I have little hope someone influential at 343 will read this post, but I hope I can raise awareness of this specific issue among the fanbase, so they might bring this up more often when discussing the graphics of halo Infinite:
Because they talk about visual fidelity and artstyle in this article: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/infinite-inquiries , I’m hopeful they might change many of the particle effects. (Examples: Plasma Grenade explosions, fire, shield flairs, methane leaks, Ravager firing effects, Pulse Carbine firing effects.) They look like they’re from a different game, and the artstyle of many of the effects we’ve seen just don’t blend well with the “classic” artstyle 343 is targeting. I think I should describe what I’m talking about in greater detail, so people don’t get the wrong idea.
Here are examples of Plasma Grenade explosions in most Halo games:
And here is an example of the plasma grenade explosion in Halo Infinite right now (Pause at 4:00):
Notice the distinct lack of the electrical effect? How electricity is getting replaced by a wispy, magical effect in Infinite?
It looks like something out of Breath of the Wild, not Halo.
Other observations include:
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The Grunt blood mist at 2:22 is too opaque
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The methane at 3:35 is too bright, opaque, and looks more like green fire, than a gas.
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The Fragmentation Grenade at 3:38 has little to no smoke, almost no dirt is thrown into the air, and has too much bright fire that is too opaque.
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The Plasma Battery at 3:38 looks more like a paint explosion, than an electrical plasma explosion.
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The fire at 4:00 is too opaque.
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The smoke at 4:00 is honestly very good in motion, but there is too much of it, the color is a little too light, and is too opaque.
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The Ravager at 5:14 is shooting more of the wispy magic I described in the Plasma Grenade, but it’s red this time.
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The Pulse Carbine at 5:20 is shooting wispy magic.
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The Shade Turret at 6:07 is shooting red wispy magic.
See the pattern? The particle effects in the Infinite demo follow a “high” cartoon artstyle, while most of the rest of the game follows a “very low” cartoon artstyle. Don’t get me wrong, I think these effects look very good on their own, but they clash with the artstyle in the 2018 and 2019 trailers that people liked so much. Another thing to note: The contrast between the cartoon particle effects, and the rest of the game, make the rest of the game look more dull and lifeless than it really is.
Digital Foundry has mentioned the effects quality in their video detailing Halo Infinite’s graphics. I also find them very off-looking, and one of the things that contribute to the game looking ‘flat’.
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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Yes. The graphics are trash. We know.
> 2533274968894951;2:
> Digital Foundry has mentioned the effects quality in their video detailing Halo Infinite’s graphics. I also find them very off-looking, and one of the things that contribute to the game looking ‘flat’.
While they do gloss over it from 16:30 to 16:50, the narrator even admits "I'm not sure what it is." Everyone is so focused on lighting and texturing alone, they don't really talk about the artistic styles clashing outside of the Phantom's overly simplistic model and janky flight characteristics. Because they barely spend 20 seconds of an 18 minute video, talking about such a major issue in almost no detail, I felt it was important to make a thread about this.
I’ve watched the entire Digital Foundry video twice in the last week, and while lighting is very important:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45pfvYX-fxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA0jhM-l7uo
We can also see that lighting is clearly not the only issue making the game look flat. Artistically speaking, they look like they’re from a different game and series, and no amount of lighting can change that.
DF didn’t even talk about guns missing muzzle flashes or muzzle flashes not reflecting on the players arm.
They ignored a lot of stuff
> 2533274887613159;5:
> DF didn’t even talk about guns missing muzzle flashes or muzzle flashes not reflecting on the players arm.
>
> They ignored a lot of stuff
True. Digital Foundry didn’t really pay much attention to anything other than how the sun interacts with the environment.
> 2533274822068856;6:
> > 2533274887613159;5:
> > DF didn’t even talk about guns missing muzzle flashes or muzzle flashes not reflecting on the players arm.
> >
> > They ignored a lot of stuff
>
> True. Digital Foundry didn’t really pay much attention to anything other than how the sun interacts with the environment.
He seems to forget that good textures can look good in shadows too.
Not the smartest tool in the shed.
Guess we are over analysing here. Just because the plasma explosions does not have a lightning effect, does not mean the game does not look like Halo. I think the discussion is not really about the art-direction, but more about how the effects are being presented. I do agree the effects are too opaque and saturated, and if they toned down this a bit I really think we wouldn’t be complaining about it.
I remember on Twitter some day, one of these “famous halo youtubers” started to complain about the ROCKS of the game, that the Halo 4 rocks didn’t look like Halo because the rocks weren’t “classic” or “iconic”. Like, seriously?.. Seems a bit exaggerated.
> 2533274925473364;7:
> > 2533274822068856;6:
> > > 2533274887613159;5:
> > > DF didn’t even talk about guns missing muzzle flashes or muzzle flashes not reflecting on the players arm.
> > >
> > > They ignored a lot of stuff
> >
> > True. Digital Foundry didn’t really pay much attention to anything other than how the sun interacts with the environment.
>
> He seems to forget that good textures can look good in shadows too.
>
> Not the smartest tool in the shed.
Digital Foundry is a company. They’re just trying not to pass off Microsoft. They know what they’re doing when it comes to graphics
> 2533275010793662;8:
> Guess we are over analysing here. Just because the plasma explosions does not have a lightning effect, does not mean the game does not look like Halo. I think the discussion is not really about the art-direction, but more about how the effects are being presented. I do agree the effects are too opaque and saturated, and if they toned down this a bit I really think we wouldn’t be complaining about it.
> I remember on Twitter some day, one of these “famous halo youtubers” started to complain about the ROCKS of the game, that the Halo 4 rocks didn’t look like Halo because the rocks weren’t “classic” or “iconic”. Like, seriously?.. Seems a bit exaggerated.
If you squint your eyes while playing halo 3, then I guess you’re right because that’s what halo infinite looks like
> 2533274925473364;7:
> > 2533274822068856;6:
> > > 2533274887613159;5:
> > > DF didn’t even talk about guns missing muzzle flashes or muzzle flashes not reflecting on the players arm.
> > >
> > > They ignored a lot of stuff
> >
> > True. Digital Foundry didn’t really pay much attention to anything other than how the sun interacts with the environment.
>
> He seems to forget that good textures can look good in shadows too.
>
> Not the smartest tool in the shed.
Digital Foundry did leave a lot of detail out of their analysis. That’s why I think it’s important to focus on something they barely touched on in 2% of their video.
> 2533275010793662;8:
> Guess we are over analysing here. Just because the plasma explosions does not have a lightning effect, does not mean the game does not look like Halo. I think the discussion is not really about the art-direction, but more about how the effects are being presented. I do agree the effects are too opaque and saturated, and if they toned down this a bit I really think we wouldn’t be complaining about it.
> I remember on Twitter some day, one of these “famous halo youtubers” started to complain about the ROCKS of the game, that the Halo 4 rocks didn’t look like Halo because the rocks weren’t “classic” or “iconic”. Like, seriously?.. Seems a bit exaggerated.
This really isn’t exaggerating. The effects, unlike the rocks, have a very cartoon look to them. The rocks do admittedly look artificial to some extent, but that’s because they are on a Halo. They still blend well with the rest of the environment, where the particle effects are very highly stylized in such a way that makes them look like they were initially designed for a game that is not at least somewhat grounded in reality, like Halo has always aspired to. Even the 343 games tried to remain grounded in a singular art style, that aimed to be a little realistic. The effects in the Infinite demo break suspension of disbelief, because they are not in line with the rest of the game’s design philosophy.
I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
> 2533274845291741;13:
> I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
I think going for ‘legacy’ graphics is a mistake. Legacy graphics don’t look good by modern standards and only looked like that back then due to technological limits.
> 2533274845291741;13:
> I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
If you look a little closer, you will see the Plasma Grenade in Halo 2 does have the electrical effect. The progression of plasma effects in the classic Halo art style, very clearly intends plasma effects to look somewhat electrical. The art direction in the classic games all end in effects that look plausible, while the effects in Infinite have more of a “high fantasy” or “high cartoon” art style. It’s distracting from the environment, and causes the rest of the game to look dull in comparison.
> 2533274822068856;15:
> > 2533274845291741;13:
> > I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
>
> If you look a little closer, you will see the Plasma Grenade in Halo 2 does have the electrical effect. The progression of plasma effects in the classic Halo art style, very clearly intends plasma effects to look somewhat electrical. The art direction in the classic games all end in effects that look plausible, while the effects in Infinite have more of a “high fantasy” or “high cartoon” art style. It’s distracting from the environment, and causes the rest of the game to look dull in comparison.
Yeah you’re right, I definitely see the slight electrical effects in Halo 2 now that I’ve taken another look. So I suppose they are going for a pure Halo CE vibe which is a noble goal. But unfortunately by going for this look it does look a little cartoony so I definitely agree with you there. Idk I’m torn (as I am with the entire demo). I think if the graphical presentation in the demo was all around better, then the explosions wouldn’t have mattered so much. But at this point it’s just another grievance to add to the list 
> 2533274925473364;14:
> > 2533274845291741;13:
> > I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
>
> I think going for ‘legacy’ graphics is a mistake. Legacy graphics don’t look good by modern standards and only looked like that back then due to technological limits.
Yeah that’s the real debate and you definitely have a point. Halo CE looked the way it did in a lot of ways due to the tech available as you said so 343 needs to be really careful about what they pick and choose
> 2533274845291741;16:
> > 2533274822068856;15:
> > > 2533274845291741;13:
> > > I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
> >
> > If you look a little closer, you will see the Plasma Grenade in Halo 2 does have the electrical effect. The progression of plasma effects in the classic Halo art style, very clearly intends plasma effects to look somewhat electrical. The art direction in the classic games all end in effects that look plausible, while the effects in Infinite have more of a “high fantasy” or “high cartoon” art style. It’s distracting from the environment, and causes the rest of the game to look dull in comparison.
>
> Yeah you’re right, I definitely see the slight electrical effects in Halo 2 now that I’ve taken another look. So I suppose they are going for a pure Halo CE vibe which is a noble goal. But unfortunately by going for this look it does look a little cartoony so I definitely agree with you there. Idk I’m torn (as I am with the entire demo). I think if the graphical presentation in the demo was all around better, then the explosions wouldn’t have mattered so much. But at this point it’s just another grievance to add to the list
The only reason Halo looked a little flat graphics wise back in the day was due to technological limitations. As soon as those limits lifted Bungie finally managed to go the more detailed route with Halo 3 and Halo: Reach.
To this day Halo: Reach still looks good. And some parts of Halo: Reach actually look visually better when compared to the Halo: Infinite gameplay.
Legacy graphics are legacy for a reason. They are old and don’t suit modern tastes or scale well with modern gaming.
> 2533274925473364;18:
> > 2533274845291741;16:
> > > 2533274822068856;15:
> > > > 2533274845291741;13:
> > > > I actually get what 343 was trying to do with the explosions. Although I’m not the biggest fan of them, they definitely are classic looking especially the plasma explosions. They look just like Halo 1 and 2 plasma explosions and that’s totally what they are going for. Now if it looks good or belongs in a next gen game is the real debate. But I’m surprised by everyone in this thread saying it doesn’t look “Halo”. The plasma grenade explosions never had the electrical effects until Halo 3. Before that it was just clouds of blue smoke and debris. I think this is the least of our concerns.
> > >
> > > If you look a little closer, you will see the Plasma Grenade in Halo 2 does have the electrical effect. The progression of plasma effects in the classic Halo art style, very clearly intends plasma effects to look somewhat electrical. The art direction in the classic games all end in effects that look plausible, while the effects in Infinite have more of a “high fantasy” or “high cartoon” art style. It’s distracting from the environment, and causes the rest of the game to look dull in comparison.
> >
> > Yeah you’re right, I definitely see the slight electrical effects in Halo 2 now that I’ve taken another look. So I suppose they are going for a pure Halo CE vibe which is a noble goal. But unfortunately by going for this look it does look a little cartoony so I definitely agree with you there. Idk I’m torn (as I am with the entire demo). I think if the graphical presentation in the demo was all around better, then the explosions wouldn’t have mattered so much. But at this point it’s just another grievance to add to the list
>
> The only reason Halo looked a little flat graphics wise back in the day was due to technological limitations. As soon as those limits lifted Bungie finally managed to go the more detailed route with Halo 3 and Halo: Reach.
>
> To this day Halo: Reach still looks good. And some parts of Halo: Reach actually look visually better when compared to the Halo: Infinite gameplay.
>
> Legacy graphics are legacy for a reason. They are old and don’t suit modern tastes or scale well with modern gaming.
See, the natural progression of the artstyle in the classic games ends with a mix of Halo 3 and Reach. Halo 3 has incredible lighting, but Reach traded that for higher resolution textures and more geometry. The Xbox 360 could do one or the other, but with the Series X and PC, we don’t have to trade one for the other. 343 should be following what 3 and Reach did as far as art direction goes, because those best represent what the series was designed to look like. As far as coloration goes, sticking with the more vibrant color palette in Halo 3 makes more sense, because the washed-out color palette in Reach was sort of a beta for Destiny, to see how well people would react to it. Halo needs to be its own thing, so too closely following what Bungie did on their road to Destiny, doesn’t make much sense. However, the overly vibrant and cartoonish color palette effects in the Halo Infinite demo don’t look like a natural progression of Halo’s artstyle. Instead, they went too far in the opposite direction of the artstyle used in Halo reach, and look like the natural progression of the artstyle used in Breath of the Wild.
P.S. I was going to make a post like this several hours ago, but the website was redirecting me to an error page when I tried to log in.
