people think less bloom is the way to go? Really?

Ok first let me start off with this fact:
No Bloom does not, i repeat No Bloom does NOT work in a game with these settings, it was just was not meant to be like that and it breaks the game.

Dont get me wrong, i’m not supporting default Reach’s bloom, it was poorly implemented because the reticle did not grow big enough and did not grow fast enough to punish spammers it was infact the WORST of the bloom options, because the hit chance was still slightly bigger than the miss chance so there was a bigger chance for a spammer to win DMR battles than pacers.

Now, let’s take a look at 85% bloom while better and has a higher chance of your shots getting to where you aim, now the question is…why is it there?
Don’t even hope it’s even gonna do anything to stop spammers so it’s basically just there to add a randomizing chance, so it’s basically useless there might aswell play Zero Bloom to not have to deal with that small, useless randomizing chance.

Now what should we do then you ask? then i ask to INCREASE the bloom, that’s what 343 should be doing now, decreasing it will only attract more spammers, increasing it to like 150% or 200% so people can’t go all trigger happy and actually have to pace.

Now let’s take a look at GOW3, ALL starting weapons are balanced, but specifically let’s a look at a weapon called the retro lancer, it’s range is exactly the same as the lancer (which is about the same as the DMR is in Halo)but if you get at point blank range with someone with it and take all the shots, you WILL die in less than 2 seconds
Now youre think “this weapon must be so OP!” no, it isn’t why? becuase it has bloom, yes, there is bloom in GOW3 and it actually works as intended the retro’s bloom is HUGE, about 2.5 times the size of the Default Reach’s DMR at max rate. The reticle also grows almost instantly if you try to have the trigger down for a few seconds making pacing at long range, the only way to succed with it even though it’s meant to be a close range weapon.

end/rant.

> Now let’s take a look at GOW3, ALL starting weapons are balanced

Sawn Off would like words with you

I think if increased bloom were to be implemented, it would have to been complimented by a decreased bloom reset time, otherwise the game play is just gonna slow down even more. Still, the changes 343i have brought concerning bloom are still improve upon ‘vanilla Reach’.

> Ok first let me start off with this fact:
> No Bloom does not, i repeat No Bloom does NOT work in a game with these settings, it was just was not meant to be like that and it breaks the game.

No bloom works great. It just doesn’t work with the default Reach settings.

Play with no AAs, 120% Speed, 125% Jump and 200% Gravity.

ZB actually turns out quite nicely with MLG settings i.e. faster movement speed and higher jump height with higher gravity. It makes it easier to strafe and dodge bullets, so the kill times aren’t so quick as in default ZB settings.

But anyway, to increase the bloom in Reach would turn even more people off, regardless of whether it’s how bloom should work or not. Pacing for accuracy was never a part of Halo until Reach. It just doesn’t belong, imo.

You aren’t looking at things from a broader point of view, and I have a strong feeling you’ve been playing too much reach and forgot how past Halo games played. If the game hadn’t shipped with bloom, and the sandbox hadn’t been balanced around it, would you still be asking for bloom? I highly doubt it.

Pacing your shots does not belong in Halo. With large amounts of health(the majority of which is fully regenerative) players don’t need an added mechanic that makes it easier to disengage, or lengthen kill times.

By the way this post is pointless. Again, it’s a beta and the real TU is only for the CEA playlist, MLG’s playlist in the 2012 season, and Arena if it is not replaced by MLG. Which most likely it will be. I seriously do not get what you people want. These settings are not for you. Go back to GOW 3.

They know it’s not perfect. Reach settings DO need a little tweaking to finalize any kind of bloom change. But let’s make things crystal-freaking-clear.

“THIS ISNT HALO OMFG WTF YER ALL NOOBS $%$%^&%$&*”
You’ve never played any other Halo game, or you wouldn’t be running your mouth. If people CONTINUE to use this argument, assume they’re 10 years old.

“I’m so sick of all you MLG people blah blah blah”
Returning skill to a series that was based on it has nothing to do with MLG. You still have custom games.

“ZB is not realistic”
Neither is Halo. Go play COD.

Don’t get me wrong. I dislike MLG. I don’t like anything about it. But what I do like is hitting headshots, and being rewarded with them, rather than being told “Oh woah, hey there buddy. We know you’re landing headshots, but thats just too fast. You need to slow it down. Thanks bro.”

Why do I, a player of at least slightly above average skill, need to tone down my shots because someone of average or below average skill gets hurt feelings over how fast I kill them? It takes away from MY gaming experience. I’m literally being “rewarded” with more work. Bloom, as high as it is, is unfair. Period.

Now, as I see it, we don’t need to remove it altogether. Us Pro-ZBers can and should meet you guys half-way. That’s fine. But fact is, people crying such ridiculous things as those stated above would cry over bloom being reduced even 1%.

At the end of all of this, not everyone is going to be happy. It’s impossible. But hopefully 343i at least understands that they really wouldn’t be taking any hits to the Pre-Reach fanbase if they returned it to how it before Reach.

> By the way this post is pointless. Again, it’s a beta and the real TU is only for the CEA playlist, MLG’s playlist in the 2012 season, and Arena if it is not replaced by MLG. Which most likely it will be. I seriously do not get what you people want. These settings are not for you. Go back to GOW 3.

What are you even talking about? I’m going to be spending most of my time in the Anniversary playlist when it comes out. I’m sick of Reach.

Zero Bloom =/= spamming.

HAHAHAHAHA you think gears of war 3 has balanced starting weapons?? have you seen the sawed off shotgun? its a joke. bloom is based on luck, i don’t want my competitive shooter based off of randomness.

Let me just clear up some things in this thread, cause clearly there are still people who need an explanation.
Its not really called spamming anymore when there is no bloom. I am mean you never spammed the BR, but rather you can call it shooting. With bloom at short to medium range the spammer usually wins due to the reticle increasing and being the same size as the player, reducing the chance to miss. Also there is a luck factor in spamming, thus decreasing the skill required. This means that it is easier to aim when spamming. If you pace, then you have more time to aim, therefore decreasing the skill required.
When there is ZB and you are firing at a high rate of fire, there is less time to aim, and the rectile is smaller, meaning its harder to aim, thus increasing the skill gap.
In a good competitive game, reaction time, aiming, movement and teamwork is important in order to have a wide skill gap. You have to maximize the importance of all aspects of skill in order to have a good competitive experience. Bloom slows the game down, decreasing the importance of reaction time and aiming, therefore reducing the skill required. Hope this cleared some things up.

ZB is terrible.

While it is closer in some ways to what “old” halo games played like, it has ruined the other weapons in the game. Which is the problem with trying to change a primary game mechanic in a TU. ZB is fine if everyone wants to use the DMR, and only if everyone wants to use the DMR, the rest of the sandbox has become pretty much obsolete, or overpowerd. I think the needle rife is the best example of how the changes have had adverse effects on the games weapons. With it now being capable of going fully auto with very little negative effect on the accuracy, it has become a long range needler with no need to aim from across the map, cause you can score a supercombine before most other players can drop your shields and score a headshot.

That said, I would love to play a more “Halo” halo, but if ZB is going to be the result I would rather wait to see if they get it right in H4 as opposed to trying to play what they have in Reach now. Fix it or leave it alone I say! No more of this “in between but not good either way” garbage!

I am hoping that eventually we get a gamtype with increased Bloom. I would love to see how that would work even if it was just in customs.

> > Now let’s take a look at GOW3, ALL starting weapons are balanced
>
> Sawn Off would like words with you

The Hammerburst’s butt’s been aching since the day Gears 3 came out. Doesn’t stand a chance.

The Lancer and Retro work. And I find the Gnasher and Sawed Off balanced fine.

But ultimately removing bloom isn’t about fixing weapons balance. It’s about making the DMR, NR, and Magnum skill reliant weapons… It only worked for the DMR and NR though.

Increase bloom? You might as well spawn us with sticks and stones.

Increasing killtimes is definitely not the way to go.

Yes. Halo isn’t like R6. Spartans/Elites don’t have perfect control over their weapons either. Just really, really good control.

Spartans are snipers with a MA5, but only when single-shotting. Spartans can control recoil but they cannot control the inherent properties of their weapons with recoil damping systems, or the heat buildup when rapid firing. Only with controlling their rates of fire can a Spartan be an uber-soldier.

Conversely, it is very silly to claim Spartans don’t feel recoil. Pop in CE right now and fire off that Pistol baby. The game mechanics don’t allow the players to fire the next shot till the Chief has reset his aim from the recoil of the Pistol.

The addition of bloom allows the player to fire before the weapon rested properly. It’s a choice to fire before rested, and yes that inherently is a factor of luck because I’m choosing to not fire at optimal timing and that means I could miss for it. But if I keep my battle awareness about me, I will know when I can and cannot vary my timing.
I like that I don’t have to run around mindlessly through the map because of it.

Now about thinking during “high level” game-play and “bad choices.” It’s a crock to say one thinks when playing when “in the moment.”
Most in-game choices are made before the game even starts because they are reactions, not thoughts. The physical attributes and level of execution determine how effective those choices will become.
Thinking requires too much time and so it is our conditioned self, our near-instinct self that does the playing. And for some of us, that’s awesome because it’s like we’re watching a movie from behind our brains. For others, it’s got other reasons to be an equally cool feeling.
Game-play additions cause players to think until the additions become one with their game. Some players like that, others don’t. As long as the option is there for the players who don’t want them (ironically put), the additions don’t effect the ones who don’t want them (literally put).

> Increase bloom? You might as well spawn us with sticks and stones.
>
> Increasing killtimes is definitely not the way to go.

the DMR’s kill time is ~2.0 seconds for 5 paced shots (with a cadence)

with the TU playlist, its 20% less because its a 4 shot kill instead of a 5 shot kill. i dont think increasing bloom would really increase the kill times by all that much (if at all). and at the very least, it would make bloom work AS INTENDED so it actually has a chance to add skill gap WITHOUT adding random luck nonsense.

> > Increase bloom? You might as well spawn us with sticks and stones.
> >
> > Increasing killtimes is definitely not the way to go.
>
> the DMR’s kill time is ~2.0 seconds for 5 paced shots (with a cadence)
>
> with the TU playlist, its 20% less because its a 4 shot kill instead of a 5 shot kill. i dont think increasing bloom would really increase the kill times by all that much (if at all). and at the very least, it would make bloom work AS INTENDED so it actually has a chance to add skill gap WITHOUT adding random luck nonsense.

Its still a 5sk, It only becomes a 4sk if any tiny sliver of damage has been done to you.

> > Increase bloom? You might as well spawn us with sticks and stones.
> >
> > Increasing killtimes is definitely not the way to go.
>
> the DMR’s kill time is ~2.0 seconds for 5 paced shots (with a cadence)
>
> with the TU playlist, its 20% less because its a 4 shot kill instead of a 5 shot kill. i dont think increasing bloom would really increase the kill times by all that much (if at all). and at the very least, it would make bloom work AS INTENDED so it actually has a chance to add skill gap WITHOUT adding random luck nonsense.

I was under the impression we would get a wide range of settings to compensate for not having the ability to adjust the settings for ourselves. I hope this becomes a reality soon.