I can’t believe I’m even making a thread for this, but this is beyond pathetic.
I JUST RECENTLY lost a Warzone Firefight match… when I should have won? How? Well, because, when I was DESTROYING the Warden with a Hannibal Scorpion, it somehow regenerated it’s entire health… TWICE instantly. I SHOULD have won that match, not lost. Did 343 REALLY consider this was a good idea?
I would accept this if the Watcher was healing it gradually slow, but instantly? How am I supposed to beat an instantly regenerating overpowered bullet sponge?
Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
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> Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
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> > 2533275013794499;2:
> > Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
>
> You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
How is adding strategy stupid all of Halo has had strategy. Like since CE. Throw a frag in that cluster of grunts. Flank those jackals. Aim for the orange part of the hunter. Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
Same.
Exact.
Thing.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think it instantly recharged from the watchers. If it did do that that isn’t right.
I don’t like it either, but you can’t ignore the Watchers or else that happens.
> 2533274862926994;4:
> > 2533275010817669;3:
> > > 2533275013794499;2:
> > > Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
> >
> > You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
>
> How is adding strategy stupid all of Halo has had strategy. Like since CE. Throw a frag in that cluster of grunts. Flank those jackals. Aim for the orange part of the hunter. Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
> Same.
> Exact.
> Thing.
> Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think it instantly recharged from the watchers. If it did do that that isn’t right.
It does instantly recharge.
is that why I ever kill first the watchers
You just have to think of it as a game mechanic. Your strategy needs to account for the various enemy’s abilities.
I’m totally with you, Rebel. The Watchers are the worst enemy type ever to be in a Halo game. And I mean that in an absolute sense, not a relative one. The comments about strategy here fail to realize that the encounters without Prometheans always have multiple ways of taking them on. Notice I didn’t say anything about 343i or Bungie because every single encounter with Covenant, for instance, can be taken on in multiple ways.
With the Prometheans, the most efficient “strategy” is: Crawlers, Watchers, Soldiers, Knights over and over and over. There’s no strategy here, only how effective one can be in taking out certain enemy groups before being overwhelmed. In 5, they don’t have ridiculous ex machina powers like they did in 4, but they still have the lesser ex machina ability to instantly heal their allies. In a mode like Firefight where there’s a whole lot of chaos and bullet sponge Prometheans, it’s sometimes not even possible to get to the Watchers. It’s not the greatest enemy design and the game would have been much better without them.
I hated playing rounds with Knights and Watchers and breathed a sigh of relief when the rounds were heavy with Crawlers or Covenant, no matter how bullet spongey they might have been. Good thing is that 343i realized how awful Prometheans were to fight against in 4 and the changes they made for 5 significantly improved their design. Here’s to hoping that trend continues and Infinite’s Prometheans are better, assuming they’re present in the game. Maybe their design is intentional to sort of mix well with the lore in saying that they were a force to be reckoned with, but that has affected gameplay negatively.
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> > 2533274862926994;4:
> > > 2533275010817669;3:
> > > > 2533275013794499;2:
> > > > Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
> > >
> > > You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
> >
> > How is adding strategy stupid all of Halo has had strategy. Like since CE. Throw a frag in that cluster of grunts. Flank those jackals. Aim for the orange part of the hunter. Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
> > Same.
> > Exact.
> > Thing.
> > Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think it instantly recharged from the watchers. If it did do that that isn’t right.
>
> It does instantly recharge.
Ahhh I am wrong. Thanks for the correction.
So it’s all still down to being an element of strategy built into the game op.
> 2533274862926994;4:
> > 2533275010817669;3:
> > You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
>
> How is adding strategy stupid all of Halo has had strategy. Like since CE. Throw a frag in that cluster of grunts. Flank those jackals. Aim for the orange part of the hunter. Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
> Same.
> Exact.
> Thing.
> Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think it instantly recharged from the watchers. If it did do that that isn’t right.
And how is the instant recharge of health of a bullet sponge the same thing as the gradual recharge of the energy shielding of a regular enemy?
I made this thread specifically because of the Watchers’ ability to instantly heal the Warden. INSTANTLY.
> 2533275010817669;11:
> > 2533274862926994;4:
> > > 2533275010817669;3:
> > > You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
> >
> > How is adding strategy stupid all of Halo has had strategy. Like since CE. Throw a frag in that cluster of grunts. Flank those jackals. Aim for the orange part of the hunter. Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
> > Same.
> > Exact.
> > Thing.
> > Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think it instantly recharged from the watchers. If it did do that that isn’t right.
>
> And how is the instant recharge of health of a bullet sponge the same thing as the gradual recharge of the energy shielding of a regular enemy?
>
> I made this thread specifically because of the Watchers’ ability to instantly heal the Warden. INSTANTLY.
Look I’m not trying to say promethians are great. But it isn’t a ton different than what we have seen in the past. And saying you should have won is just factually inaccurate. I get it man I’ve been there too and lost due to a watcher I didn’t see.
I also get that from a mechanics and enjoyability standpoint how your experience is frustrating but story wise they’re is no real reason that they shouldn’t refresh health immediately.
Should things be improved? Definitely. And it IS better than the promethians of Halo 4.
Should we be be facing the same bullet spong again and again? No. But its not really all that different than what has been seen in the past is all I’m getting at. Fighting the warden can be a bit like facing Tartarus with a score of engineers.
In my opinion it’s all basically the same.
What does op want to see changed for infinite? Just a total removal of watchers? Or maybe watchers less likely to link with warden and dedicated to lesser enemies?
I have a thread in me about target priority is situations like this. Watchers would be high on that list. It seems you’re blaming 343 for your failure to kill the watchers though. That being said I’m not particularly fond of the regenerating health on some bosses.
> 2533274824050480;9:
> …The comments about strategy here fail to realize that the encounters without Prometheans always have multiple ways of taking them on. Notice I didn’t say anything about 343i or Bungie because every single encounter with Covenant, for instance, can be taken on in multiple ways.
>
> With the Prometheans, the most efficient “strategy” is: Crawlers, Watchers, Soldiers, Knights over and over and over. There’s no strategy here, only how effective one can be in taking out certain enemy groups before being overwhelmed. In 5, they don’t have ridiculous ex machina powers like they did in 4, but they still have the lesser ex machina ability to instantly heal their allies. In a mode like Firefight where there’s a whole lot of chaos and bullet sponge Prometheans, it’s sometimes not even possible to get to the Watchers. It’s terrible enemy design and the game would have been much better without them.
>
> I hated playing rounds with Knights and Watchers and breathed a sigh of relief when the rounds were heavy with Crawlers or Covenant, no matter how bullet spongey they might have been. Good thing is that 343i realized how awful Prometheans were to fight against in 4 and the changes they made for 5 were significantly improved their design. Here’s to hoping that trend continues and Infinite’s Prometheans are better, assuming they’re present in the game.
I can agree that the lack of variety in how you need to handle promethian enemies is at best problematic boarding on tedium and at worst a serious design and game planning oversight. However I think a main reason for this is due to the fact that promethian enemies are meant to operate and act as shifting parts of an individual. That is why watchers spawn off of knights. If you think of it this way you could easily compare them to the shield mechanics of elites or better yet to the engineer shield mechanics seen in odst.
I thinkthere could be a little more strategy peppered in to cut down redundancy but I would say that is in many cases less of a mechanics issue and more of a level design issue.
You talk about their ex machina powers like it it’s an unexpected thing but the name promethian literally implies this god like level of power and contrived or not 343 was never hiding what the class of enemy was meant to be. Which is overpowered and sudden/unexpected. So ex machina is kinda right even if it’s the best or rather the preferred technique for enemy creation.
Look I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a huge promethian fan in fact there have been many story elements since the days of odst that I have been disappointed with but I don’t see a point here in talking issue with the mechanics they are the same mechanics since day one (3years ago) and they are the same mechanics as seen in odst really (with the exception of speed) and while I heard complaints about that game the engineer mechanic was never a complaint to top the list.
So if we are going to complain that’s fine I’ll get in line to share mine too… But I just think there should be a solution in mind or it’s just pointless.
I like your final comment what would tuhin change given the chance?
> 2533274862926994;4:
> > 2533275010817669;3:
> > > 2533275013794499;2:
> > > Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
> >
> > You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
>
> How is adding strategy stupid all of Halo has had strategy. Like since CE. Throw a frag in that cluster of grunts. Flank those jackals. Aim for the orange part of the hunter. Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
> Same.
> Exact.
> Thing.
> Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think it instantly recharged from the watchers. If it did do that that isn’t right.
Its recommended to use a Plasma Pistol first? That’s…actually interesting. Anyways, the Warden is meant to be kind of like Alduin from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. He is going to be your doom if you don’t get allies.
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> > 2533274862926994;4:
> > > 2533275010817669;3:
> > > > 2533275013794499;2:
> > > > Kill the watchers and his health doesn’t come back. The watchers have really low health, and they don’t bring his health back automatically. But if you give them enough time they will heal him. That’s why Warzone Firefight is a 8 man team working in tandem. Someone should have killed the watchers. That’s not really 343s fault, but more your team’s fault.
> > >
> > > (Omited for space.)
> >
> > (Omited because I talk too much)
> > Plasma pistol that elite before opening up the ar. But don’t wait long or his Shields recharge.
> > (More words were here)
>
> Its recommended to use a Plasma Pistol first? That’s…actually interesting. Anyways, the Warden is meant to be kind of like Alduin from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. He is going to be your doom if you don’t get allies.
I was saying to plasma pistol elites to pop its shield. I was attempting to draw parallels that seem to have been rejected. Your plan to bring friends is still most effective as warden in a bullet sponge. Emp has little effect unless dealing with energy Shields or vehicles.
That said I think I would be nice to see a greater effect from EMP on promethians as they are basically machines just like the vehicles. Maybe not a full freezing but perhaps a momentary stun effect.
> 2533274862926994;14:
> > 2533274824050480;9:
> > …The comments about strategy here fail to realize that the encounters without Prometheans always have multiple ways of taking them on. Notice I didn’t say anything about 343i or Bungie because every single encounter with Covenant, for instance, can be taken on in multiple ways.
> >
> > With the Prometheans, the most efficient “strategy” is: Crawlers, Watchers, Soldiers, Knights over and over and over. There’s no strategy here, only how effective one can be in taking out certain enemy groups before being overwhelmed. In 5, they don’t have ridiculous ex machina powers like they did in 4, but they still have the lesser ex machina ability to instantly heal their allies. In a mode like Firefight where there’s a whole lot of chaos and bullet sponge Prometheans, it’s sometimes not even possible to get to the Watchers. It’s terrible enemy design and the game would have been much better without them.
> >
> > I hated playing rounds with Knights and Watchers and breathed a sigh of relief when the rounds were heavy with Crawlers or Covenant, no matter how bullet spongey they might have been. Good thing is that 343i realized how awful Prometheans were to fight against in 4 and the changes they made for 5 were significantly improved their design. Here’s to hoping that trend continues and Infinite’s Prometheans are better, assuming they’re present in the game.
>
> I can agree that the lack of variety in how you need to handle promethian enemies is at best problematic boarding on tedium and at worst a serious design and game planning oversight. However I think a main reason for this is due to the fact that promethian enemies are meant to operate and act as shifting parts of an individual. That is why watchers spawn off of knights. If you think of it this way you could easily compare them to the shield mechanics of elites or better yet to the engineer shield mechanics seen in odst.
>
> I thinkthere could be a little more strategy peppered in to cut down redundancy but I would say that is in many cases less of a mechanics issue and more of a level design issue.
>
> You talk about their ex machina powers like it it’s an unexpected thing but the name promethian literally implies this god like level of power and contrived or not 343 was never hiding what the class of enemy was meant to be. Which is overpowered and sudden/unexpected. So ex machina is kinda right even if it’s the best or rather the preferred technique for enemy creation.
>
> Look I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a huge promethian fan in fact there have been many story elements since the days of odst that I have been disappointed with but I don’t see a point here in talking issue with the mechanics they are the same mechanics since day one (3years ago) and they are the same mechanics as seen in odst really (with the exception of speed) and while I heard complaints about that game the engineer mechanic was never a complaint to top the list.
> So if we are going to complain that’s fine I’ll get in line to share mine too… But I just think there should be a solution in mind or it’s just pointless.
> I like your final comment what would tuhin change given the chance?
Hmm, it seems like most people are dissatisfied with how Watchers instantly recharge boss health. Prometheans are already heavy on hit points, so it would make more sense if Watchers were to enter a “repair” phase and slowly heal their allies instead. That way it would be similar to the shield system you mentioned, but would still differentiate Prometheans from Covenant since the Prometheans could lose their ability to “recharge their shields.”
In essence, in relative terms, Covenant would have fast recharge and low health, whereas Prometheans would have slow recharge (from Watchers) and high health. But hey, I’m not a game designer haha.
As a side note, I forgot to mention in my earlier post how Watchers in Mythic Firefight are already bullet sponges, but they’re also able to heal each other and their allies. So that ruins a ton of rounds since it makes it extremely tough to take out even one of them.
"Am I doing something wrong?
…No, It’s the game that is wrong."
Thank you peanut. I needed that laugh.
> 2533274862926994;12:
> > 2533275010817669;11:
> > > 2533274862926994;4:
> > > > 2533275010817669;3:
> > > > You’re right on one part, I admit, but it’s still stupid on 343’s part for doing it like this.
> >
> > And how is the instant recharge of health of a bullet sponge the same thing as the gradual recharge of the energy shielding of a regular enemy?
> >
> > I made this thread specifically because of the Watchers’ ability to instantly heal the Warden. INSTANTLY.
>
> Look I’m not trying to say promethians are great. But it isn’t a ton different than what we have seen in the past. And saying you should have won is just factually inaccurate. I get it man I’ve been there too and lost due to a watcher I didn’t see.
>
> I also get that from a mechanics and enjoyability standpoint how your experience is frustrating but story wise they’re is no real reason that they shouldn’t refresh health immediately.
> Should things be improved? Definitely. And it IS better than the promethians of Halo 4.
> Should we be be facing the same bullet spong again and again? No. But its not really all that different than what has been seen in the past is all I’m getting at. Fighting the warden can be a bit like facing Tartarus with a score of engineers.
> In my opinion it’s all basically the same.
> What does op want to see changed for infinite? Just a total removal of watchers? Or maybe watchers less likely to link with warden and dedicated to lesser enemies?
Can’t really see through your point.
I don’t mean to remove Watchers. That isn’t the point of this conversation. It’s their ability to instantly heal allies, which can be tuned down a simply gradually healing them.
> 2533274880633045;13:
> I have a thread in me about target priority is situations like this. Watchers would be high on that list. It seems you’re blaming 343 for your failure to kill the watchers though. That being said I’m not particularly fond of the regenerating health on some bosses.
I failed to kill the Watchers because I was in a Hannibal Scorpion as the driver. Can’t really do much. AND I’m not blaming 343 for my failure to kill them, but for making their ability to heal allies overpowered. I’d get if only the regular infantry suffered that, but bosses do as well, and it gets super frustrating if a bullet sponge-y enemy gets instantly healed. So, if you’re unequipped to deal with them, you’ll have to pray for anyone else who is.