since people are already confused enough by everything going on.
> Said it before and I’ll say it again: I think Shishka would be a great MM Overlord. He already has experience with the role.
We’re talking about elected community members that can influence 343. Shiska would just be the person behind 343 in this case. There were many things that Shiska did wrong in Halo 3 so still leaving the developer’s team in charge of management will solve nothing since it would be no different than it is now. Granted the varying gameplay in Reach is what makes management a mess, Halo 4 may end up better.
> > > We did not need another thread on this.
> >
> > Thanks for the contribution…
>
> You just want someone from the tryhard TU loving side of the fence to call the shots over matchmaking. Its not going to happen.
>
> Had TU outright won that vote, you wouldnt have even made this thread.
I don’t know who you are and what you are basing your assumptions on but this thread could not have been taken from a more neutral stance.
There is a lot of redundancy in playlists when they decide not to consolidate certain playlists especially now that bleed through is being removed there is no reason to keep vanilla.
Someone who knows what they’re doing understands what makes the game balanced and fun be it Invasion and Infection or Arena and Team Objective. I simply ask that 343 find these people and put them in a group like the cartographers so that they have more direct feedback.
Your bashing is entirely unwarranted and uncalled for.
> You seem to be getting the meaning of influence mixed up with dictate. By no means would they dictate what should be done but simply bring things to the direct attention to 343 and analyze what should be done to remedy it.
Ok, I’m still not sure what level of influence they could have that matters above perusing the forums every once in a while, but wouldn’t end up being ‘343i do this!’
Can you set up an example scenario in which this ‘community gametype-feedback-person’ would be useful?
The idea sounds good in theory. To be honest though the communities members reputable enough on these forums to get that status I largely disagree with on almost everything.
I would want someone who desires the most competitive version of Halo possible and I dont think many other posters here want that. SO instead the people voted to this position would be the ones asking for things like bleed through to be removed which is a travesty.
Just like if the tables were turned and the majority here were MLGers the casuals wouldnt want the MLG community leaders determining their Halo experience.
> Can you set up an example scenario in which this ‘community gametype-feedback-person’ would be useful?
These individuals are play Reach very frequently and thus see everything that may be plaguing the game. They can have direct contact with a 343 member who is in charge of playlist management and would provide them a write up. They would outline the problem, explain why it is a problem, suggest a solution and perhaps also provide the urgency of the problem.
For example: Drop Shield ruins engagement distances by enabling a quickly regenerating portable shield. In capture the flag, a team would abuse this AA to make it impossible to remove the flag from the base by huddling up around the flag and dropping multiple shields. There is no way to engage the players outside of CQC since even a rocket, which would destroy the shield, simply destroys the outer most one and will be replaced in seconds. Engaging the players inside the shields in QCQ ends in failure since they can see you approaching and can team pummel anyone who enters. The only solution is to remove it from the loadouts.
> The idea sounds good in theory. To be honest though the communities members reputable enough on these forums to get that status I largely disagree with on almost everything.
>
> I would want someone who desires the most competitive version of Halo possible and I dont think many other posters here want that. SO instead the people voted to this position would be the ones asking for things like bleed through to be removed which is a travesty.
>
> Just like if the tables were turned and the majority here were MLGers the casuals wouldnt want the MLG community leaders determining their Halo experience.
If the absolute most knowledgeable, experienced and skilled players were to be part or this group then that would never happen.
Also I would like to know why you feel that bleed through is the only way to have competitive gameplay. The DMR and such is still 5 shots to kill in bleed through settings so the only thing that can reasonably be supported is its effect on double melee to which I must say 75% melee accomplishes the same without bleed through.
> > > > We did not need another thread on this.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the contribution…
> >
> > You just want someone from the tryhard TU loving side of the fence to call the shots over matchmaking. Its not going to happen.
> >
> > Had TU outright won that vote, you wouldnt have even made this thread.
>
> I don’t know who you are and what you are basing your assumptions on but this thread could not have been taken from a more neutral stance.
>
> There is a lot of redundancy in playlists when they decide not to consolidate certain playlists especially now that bleed through is being removed there is no reason to keep vanilla.
>
> Someone who knows what they’re doing understands what makes the game balanced and fun be it Invasion and Infection or Arena and Team Objective. I simply ask that 343 find these people and put them in a group like the cartographers so that they have more direct feedback.
>
> Your bashing is entirely unwarranted and uncalled for.
I like pure vanilla Reach even more than Diet TU. So there is plenty of reason to keep it around forever.
Oh and your proposal has changed from some sort of MM dictator to a committee has it? lol.
The community as it is and how 343i watches and interacts with us is a functional enough advisory committee as it is, as weve seen with the march update.
> > > > > We did not need another thread on this.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the contribution…
> > >
> > > You just want someone from the tryhard TU loving side of the fence to call the shots over matchmaking. Its not going to happen.
> > >
> > > Had TU outright won that vote, you wouldnt have even made this thread.
> >
> > I don’t know who you are and what you are basing your assumptions on but this thread could not have been taken from a more neutral stance.
> >
> > There is a lot of redundancy in playlists when they decide not to consolidate certain playlists especially now that bleed through is being removed there is no reason to keep vanilla.
> >
> > Someone who knows what they’re doing understands what makes the game balanced and fun be it Invasion and Infection or Arena and Team Objective. I simply ask that 343 find these people and put them in a group like the cartographers so that they have more direct feedback.
> >
> > Your bashing is entirely unwarranted and uncalled for.
>
> I like pure vanilla Reach even more than Diet TU. So there is plenty of reason to keep it around forever.
>
> Oh and your proposal has changed from some sort of MM dictator to a committee has it? lol.
>
> The community as it is and how 343i watches and interacts with us is a functional enough advisory committee as it is, as weve seen with the march update.
You assumed dictatorship so LOL at yourself. I have said group (or committee as you put it) since the very opening of the OP.
The way 343 interacts with its community is practically non existent. This is evident by the number of posts from bs angel or the MM Systems Team. In Optimatch Jerimiah was a regular poster in threads that were well constructed and which were of relevant concern which not only ensured us that the problem is acknowledged but usually would give insight into what will be done.
I already explained the problems with vanilla Reach which are fundamental flaws admitted to by 343 and Bungie themselves.