Philosophizing and some complaints

To begin, since this is going to be a long post and most of you who will just tell me to go play Halo 3 or COD aren’t going to read this, I would like for those of you who elect to be a contrarian to simply mark the begining of your reply with the characters “ABC.”

As a disclaimer, I have been a devout halo fan from the series’ beginning, playing all of the games except for Wars. I played the multiplayer components of Halo PC, Halo 3, ODST, Reach and halo 4 extensively. I am in no means trying to brag here, this is just a way to demonstrate I know what I am talking about. (if anything it’s sad how much I’ve played). Finally, when I say “casuals” I do not mean it in a derogatory sense. It is merely a descriptor. Casuals have been crucial to the success of many halo games, and the first trilogy did an excellent job of balancing accessability to casuals with competitiveness for more experienced players.

Now to actually begin:

I have come to see halo very much the same way I see the star wars movies. A fantastic original trilogy followed by some major shark-jumping and loss of identity. For halo, I think this happened due to, but not limited to, the following reasons: extreme pressure to appeal to casual (read COD) crowd (say what you will, but those games make $$$), a entirely new target audience/generation with vastly different tastes from those which the original trilogy captured, money and more money.

Based on this, I will make some assumptions. First, for those of you for whom halo 4 is an introduction to the series, I will assume that IN GENERAL you are younger, let’s say under 18 (this game is rated M FYI). Microsoft is looking for you to be the primary purchasers of halos 5 and 6 and beyond. Second, because of this new target audience, future halos WILL NOT see any sort of return to roots. I believe that 343 and microsoft are trying to establish an entirely new ground work, that thus far looks to have not really caught on with most of the people who bought the game. Lastly, an assumption I believe we all need to see as fact is that these games are being made to MAKE MONEY. If a game sells, it does not matter if it is unchanged from a predecessor or simply total poop. While halo 4 is pretty different from earlier halos, the changes mad unfortunately put the game in the latter category for me and a lot of other people.

To discuss the faults of the game itself, we must look back to Halo Reach, enigma of enigmas. I call reach this because I still can’t fully understand what Bungie was trying to produce. Was it a swam song? A cash-in? What I’ve mostly settled on is that Reach was a somewhat of a showcase full of all the great ideas bungie had and had not implemented in past halos. I believe its guiding principle was that of pure fun, and for the large part it succeeded. All aspects of the game–forge, theater, customs, etc–were direct improvements over previous halos. Except for its multiplayer (as far as campaign goes, story was nice, but I didn’t appreciate the missions that simply tried to demonstrate new mechanics). Reach’s multiplayer was a big melting pot of good ideas that conglomerated into what could be a fun, but ultimately unbalanced and poor experience. At this point, bungie stopped trying to appeal to the older halo crowd and tried to bring in more casuals to the experience. With casuals, as we all know, comes a low skill level. As bungie handed the reigns over to 343, probably chuckling as they did so, 343 listened to casuals, thinking them to be the the “halo fans” and implemented lots of changes to the multiplayer side of things. What reach truly brought to the halo series was a massively lessened skill gap.

Now jump forward a few years to halo 4. we see that it has used reach’s engine, and retained several of the features of reach with casual appeal (purely exp based rank, unnecessary armor customization, AA’s weapon imbalance…this is not noticed by players w/ low skill level). On top of this, halo 4 expanded upon what many fans of the original trilogy saw as the less desirable features of reach by adding ordinance, all class sprint and big maps. Many of these newly added features seem to draw heavy parallels to features of call of duty. It is too bad then, that 343 both failed in drawing in enough of the casual people by trying to do COD but not succeeding, while at the same time alienating the vast majority of their existing fanbase by creating a game so different from the original trilogy. I find then, that the people I know who enjoy halo 4, and in particular its multiplpayer, are those who play halo mostly for the campaign and don’t play enough MM to know the difference, and those like my 14 year old brother who think that Attack of the Clones is the best star wars.

So what does this mean? halo is in a bad spot. by forking its fanbase, the franchise is no longer what many considered THE premier FPS. The reason to buy an xbox. Not too much of a hit with the casual crowd, who appear to buy it and move on, nor with the competitive folks…MLG drops halo 4. Of course microsoft doesn’t care about all this, so long as the game sells. I only see future halo games being defiled by superfluous and gimmicky features that only serve to further send the series on its downward spiral.

What I originally intended to a be simple list of my complaints with halo 4 has unexpectedly turned into a full blown rant, so the remainder of this post will simply list some of those complaints. I would like to hear from people who truly enjoy halo 4 how what I see as negatives ACTUALLY contribute to the game. remember: THESE ARE ALL OPINION (but an opinion that seems to be shared the 100’s of thousands of people who stopped playing.) please don’t call me dumb. use reason. thanks. I apologize if my tone seems angry.

Multiplayer:
In my opinion: THE CORE PRINCIPLE OF HALO MULTIPLAYER IS THAT OF AN ARENA SHOOTER WHERE ALL PLAYERS SPAWN AT PARITY AND THEN MUST USE SKIIL TO WIN. it is a given that this must be fun. If you disagree with this, then we have fundamentally different opinions on how halo’s multiplayer should be structured and it will be difficult to effectively debate anything.

Specific points: Ordinance and loadouts are the single worst things to happen to halo 4…introduce randomness, violates core principles, promote poor gameplay, rewards bad players. Maps are too big and poorly designed (even this majestic map pack has around 1000 people in it tops…what does that tell you). This is due mostly to sprint and armor abilities like jet pack. horrendous weapon imbalance. DMR fundamentally changes gameplay. vehicles are dead. too many/poor playlists. small skill gap. no skill system.

Campaign:
I might just be getting older, but I found the story to be incredibly trite and uninteresting. If they are indeed trying to appeal to new audience, they actaully need to develop the dynamic between chief and cortana before she dies. uninventive levels seemingly designed to showcase mantis/pelican/other dumb stuff. too easy. very little replayability.

Theater:
no campaign theater. wth is going on with file system.

Forge:
“generating lighting,” junk maps, clunkyness

Custom Games:
small amount of options, considering how many reach had. they basically lost an entire part of the community

Misc.:
junk UI, “misguidedness” of entire game

i ran out of characters, so ctd.:

spartans ops is a weak excuse for firefight and an even weaker excuse to keep people playing. why could they not incorporate this story into campaign

music is worse (slightly subjective). graphics to do not contribute to halo feel and all the armor that everyone seems to be so concerned about is not even visible in game because of the terrible splotchiness that is a distant object, and close range is too much of a clusterduck to care.

other random stuff for multiplayer:
delay when capturing territory, scoreboard is basically a pause button, starting with plasmas and PP. pointless scoring, stupid premise, messed up vehicle health in combination with how effective weapons now are against vehicles. the best map is a halo 3 remake and it still plays 10x worse than it did in halo 3. aim assist, magnetism, and hitboxes all beyond what they need to be to compensate for controller. instant respawn. fiesta. commendations. lack of lots of key medals…looking at you sniper headshot. one shot kill snipers. yada yada yada. i can go on

to add to all this, I can appreciate the fact that 343 has actually listened to customer feedback of the game to a degree, but I fear that it is too late. The population has already grown too small to salvage many of the former players and I believe that the title updates are looking to please everyone. at this point, leave the game for what it is and try to fix the series. the playlist updates and map packs that were meant to appeal to the fans of halos 1-3 have too small an affected group to be of worth now

We’re going to see a repeat of the Armor Lock problem again. From ten seconds of invincibility to five, and finally beating them out of AL. All to please the people who have no patience.

Like you said, they need to focus on not fixing our problems and just fixing their own before the next gen games kill them.

I’m under 18, and have played Halo since CE.

You are in no posistion to say who is, and isn’t a Halo fan. The part that bothers me is you thought the Campaign was boring.

Yes, so after 11 years of finally waiting, we meeting a FRIGGIN LIVING BREATHING FORERUNNER, all you can say is it was boring? Were you and me even playing the same game? How did you not see the dynamic interaction between Chief and Cortana?

How are the levels showcases for Pelicans and the Mantis? You do know that even Halo CE did this? AotCR = Scorpian Central

Halo = Warthog Mania

Two Betrayals = Banshee Skies

343 Guilty Spark = Shotgun Target Practice

And how have you not wanted to drive a pelican? What fan of Halo says that flying a Pelican is “dumb”?

Before hopping into my opinion on your post i want to thank you for being calm and constructive. Read all of it. ( will have to re read parts to get all of my points in as it was a long read)

ANYWAY. Hello. I am an orignal fanbase member guy thingy. I played halo CE roughly a year or less after its release and i am 20 now. (just to give you a rough idea of time frame) I will have to respectfully disagree with you on many points. Myself and my friends who have also been around since CE enjoy halo 4 and its entirety. (though it has its own flaws just like previous titles) I don’t feel halo has gone away from its roots. Infact i would go as far as to say halo 4 plays more like halo then reach did. To put it simply halo is a lady and the “features” are the coat. Halo 4 is still the classy lady we grew to love just with a new “coat.”

Most of halo 4’s elements are direct evolutions to mechanics we already had in past halo’s some examples: equipment=AA’s weapon drop custimiziation= POD basic loadouts=fully custom loadouts…etc. Halo 4 is not popular for a variety of reasons but the one most people seem to keep skipping over is as simple as arena shooters (console wise) are just not the flavor anymore. (clearly shown by the dom. of games like COD and BF) If we were to re launch a game like halo 3 but with only new guns and maps the population will not hold. The gaming market wants other things. I believe halo 4 has made the correct changes to keep around whilst still keeping its core intact. Sure we can call in power weapons but battles still for the most part play out like they always used to.

Honestly halo has outdone itself in balance for MP. We have the DMR for newer players. We finally have GOOD automatics. And every weapon has a niche role that if given to a properly skilled player will always dump on the DMR in its specialized area. Also AA’s have been balanced as well as tactical and support packages. Everything in the load out helps you play the way you want to play. Not how you should play. No longer do we have a broken sandbox where one weapon rules them all.

You probably know nothing of engines. halo reaches engine is halo 3’s. halo 3’s is halo 2’s halo 2’s is halo CE’s. Basically everytime they make a new halo game they take the old engine strip it to the basics and re build it up from the ground again. The engine itself has little if no effect on gameplay. As far as sprint is concerned its preference. But going from having sprint to not having it would severely effect players negitively. And no bringing up player movement speed would not fix the sprint need. Besides sprint in itself is not a huge help like reach.

The maps are built “big” to fit how halo 4 plays. if we tried to halo 3 style on halo 4 maps we would feel much slower and clunkier. the leveling system is far better then reaches. Your over all performance how much you played the objective and winning effect your over all exp gain. Reach only gave exp for completion. As for campaign honestly this saddens me. it was by far the best halo campaign. there was always “a thing” between chief and cortana. You have to be blind not to see this. Halo 4 delved into who chief was as a person. From a game perspective i can see how this might be weird. 1-3 was about the war and not really the chief. But as far as books go halo 4 is going on the right path.

I can agree vehicle gameplay is a little lacking but its not broken and still is very fun.

All and all i respect your opinion but coming from someone virtually in the same shoes as you i feel you are dead wrong. 343 hasn’t alienated me or anyone else i know that is a halo fan. halo is in good hands.

I am not trying to define a halo fan by any means. I think we can agree at the very least, a fan is someone who enjoys the franchise and has played a game or two…doesn’t matter how much.

it wasn’t so much that i didn’t have a reaction, but moreso that i did not feel they developed the story enough to merit a reaction from those for whom this was presumably their first halo.

as for the pelican…yes it was awesome, and yes i see that they did this in earlier games. i think it is just mostly due to my getting older and video games having less of a role in my life

The above reply was to ONYX, this one is to razrStorm…too much to quote. I would agree with you when you say that halo 4 feels more like older halos than reach. this was the first thing I thought when I put this game in. The gameplay elements in 4 certainly are direct evolutions from those in earlier games, but I find them to be evolutions in the wrong direction in keeping with my theory of halos core multiplayer principles. It is also likely true that at this point in time if halo 3 were to be rereleased, it would not sell well. While it is of course a 6 year old game, the reason for its poor reception is due to a industry wide change in development and presumed tastes of customers due in large part to Call of Duty and the multiheaded monster that it has become, but that is another story.

I really cannot agree with you on weapon balance. yes the AR makes the game more new player-friendly, but at the same time it creates a weapon that requires very little skill and only serves to lessen the skill gap. This is of course only a concern if again you believe in my core principle. The DMR in this game is what the BR was in Halo 2. You will win 90% of your encounters regardless of range save absolute point-blank shotgun distance. As far as map size goes, it’s a question of what came first: the long range precision weapon/enhanced mobility or the big map. Whichever it was, by electing to pursue this, 343 changes the entire conflict dynamic of a map. see valhalla/ragnarok bewtween 3 and 4.

You are right, I know squat about engines. Rather than engine, I should say that it still has very much of a reach feel.

I still stand by my statements on campaign. I know exactly were you are coming from, because I felt exactly the same way in my first week or so in the game when I played through everything. I think due the nature of a video game though, I did not see enough time invested in the development of chief. Legendary ending made me sad. that is sacrilege lol.

ABC-XYZ

First let me say I am a Casual gamer, not even that I really just bought an Xbox for Halo 3. (well 2 so we could play each other, he was too young for online play back then).

I agree with a lot of what you have said and have mentioned the $$$ before.

My son played CE, 2 and 3 to death, Reach a lot and some ODST. I played CE, 2 and 3 but nowhere as much as he did. I played Reach more and enjoyed multi-player but gave up when it appeared everyone used Armor Lock so was really looking forward to H4.

He does not play hardly ever now as he said it is too much like Star Wars. What he does not like I do. I love the lore and hence Spartan Ops is more appealing to me as the story is developed week on week keeping my interest.

I enjoyed the campaign and completed it Legendary which I found much easier than previous titles. Halo 4 is easier for guys like me I agree. I also expected more from the story but as you said 343i have to try and bring in new players so I guess they tried to pull it all back together before 6 and 7. Only time and The Terminals will tell.

It takes me a good while to learn new maps and I will go solo (regicide) to help but not all maps are available so when I play with a team I know I am weak (sometimes) and will guard the flag, run like heck with the ball, guard an extraction or whatever but I do tend to die a lot but I don’t care if my team wins because it’s a team game.

Heck I could not get 2 minutes peace on Majestic just to watch the backgrounds (LOL) but did feel these maps speeded the game up a bit and were better than any previous map. I also look for hidden stuff in maps, Glyphs and codes if I get JiP or my team is going to get a hiding anyway.

To me it seems that team play is almost dead unless you come up against a real organised team then your The Didacts dinner. I just marvelled at being spawn killed on Complex. 90% of the time I use Camo as my AA as I know how to use it as it has always been in Halo. If not that then Regeneration or Auto Sentry alongside Wheelman and Gunner. Just trying to give my team the best chance. Too many “Pro’s” and hardcore FPS gamers are too worried about KD and stats that they are lone wolfing most of the time. Just watch when a game starts and I think too many big maps are made it like this. These maps are big but not big enough to stop you rushing/dying and having a 2 minute hike back to the action like in H2.

I see Spartan Ops as the way forward, well through MS/343i eyes anyway. It will generate cash flow (like MS need it) and not have people working for a couple of years before knowing if it will be a hit or not and making a loss. Maybe they are scared of COD.

Mostly I play Halo for fun. If it really annoyed me like a lot of “haters” on here I would play/do something else. Their is lots of great content for Halo that I don’t think exists for other games. Halo Legends, all the Waypoint stuff we have had over the years, Heart of Midlothian was great and in a different format, Forward unto Dawn. Then we have books, board games, toys (Halo is a M rated game but they do mega blocks WTF). For about 4 years all my son wanted for Xmas, Birthdays was Halo stuff, Figures, models etc and this all makes $$$.

I will finish on this. The Endgame

ZYX-CBA

FitsHisFace–Your take on all this is really a breath of fresh air. 95% of the people on these forums are overzealous lunatics who are either the tryhard pros that you talk about or staunch fanboys of a particular trilogy. The point is to simply have fun. I think it best that we all take a moment and realize that despite our love/hate for halo, in the big picture this is all for money. Since none of us are paid employees of 343/microsoft, we all need to chill. Thanks for your post

> The above reply was to ONYX, this one is to razrStorm…too much to quote. I would agree with you when you say that halo 4 feels more like older halos than reach. this was the first thing I thought when I put this game in. The gameplay elements in 4 certainly are direct evolutions from those in earlier games, but I find them to be evolutions in the wrong direction in keeping with my theory of halos core multiplayer principles. It is also likely true that at this point in time if halo 3 were to be rereleased, it would not sell well. While it is of course a 6 year old game, the reason for its poor reception is due to a industry wide change in development and presumed tastes of customers due in large part to Call of Duty and the multiheaded monster that it has become, but that is another story.
>
> I really cannot agree with you on weapon balance. yes the AR makes the game more new player-friendly, but at the same time it creates a weapon that requires very little skill and only serves to lessen the skill gap. This is of course only a concern if again you believe in my core principle. The DMR in this game is what the BR was in Halo 2. You will win 90% of your encounters regardless of range save absolute point-blank shotgun distance. As far as map size goes, it’s a question of what came first: the long range precision weapon/enhanced mobility or the big map. Whichever it was, by electing to pursue this, 343 changes the entire conflict dynamic of a map. see valhalla/ragnarok bewtween 3 and 4.
>
> You are right, I know squat about engines. Rather than engine, I should say that it still has very much of a reach feel.
>
> I still stand by my statements on campaign. I know exactly were you are coming from, because I felt exactly the same way in my first week or so in the game when I played through everything. I think due the nature of a video game though, I did not see enough time invested in the development of chief. Legendary ending made me sad. that is sacrilege lol.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree as far as weapon balancing goes. From my perspective i feel the sandbox weapon wise is finally good. To me no weapon feels useless. But i am basing that some what off of my own experiences. The DMR does not feel like an issue outside of BTB. And in btb i don’t think its the weapon itself more about poor map design catering to one play style instead of most. That and the counter of the DMR for long range is the LR which in itself has a weird scope and is harder to use then the DMR.

Thus creating a one weapon to rule them all in btb. As far as campaign goes i feel they did a good start. halo 5 and 6 will delve much farther into chief.

> I can agree vehicle gameplay is a little lacking but its not broken and still is very fun.

Well the boarding mechanic is broken and absolutely nobody is bringing this to 343I’s attention. The banshee is still weak physically as well.

> > I can agree vehicle gameplay is a little lacking but its not broken and still is very fun.
>
> Well the boarding mechanic is broken and absolutely nobody is bringing this to 343I’s attention. The banshee is still weak physically as well.

Explain? As far as the banshee goes its much more durable then reaches. in reach one sniper clip could take a banshee down. That is not possible in halo 4 as far as iv’e seen.

Yea in a spark cast they said they upped the banshees health a fair amount, I think it was the 16th one.

These are great thoughts, and I agree with you completely on MP. However it bothers me that you didn’t like the campaign. Halo 4 is my second favorite Halo campaign. I thought it was paced beautifully, and the story was phenomenal. No campaign theater was a huge disappointment, however. I speedrun, so it sucks. Also, please do not generalize. I’m under 18, and I enjoy the classic Arena style MP much more than 4. My first game was Reach, but I have played every game except Wars (I hate RTS’s) and think that Halo 3 MP is awesome. So not everyone under 18 needs to be babysat through a game that doesn’t require skill. I like the games where everyone starts the same and needs skill to win. Other than those annoyances, I thought you hit the spot. Refer to Onyx81’s first post for something else I agree on.