This ISN’T the biggest issue. The biggest issue is expansion of maps and how it affects almost every aspect of the gameplay. The major problem with sprint isn’t so much that people can survive when they shouldn’t, though that is a problem that needs to be solved, it’s that sprint is fundamentally incompatable with Halo. It simply doesn’t work.
Thankfully at least you have the right idea on the negative effects of sprint.
Shameless bump because anti and pro sprinters alike need to realize this.
Another anti-sprint thread that repeats what has been said for 5+ years. This doesn’t add to the conversation, and both sides will ignore points of the other, so it isn’t worth discussing in another form. Maps have been designed around it, and with a year (less) to rework everything built for the way the game plays, it will not change significantly. People, let it go. If it fundamentally “breaks” Halo to you, then don’t play Halo. if it is playable, then it is not completely broken as a mechanic. If they get rid of it, here or in the future, it still will not change this point. The mechanic of sprint is not 100% negative, nor is is objective to say that sprint is bad for Halo. It is an opinion that players arguing against it do not like, yet people will still play with (much like my own opinion of dual wielding in 2/3).
The running away affects a lot as well, players running away slows down the game, makes it shallow, and makes the game much more team skill based rather than individual skill based like it was in halo ce. Trying to stop people from using sprint to run away doesn’t work because the maps and gameplay are designed around that happening, so nerfs only make the game play worse.
> 2535458386964330;4:
> Another anti-sprint thread that repeats what has been said for 5+ years. This doesn’t add to the conversation, and both sides will ignore points of the other, so it isn’t worth discussing in another form. Maps have been designed around it, and with a year (less) to rework everything built for the way the game plays, it will not change significantly. People, let it go. If it fundamentally “breaks” Halo to you, then don’t play Halo. if it is playable, then it is not completely broken as a mechanic. If they get rid of it, here or in the future, it still will not change this point. The mechanic of sprint is not 100% negative, nor is is objective to say that sprint is bad for Halo. It is an opinion that players arguing against it do not like, yet people will still play with (much like my own opinion of dual wielding in 2/3).
Just because we use it doesn’t mean we have to like it. If we didn’t use it we’d be walking around giant maps and dealing with people using the very ability we aren’t. Also, no it’s objectively bad for the game in more ways than one, though I’m curious to see what positives you see come from sprint.
> 2535458386964330;4:
> Another anti-sprint thread that repeats what has been said for 5+ years. This doesn’t add to the conversation, and both sides will ignore points of the other, so it isn’t worth discussing in another form. Maps have been designed around it, and with a year (less) to rework everything built for the way the game plays, it will not change significantly. People, let it go. If it fundamentally “breaks” Halo to you, then don’t play Halo. if it is playable, then it is not completely broken as a mechanic. If they get rid of it, here or in the future, it still will not change this point. The mechanic of sprint is not 100% negative, nor is is objective to say that sprint is bad for Halo. It is an opinion that players arguing against it do not like, yet people will still play with (much like my own opinion of dual wielding in 2/3).
I’m not trying to add to the conversation, I’m trying to clarify it. Most anti sprinters don’t like sprint because of the effect of the map expansion (long range dominance, campy gameplay, grenade throw range, slowing down of gameplay, reduced emphasis of strafing, etc.). THESE are the real problems. I would almost say that people running away is barely an argument as it is not really provable or disprovable objectively and can only account for anectdotal evidence; thus, if you base your entire argument for sprint as a contention against this one point, you really aren’t making an effective argument.
> 2533274929479318;6:
> > 2535458386964330;4:
> > Another anti-sprint thread that repeats what has been said for 5+ years. This doesn’t add to the conversation, and both sides will ignore points of the other, so it isn’t worth discussing in another form. Maps have been designed around it, and with a year (less) to rework everything built for the way the game plays, it will not change significantly. People, let it go. If it fundamentally “breaks” Halo to you, then don’t play Halo. if it is playable, then it is not completely broken as a mechanic. If they get rid of it, here or in the future, it still will not change this point. The mechanic of sprint is not 100% negative, nor is is objective to say that sprint is bad for Halo. It is an opinion that players arguing against it do not like, yet people will still play with (much like my own opinion of dual wielding in 2/3).
>
>
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> Just because we use it doesn’t mean we have to like it. If we didn’t use it we’d be walking around giant maps and dealing with people using the very ability we aren’t. Also, no it’s objectively bad for the game in more ways than one, though I’m curious to see what positives you see come from sprint.
I’ve stated it in many of these types of threads, not going there again with you. You’re the same guy flaming me for pulling stats out of “thin air” when it comes to average kill times/life spans in previous Halo games, despite experience in any of the games.
As for the original poster, I can see your decision to create the thread as a clarification, but it has been exhausted. People hear that maps are changed. The strafing/basespeed/etc changes are not inherently because of sprint (current values are dev based, and many would like to see increase in base speed and decrease in sprint speed). But the argument has been made. Can we please use the forums for more than anti-sprint and hate towards new mechanics?
Count how many of these threads have been made (and even by the same posters, like Astronaut), and it’s easy to see why people may miss out on the conversation. But map design is not only affected by sprint. There have been poorly designed maps in every Halo. The ratio of good to bad maps is preference based, and if none of the maps were fun to play on, people would move on (would be interesting to test, but impossible. )
But I like bigger Mao’s. The halo 5 beta was the first time I ever enjoyed midship.
> 2535458386964330;8:
> > 2533274929479318;6:
> > > 2535458386964330;4:
> > > Another anti-sprint thread that repeats what has been said for 5+ years. This doesn’t add to the conversation, and both sides will ignore points of the other, so it isn’t worth discussing in another form. Maps have been designed around it, and with a year (less) to rework everything built for the way the game plays, it will not change significantly. People, let it go. If it fundamentally “breaks” Halo to you, then don’t play Halo. if it is playable, then it is not completely broken as a mechanic. If they get rid of it, here or in the future, it still will not change this point. The mechanic of sprint is not 100% negative, nor is is objective to say that sprint is bad for Halo. It is an opinion that players arguing against it do not like, yet people will still play with (much like my own opinion of dual wielding in 2/3).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just because we use it doesn’t mean we have to like it. If we didn’t use it we’d be walking around giant maps and dealing with people using the very ability we aren’t. Also, no it’s objectively bad for the game in more ways than one, though I’m curious to see what positives you see come from sprint.
>
>
>
> I’ve stayed it in many of these types of threads, not going there again with you. You’re the same guy flaming me for pulling stats out of “thin air” when it comes to average kill times/life spans in previous Halo games, despite experience in any of the games.
>
> As for the original poster, I can see your decision to create the thread as a clarification, but it has been exhausted. People hear that maps are changed. The strafing/basespeed/etc changes are not inherently because of sprint (current values are dev based, and many would like to see increase in base speed and decrease in sprint speed). But the argument has been made. Can we please use the forums for more than anti-sprint and hate towards new mechanics?
>
> Count how many of these threads have been made (and even by the same posters, like Astronaut), and it’s easy to see why people may miss out on the conversation. But map design is not only affected by sprint. There have been poorly designed maps in every Halo. The ratio of good to bad maps is preference based, and if none of the maps were fun to play on, people would move on (would be interesting to test, but impossible. )
I didn’t flame you, I called into question your stats, and you flipped out like a child, and in the process invalidated your stats with simple anecdotes.
Empire is the perfect example of a map that is small (much smaller than the Pit which is considered a “medium-sized” map). Just because sprint is in the game doesn’t mean that map design “suffers”. It’s totally possible to create maps that are small and allow sprint to be a viable tool.
> 2533274828579555;11:
> Empire is the perfect example of a map that is small (much smaller than the Pit which is considered a “medium-sized” map). Just because sprint is in the game doesn’t mean that map design “suffers”. It’s totally possible to create maps that are small and allow sprint to be a viable tool.
The devs have confirmed that they compensate maps, frank o’connor said it on a podcast with bravo.
> 2533274840212973;1:
> This ISN’T the biggest issue. The biggest issue is expansion of maps and how it affects almost every aspect of the gameplay. The major problem with sprint isn’t so much that people can survive when they shouldn’t, though that is a problem that needs to be solved, it’s that sprint is fundamentally incompatable with Halo. It simply doesn’t work.
First off they did solve the problem, you don’t get shield recharge. second most maps that they have, have tons of open areas so even if they are sprinting away, you can still hit them.
> 2533274868062286;13:
> > 2533274840212973;1:
> > This ISN’T the biggest issue. The biggest issue is expansion of maps and how it affects almost every aspect of the gameplay. The major problem with sprint isn’t so much that people can survive when they shouldn’t, though that is a problem that needs to be solved, it’s that sprint is fundamentally incompatable with Halo. It simply doesn’t work.
>
>
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> First off they did solve the problem, you don’t get shield recharge. second most maps that they have, have tons of open areas so even if they are sprinting away, you can still hit them.
That nerf does absolutely nothing, the game still plays at a snails pace and is still shallow because either everyone’s chasing each other, or no one is sprinting at all on map designed around sprinting. You are not going to see someone in the open every time the start sprinting, it’s just as bad as before if not worse.
> 2533274929479318;10:
> > 2535458386964330;8:
> > > 2533274929479318;6:
> > > > 2535458386964330;4:
> > > > Another anti-sprint thread that repeats what has been said for 5+ years. This doesn’t add to the conversation, and both sides will ignore points of the other, so it isn’t worth discussing in another form. Maps have been designed around it, and with a year (less) to rework everything built for the way the game plays, it will not change significantly. People, let it go. If it fundamentally “breaks” Halo to you, then don’t play Halo. if it is playable, then it is not completely broken as a mechanic. If they get rid of it, here or in the future, it still will not change this point. The mechanic of sprint is not 100% negative, nor is is objective to say that sprint is bad for Halo. It is an opinion that players arguing against it do not like, yet people will still play with (much like my own opinion of dual wielding in 2/3).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just because we use it doesn’t mean we have to like it. If we didn’t use it we’d be walking around giant maps and dealing with people using the very ability we aren’t. Also, no it’s objectively bad for the game in more ways than one, though I’m curious to see what positives you see come from sprint.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ve stayed it in many of these types of threads, not going there again with you. You’re the same guy flaming me for pulling stats out of “thin air” when it comes to average kill times/life spans in previous Halo games, despite experience in any of the games.
> >
> > As for the original poster, I can see your decision to create the thread as a clarification, but it has been exhausted. People hear that maps are changed. The strafing/basespeed/etc changes are not inherently because of sprint (current values are dev based, and many would like to see increase in base speed and decrease in sprint speed). But the argument has been made. Can we please use the forums for more than anti-sprint and hate towards new mechanics?
> >
> > Count how many of these threads have been made (and even by the same posters, like Astronaut), and it’s easy to see why people may miss out on the conversation. But map design is not only affected by sprint. There have been poorly designed maps in every Halo. The ratio of good to bad maps is preference based, and if none of the maps were fun to play on, people would move on (would be interesting to test, but impossible. )
>
>
>
> I didn’t flame you, I called into question your stats, and you flipped out like a child, and in the process invalidated your stats with simple anecdotes.
No, I did not flip out like a child, I countered with experience and explained my basis for the stats (kill times). not sure where that invalidates anything.
You keep egging on the topic by saying how the game is shallow and chase based. Numerous videos have been shown (not the bait videos for chasing) that display the effectiveness of the gameplay as it stands. Your experiences may vary from mine, but I will not claim mine are the only ones. However, in the course of 3 weeks in beta, and 14 years with different Halo games, I have seenany different play styles from many different players. If chasing is the only thing you have found, then either you have not played enough, or you continue to play the same types of players. Neither is a fact of the how the game plays every time, nor does it show how the game is always played.
If the game does not play to your enjoyment (which seems more based on the types of players than the mechanics alone), then prhaps you would enjoy a different game more? Molding Halo 5 into something that is drastically different than the beta would be counterproductive to the development cycle.
> 2533274929479318;12:
> > 2533274828579555;11:
> > Empire is the perfect example of a map that is small (much smaller than the Pit which is considered a “medium-sized” map). Just because sprint is in the game doesn’t mean that map design “suffers”. It’s totally possible to create maps that are small and allow sprint to be a viable tool.
>
>
> The devs have confirmed that they compensate maps, frank o’connor said it on a podcast with bravo.
Compensate =/= Suffer. Good tight maps are still possible.
> 2533274840212973;1:
> This ISN’T the biggest issue. The biggest issue is expansion of maps and how it affects almost every aspect of the gameplay. The major problem with sprint isn’t so much that people can survive when they shouldn’t, though that is a problem that needs to be solved, it’s that sprint is fundamentally incompatable with Halo. It simply doesn’t work.
That is the worst argument I have ever heard. Maps? You have to realize that games with sprint have both small and large maps, and games without sprint still have large and small maps. Games with sprint have both open and cluttered maps, games without sprint have both open and cluttered maps. Will a good map designer factor in movement mechanics? Absolutely, but the two are not mutually inclusive and one does not dictate the other. Movement mechanics =/= map design.
You are wrong. The worst aspect of sprint with Halo was its direct effect on how people engage in combat. ttk was too slow, so if someone did not get the jump, they would sprint away. THAT was the problem. Not maps. And Halo 5, is absolutely moving in the right direction with sprint.
Does sprint still need tweaking? I definitely think so. I think it should be slower, and base speed should be increased.
I’m not sure how people are running away from most of you. Maybe 1 out of every 40 encounters did someone manage to escape the fight and about 80% of those guy still died a few seconds later still.
Map being bigger is not a problem either as halo has always been a game about long range weapons being better then the short range ones.
“so much that people can survive when they shouldn’t”
Here is part of your problem. Your idea of who ‘can’ survive and when they shouldn’t is just your opinion, and it might not even be a good one. I think the sprint adds quite a dynamic to the game myself. so run after them if they run off. Their shields don’t regen while they are running.
Strafe & shoot, hop around, strafe & shoot, hop around, strafe & shoot, hop around. Stand there and let me kill you! Don’t you dare do anything but wiggle side to side!
Those are just lyrics to a new pop song I’m working on.
I thought the beta was fun. That’s all I really look for in a game. It was better than Reach and Halo 4. It felt like what Reach should have been. It felt like they dialed Halo 4 back a bit and mixed it with Halo 3. I enjoy the modern mechanics.