Hey Friends,
I have heard from people that Pavium may be a bit OP, however looking at the data across the board from low to high level he is one of the most balanced leaders for win/loss rate we have and has some of the highest usage.
What do you think is overwhelming/underwhelming with this leader?
Cheers,
Post
Other than the Ultra Mines’ recharge time I think he’s pretty sound.
I suspected his win rates would be fairly neutral.
So a couple of things that I believe need changing/addressing:
Those are the things I can think of right now I may edit more later. All in all, I love playing Pavium. Absolutely love it. I would hate to see him become useless so I am avidly against any hard nerfs. Subtle changes to start with and go from there.
EDIT:
This is off topic but I would like to know if it would be possible to get more in-depth stats for our HW2 careers? Win/loss rates by leader and map would be awesome! I get it would probably be a lot of work to add the “by map” portion, but I would love a more detailed breakdown of performance by leader.
Hi, Carnage!
Thank you for asking the community for feedback, as the data can sometimes be misleading to how things actually play out.
As for your question, Pavium is without question OP, borderline broken. Though, I will admit, he is much more of an issue in 1’s than he is in 2’s or 3’s. One of my biggest complaints about him, is that his bases cannot be broken late game in 1’s. Save a few leaders (Trox, Vord, Johny), Pav’s bases won’t ever be broken. The combination of, Mines, RoF, Pav’s Stand, and Mega Turrets result in him being impossible to break late game. Leaders such as Shipmaster, Anders, and Deci literally cannot break his bases late game. Okay, rant over. Onto what his biggest issues are.
1. First up, is his hero, Pavium himself.
Too much splash. His damage feels fine, but the splash area is a little over the top. I get that he is a slow moving powerhouse, but it’s a little silly. Lowering his splash area a whisker would be welcome.
Secondary ability (Designator). My friends and I like to call this the “meme beam”. It was nerfed a little bit in the last update, but it needs to be nerfed more. I suggest reducing the radius and maybe the slow effect.2. Ultra Mines. These are the most OP aspect of Pav, in my opinion, as they are capable of wiping complete armies for next to no cost.
Most importantly, the mines NEED to have a slower arm time. Currently, the mines can be dropped right on top of an army and will explode before the player has the time to react. Increasing the arm time by ~0.5 seconds would make this ability much more fair.
For how destructive these mines are, I feel they cool down too quickly and are two cheap.3. Rain of Fire. Nothing too crazy here, just minor tweaks.
RoF does too much damage to buildings. Its damage to units is fine, but its base damage is hilarious. I urge you to lower its damage towards structures. - As with the mines, the cool-down on RoF feels too short. I recommend increasing it, for how destructive this ability can be.4. Mega Turrets
The Mega Turrets need to scale more in price. With Burnout, the cost increase is almost negligible, especially later on in the game. Increasing the cost scaling by 1.5 feels appropriate to me. Their damage, build time, HP, etc. all feel fine to me, they just need to scale a little more in cost. - Additionally, I think Siege Turrets should scale in cost, just like Mega Turrets, though, by a smaller amount.5. Pavium’s Stand. Not so much a big deal in team games, but almost broken in 1’s.
This ability is one of the main reasons Pav can’t be broken in the late game (1’s). Having all structures invulnerable for thirty seconds (or however long it is), is just hilariously strong. Decreasing Pav’s Stand active time in half (give or take) would be an appropriate course of action. Increasing its cost would also be welcome.6. Lich. The one aspect of Pavium that is UP.
Currently the Lich is glorified flying sponge. Increasing its attack damage and lowering the build time from the portal (whatever that’s classified as) would make it feel much more useful. However, if the buff were significant enough, its cost may also have to be increased, for balance and what not.I think that covers just about everything. If I think of anything else, I will update this post!
Thank you for your time and I hope this helps.
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> I suspected his win rates would be fairly neutral.
>
> So a couple of things that I believe need changing/addressing:
>
> 1. Pavium’s Y ability (hero unit) is pretty absurd. An AoE debuff that has a ridiculous slow. I think if the AoE was dropped a bit it would be more understandable.
> 2. Ultra Mines do recharge pretty quickly.
> 3. The Lich needs a DPS buff. In a lot of cases it’s better to put your leader point into something else.
> 4. Pavium’s Stand could use an increase in cost. Not by a drastic amount, but it’s a really good ability so the price should reflect its usefulness.
>
> - I’m indifferent about a damage reduction to Rain of Fire. I can see why others want a nerf but personally I don’t think it warrants much of one. It becomes problematic when paired with any form of CC, however.
>
> Those are the things I can think of right now I may edit more later. All in all, I love playing Pavium. Absolutely love it. I would hate to see him become useless so I am avidly against any hard nerfs. Subtle changes to start with and go from there.
No crazy hard nerfs are planned, but the two most common themes I have heard is his hero being so strong early game (really good against inf) while his later game with ultra mines is a bit overwhelming when dropped over units because they come back so fast.
Right now I’m investigating him and seeing what if anything needs to be touched beyond mines, the hero unit, and the cost for Pavium’s stand.
Sad Joker95 -
I agree with your list except for two things: Pavium’s auto attacks having too much AoE and Rain of Fire damage to buildings. I think these two things are acceptable, warranting no more than a handful of percentage points worth of a nerf. Pavium’s DPS when moving is hilariously bad. Chosen does comparable if not more AoE and can do so while kiting the enemy infantry around.
Rain of Fire is this dude’s only offensive ability if mines get put in line (which I assume they will). Maybe I am in the minority here but I just don’t think Rain deserves a nerf to buildings. I guess I am okay with it either way, it still gets the job done against units.
I believe he is fairly balanced, yet could use some tweaking.
1.) Rain of Fire does too much damage to Bases. Not Units. There’s something wrong when the enemy seems to prioritize this power on bases. It even does more damage than Atriox’s Eradicate to structures.
2.) Lich beam tickles your opponent. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still good for 600/600, but it doesn’t feel like an ultimate. Increase it’s damage and health while increasing the cost. Maybe 1000/1000
3.)Ultra mine activates faster than it should. Dropping them directly onto an army surely wasn’t intended to be a valid strategy.
4.)Unique Wraith carriers are slightly underwhelming.
Overall, he’s really cool and well designed. 
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> Sad Joker95 -
>
> I agree with your list except for two things: Pavium’s auto attacks having too much AoE and Rain of Fire damage to buildings. I think these two things are acceptable, warranting no more than a handful of percentage points worth of a nerf. Pavium’s DPS when moving is hilariously bad. Chosen does comparable if not more AoE and can do so while kiting the enemy infantry around.
>
> Rain of Fire is this dude’s only offensive ability if mines get put in line (which I assume they will). Maybe I am in the minority here but I just don’t think Rain deserves a nerf to buildings. I guess I am okay with it either way, it still gets the job done against units.
Oh, hey, Viper.
Long time no talk, lol.
As for your points;
With Pav, he feels a little too overwhelming in the early game. Certainly not as strong as the Jerome’s Mantis used to be, but overwhelming, nonetheless. I get that he moves slow, but his damage output is insane. If you have Grunts, Chops, Brutes, or whatever keeping an opposing force busy, Pav can sit back and absolutely rain down from an ungodly distance. For already having a pretty substantial range, I don’t feel the splash area is fair. Truthfully, I don’t feel this nerf is absolutely needed, but I think it would make him a little easier to Tango with,
As for RoF, I am kind of bias on this one. I don’t like leader abilities doing a lot of base damage. I despised when Inferno could strip a base, and Forge’s Scatter Bomb even does too much base damage, in my opinion. My main reason for this is because it cannot be avoided (other than shields/Pav’s stand); it feels cheap and unfair. And if you ever have the misfortune of playing 3 Pav’s… you’ll lose a base every time the cooldown is up. Again, this isn’t an absolutely needed nerf, but its something I would like to see.
Hey I know this is off topic but I have a question: Is there any Nerf’s or Major Nerf’s hitting Voridus in a upcoming patch or is he fine atm for the team?
Plz no major I love Voridus too <3
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> > 2533274812650916;6:
> > Sad Joker95 -
> >
> > I agree with your list except for two things: Pavium’s auto attacks having too much AoE and Rain of Fire damage to buildings. I think these two things are acceptable, warranting no more than a handful of percentage points worth of a nerf. Pavium’s DPS when moving is hilariously bad. Chosen does comparable if not more AoE and can do so while kiting the enemy infantry around.
> >
> > Rain of Fire is this dude’s only offensive ability if mines get put in line (which I assume they will). Maybe I am in the minority here but I just don’t think Rain deserves a nerf to buildings. I guess I am okay with it either way, it still gets the job done against units.
>
> Oh, hey, Viper.
>
> Long time no talk, lol.
>
> As for your points;
>
> With Pav, he feels a little too overwhelming in the early game. Certainly not as strong as the Jerome’s Mantis used to be, but overwhelming, nonetheless. I get that he moves slow, but his damage output is insane. If you have Grunts, Chops, Brutes, or whatever keeping an opposing force busy, Pav can sit back and absolutely rain down from an ungodly distance. For already having a pretty substantial range, I don’t feel the splash area is fair. Truthfully, I don’t feel this nerf is absolutely needed, but I think it would make him a little easier to Tango with,
>
> As for RoF, I am kind of bias on this one. I don’t like leader abilities doing a lot of base damage. I despised when Inferno could strip a base, and Forge’s Scatter Bomb even does too much base damage, in my opinion. My main reason for this is because it cannot be avoided (other than shields/Pav’s stand); it feels cheap and unfair. And if you ever have the misfortune of playing 3 Pav’s… you’ll lose a base every time the cooldown is up. Again, this isn’t an absolutely needed nerf, but its something I would like to see.
Howdy!
Your post brings up the same exact issues I have we are just going at it from different angles. 3 Pavium’s have a lot of control over a lot of things, yes. They can get vision of a base and shred it. I have a problem with how UNSC has absolutely no counterplay to Maelstrom/Rain of Fire. Even some Banished leaders can’t deal with it.
Maybe a slight cooldown nerf is in order for Rain. Certainly mines. But I think if we hit him with all of these proposed nerfs at once he will just fall off. His hero unit should do good damage with how slow it is, similar to how Hunter Captain should be performing better early than he is. I guess if scouts become more relevant again then Hunter Cap can do work.
Anyway, I think Pavium is in a good spot but he has some things that are pure cheese. Mines being one and the cost of Stand. But everything you described about his leader rings true for Chosen as well. But I can get on board an ever-so-slight nerf to his AoE on auto attacks.
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> Hey I know this is off topic but I have a question: Is there any Nerf’s or Major Nerf’s hitting Voridus in a upcoming patch or is he fine atm for the team?
> Plz no major I love Voridus too <3
I think Voridus is far more acceptable than he was. In fact, the only issues I have with him are his super low cooldown ultimates and the fact that a lot of units tend to act glitched when in his goop, in that they kind of just sit in place and wiggle about, not actually moving.
I’ll just add my voice to the others and say Ultra Mines are pretty powerful for the cooldown they have, also having Pavium’s stand cosy more or last shorter would be great
Wraith Invaders and Lich is surpsingly UP for him. Designator beam at T2 is whacky. Orbital Designator II shouldn’t slow, Combing that with RoF it’s a unavoidable Eradication it feels like to me.
Banished still struggle with flamers a bit and UNSC rabbits are pitiful vs grunts even when the grunts don’t (can’t) get mines. Grunts should do like 5% more damage to flamers (maybe even 8%).
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> > 2533274812650916;3:
> > I suspected his win rates would be fairly neutral.
> >
> > So a couple of things that I believe need changing/addressing:
> >
> > 1. Pavium’s Y ability (hero unit) is pretty absurd. An AoE debuff that has a ridiculous slow. I think if the AoE was dropped a bit it would be more understandable.
> > 2. Ultra Mines do recharge pretty quickly.
> > 3. The Lich needs a DPS buff. In a lot of cases it’s better to put your leader point into something else.
> > 4. Pavium’s Stand could use an increase in cost. Not by a drastic amount, but it’s a really good ability so the price should reflect its usefulness.
> >
> > - I’m indifferent about a damage reduction to Rain of Fire. I can see why others want a nerf but personally I don’t think it warrants much of one. It becomes problematic when paired with any form of CC, however.
> >
> > Those are the things I can think of right now I may edit more later. All in all, I love playing Pavium. Absolutely love it. I would hate to see him become useless so I am avidly against any hard nerfs. Subtle changes to start with and go from there.
>
> No crazy hard nerfs are planned, but the two most common themes I have heard is his hero being so strong early game (really good against inf) while his later game with ultra mines is a bit overwhelming when dropped over units because they come back so fast.
>
> Right now I’m investigating him and seeing what if anything needs to be touched beyond mines, the hero unit, and the cost for Pavium’s stand.
What you said, is the only real op things with the addition of the leaders base heal. Its insane.
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> > 2535458426112390;9:
> > Hey I know this is off topic but I have a question: Is there any Nerf’s or Major Nerf’s hitting Voridus in a upcoming patch or is he fine atm for the team?
> > Plz no major I love Voridus too <3
>
> I think Voridus is far more acceptable than he was. In fact, the only issues I have with him are his super low cooldown ultimates and the fact that a lot of units tend to act glitched when in his goop, in that they kind of just sit in place and wiggle about, not actually moving.
Gotta disagree with you there. I’ll agree that it’s a step in the right direction, and that increased cool downs to his ultimates would help, but his goo is still fundamentally broken.
There are just too many ways to apply it on the battlefield for it to be that powerful. It’s similar to the burn effect that Kinsano and nozzle flamers have except it lasts many times longer, has a greater AoE, and is much more accessible. For how good how heal and 2 ultimates are, I still think his standard goo needs a nerf. If be fine if the Infusion Tech 2 upgrade brought it up to its current values, but it shouldn’t be that strong right off the bat.
Also, his Combat Spoils really needs to be looked at. It’s an incredibly effective eco power.
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> - Mines need an increase to cd and arm time, they damage they do is insane considering you can just drop them on an army. An increase of about 1 second would make it so you can’t just drop these directly on an army and would make things more fair and they should prob increase in cost to 300/300 and then 425/425. - RoF needs a cd increase and a significant decrease in damage to structures. You can literally just get RoF 2 and kill a 5 pad expansion base with little to no army support. It’s pretty stupid. - The hero can use a reduction to the heal rate of its repair drone. I would rather see this leader have its dps and splash radius decrease in exchange for a little speed, but at the very least its splash radius should probably decrease and his Y-ability should not do as much slow. - Lich could use a damage buff, I never buy this power because it sucks. - Pavium’s stand time should be cut in half. (Really this is an invulnerability ability and shouldn’t exist in the first place but w/e). And cost should be more like 500/500 - Burnout effectiveness could be reduced by 15-20% to put him more in line in terms of eco. - Mega Turrets should scale more punishingly in cost.As it currently stands the Pavium vs Shipmaster matchup is unwinnable for the ship. You don’t win early and you won’t break him late, it’s not even remotely balanced. The reason Pavium may look “balanced” in the data is because there are no “good” players that actively use Pavium in 1v1 because Forge and Anders (UNSC with Spartans) are better.
>
> Banished still struggle with flamers a bit and UNSC rabbits are pitiful vs grunts even when the grunts don’t (can’t) get mines. Grunts should do like 5% more damage to flamers (maybe even 8%).
I agree on Paviums Stand buff as he does not have teleport and Please Don’t Shoot me is a better version with quicker CD, very very low cost, and Stops ALL attacks rather than just stucture invulnerabilty.
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> > 2533274792014876;5:
> > > 2533274812650916;3:
> > > I suspected his win rates would be fairly neutral.
> > >
> > > So a couple of things that I believe need changing/addressing:
> > >
> > > 1. Pavium’s Y ability (hero unit) is pretty absurd. An AoE debuff that has a ridiculous slow. I think if the AoE was dropped a bit it would be more understandable.
> > > 2. Ultra Mines do recharge pretty quickly.
> > > 3. The Lich needs a DPS buff. In a lot of cases it’s better to put your leader point into something else.
> > > 4. Pavium’s Stand could use an increase in cost. Not by a drastic amount, but it’s a really good ability so the price should reflect its usefulness.
> > >
> > > - I’m indifferent about a damage reduction to Rain of Fire. I can see why others want a nerf but personally I don’t think it warrants much of one. It becomes problematic when paired with any form of CC, however.
> > >
> > > Those are the things I can think of right now I may edit more later. All in all, I love playing Pavium. Absolutely love it. I would hate to see him become useless so I am avidly against any hard nerfs. Subtle changes to start with and go from there.
> >
> > No crazy hard nerfs are planned, but the two most common themes I have heard is his hero being so strong early game (really good against inf) while his later game with ultra mines is a bit overwhelming when dropped over units because they come back so fast.
> >
> > Right now I’m investigating him and seeing what if anything needs to be touched beyond mines, the hero unit, and the cost for Pavium’s stand.
>
> What you said, is the only real op things with the addition of the leaders base heal. Its insane.
I agree with all of this on Pavium. Especially the part about the mines cost and the overall recharge time of his leader powers. I still can’t believe this leader was released as is; he has the most powerful Y ability of any hero (besides Decimus), that can wipe an entire army if the person playing has half a brain. Not to mention he has a base heal that is unmatched with incredible range to snipe from a distance AND he is literally unkillable in an engagement once he hits tech 3 because by the time you do he has shredded your entire army with just his Y ability.
As for Voridus, I think he would be fine if the slow of goop was reduced/eliminated and the recharge time of his abilities increased. With the amount of good that he can spread having a slow is just insane. Especially with the bug someone else mentioned where Hogs just sit there like idiots in the goo and refuse to move.
However, this warthog movement bug also applies to Serina’s kodiaks which are pretty broken at the moment IMO
I want to simply add on the importance of how ROF in team fights can destroy a base at the 5 minute mark, it is a much needed nerf toward structures. The mines dropped in the middle of an army during a team fight can destroy the whole army in a second…needs to be adjusted. Those are the 2 most important things that make it boring to play against him. I find it funny that Voridus is being mentioned and talked about in a Pavium thread XD
> 2533274812650916;11:
> > 2535458426112390;9:
> > Hey I know this is off topic but I have a question: Is there any Nerf’s or Major Nerf’s hitting Voridus in a upcoming patch or is he fine atm for the team?
> > Plz no major I love Voridus too <3
>
> I think Voridus is far more acceptable than he was. In fact, the only issues I have with him are his super low cooldown ultimates and the fact that a lot of units tend to act glitched when in his goop, in that they kind of just sit in place and wiggle about, not actually moving.
His mine still red bars armies.