One of the biggest gripes people had with the kilo-5 trilogy was how much hate Parangosky gave Halsey about using clones that she knew would soon die off. It seemed impossible that Parangosky, head of ONI, wouldn’t have known about that already. But now we know that it was Danforth Whitcomb and not Parangosky that was head of ONI section III at the start of the human-covenant war. If Parangosky didn’t rise to power until a couple years later it seems possible to me she would have no idea about the clones.
"In 2531, Parangosky attended a meeting with Rear Admiral Ned Rich and Captain Aaron G. Gibson aboard the UNSC Point of No Return. During this meeting, Colonel Ackerson proposed the SPARTAN-III project, which would produce large numbers of expendable supersoldiers.
“By 2552, Parangosky had risen to rank of admiral and was named the head of the Office of Naval Intelligence. She continued working aboard the Point of No Return, green-lighting some of humanity’s most controversial projects”
She green lighted KIDS to die on suicide missions… Parangosky is a hypocrite. The same crap she gives Halsey can easily be applied to her. Her methods may have been used for humanity’s survival, but that doesn’t really help with the ethics of it.
Parangosky! There is a word I would like to use for her that would probably get me banned on waypoint. She is not a good person. As Dragoth2000 said, Parangosky is a hypocrite that I believe manipulated Serin Osman into antagonizing Halsey. She is one of the gripes I had with the Kilo Five trilogy. In the end all she needed was a scapegoat! for the atrocities ONI committed. Thus by vilifying Halsey to the UNSC and public, Parangosky gets away scot-free for the stuff she did/approved!
Don’t think Osman needed to be manipulated in to hating Halsey as she already had a righteous bone to pick with her.
As for Parangosky, my memory is a bit hazy but didn’t she openly admit that some of the things she had done/approved were outright bad? Something to the tune of “I know i’m going to hell fo the things i’ve done” or something like that? It’s been a while since i’ve read them.
Anyhow, yes, she IS a hypocrite. Its human nature, when dealing with guilt, to point to other people who have done worse things. “See? I’m not a good person but i’m not as bad as HER!” and all that jazz.
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> She green lighted KIDS to die on suicide missions… Parangosky is a hypocrite. The same crap she gives Halsey can easily be applied to her. Her methods may have been used for humanity’s survival, but that doesn’t really help with the ethics of it.
Oh absolutely she’s hypocritical about using kids. However on the issue of cloning the kids, I believe she was sincerely angry at halsey for that and hadn’t known before about it
I think to her there is a difference between training kids to be super soldiers to be sent on suicidal missions (that were survivable, however unlikely it was they actually survived) and creating flash cloned kids to send back to the parents of kidnapped children in a bid to seemingly appease ones conscience.
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> I think to her there is a difference between training kids to be super soldiers to be sent on suicidal missions (that were survivable, however unlikely it was they actually survived) and creating flash cloned kids to send back to the parents of kidnapped children in a bid to seemingly appease ones conscience.
It very well may be just justifying bad writing but it does seem to me that cloning kids is where Parangosky draws the line, whereas she was fine with using kids who could more easily disappear with no explanation
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> > 2533274925892496;2:
> > She green lighted KIDS to die on suicide missions… Parangosky is a hypocrite. The same crap she gives Halsey can easily be applied to her. Her methods may have been used for humanity’s survival, but that doesn’t really help with the ethics of it.
>
>
> Oh absolutely she’s hypocritical about using kids. However on the issue of cloning the kids, I believe she was sincerely angry at halsey for that and hadn’t known before about it
IF someone kills your kid, but if they draw the line at kidnapping children, does this make them a better person or make a difference in how they are? Again… she KILLED kids… full knowledge… It doesn’t make a difference if she draws the line of clones… It makes 0 sense,
Ugh, Kilo-5. If not for my love of Halo, I would have never forced myself to read through that triliogy.
I understand why Halsey is a monster. I mean, she willingly experimented on kids. However, wasn’t ONI and the UNSC brass fully behind the Sparten-II project? Yet Mal and what’s-his-name have nothing but admiration and respect for Parangosky. I don’t get it.
And don’t forget that Mal and company, you know, were instigating a civil war. But Halsey is the only unethical one.
I think it’s perfectly valid to have problems with the clones or war orphans of either project. I just find it sad it took until Veta Lopis in Last Light to give a -Yoink- about the latter while everybody and their dog wanted to jump down Halsey’s throat.
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> > 2533274904397463;5:
> > > 2533274925892496;2:
> > > She green lighted KIDS to die on suicide missions… Parangosky is a hypocrite. The same crap she gives Halsey can easily be applied to her. Her methods may have been used for humanity’s survival, but that doesn’t really help with the ethics of it.
> >
> >
> > Oh absolutely she’s hypocritical about using kids. However on the issue of cloning the kids, I believe she was sincerely angry at halsey for that and hadn’t known before about it
>
>
> IF someone kills your kid, but if they draw the line at kidnapping children, does this make them a better person or make a difference in how they are? Again… she KILLED kids… full knowledge… It doesn’t make a difference if she draws the line of clones… It makes 0 sense,
No it makes sense in context. There were tangible strategic returns on the training and use of highly trained child soldiers. There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious.
Parangosky is angry because the cloning was both cruel and fruitless. ONI is supposed to do the dirty work that needs to be done. There is no room for so called conscious cleansing.
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> I think it’s perfectly valid to have problems with the clones or war orphans of either project. I just find it sad it took until Veta Lopis in Last Light to give a -Yoink- about the latter while everybody and their dog wanted to jump down Halsey’s throat.
Better late than never, i suppose…
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> > 2533274925892496;8:
> > > 2533274904397463;5:
> > > > 2533274925892496;2:
> > > > She green lighted KIDS to die on suicide missions… Parangosky is a hypocrite. The same crap she gives Halsey can easily be applied to her. Her methods may have been used for humanity’s survival, but that doesn’t really help with the ethics of it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh absolutely she’s hypocritical about using kids. However on the issue of cloning the kids, I believe she was sincerely angry at halsey for that and hadn’t known before about it
> >
> >
> > IF someone kills your kid, but if they draw the line at kidnapping children, does this make them a better person or make a difference in how they are? Again… she KILLED kids… full knowledge… It doesn’t make a difference if she draws the line of clones… It makes 0 sense,
>
>
> No it makes sense in context. There were tangible strategic returns on the training and use of highly trained child soldiers. There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious.
>
> Parangosky is angry because the cloning was both cruel and fruitless. ONI is supposed to do the dirty work that needs to be done. There is no room for so called conscious cleansing.
I think you could argue seeing your “child” die is a lot easier on a parent than wondering what happened to them and never knowing. It wasn’t foolproof, but I think it’s questionable to assume Halsey only did it for her benefit.
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> There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious
A number of Spartan-II parents got together due to the similar events of their child’s passing, this group would have likely been substantially larger had their kids all upright disapeared all around the same time.
Now, it’d still have been a relatively small group in proportion, but it would have definitely become a bigger player in innie propoganda.
“They took our kids!” doesn’t have the same bite to it when someome can just say they’re in denial over their child’s death.
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> > 2533274919794518;11:
> > There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious
>
>
> A number of Spartan-II parents got together due to the similar events of their child’s passing, this group would have likely been substantially larger had their kids all upright disapeared all around the same time.
>
> Now, it’d still have been a relatively small group in proportion, but it would have definitely become a bigger player in innie propoganda.
>
> “They took our kids!” doesn’t have the same bite to it when someome can just say they’re in denial over their child’s death.
Exactly, simply taking all the kids would have made the dots WAY easier for the public to connect. Kids don’t just randomly vanish back to back, however people die every day, including kids. This equals more deniability for ONI regarding kidnapping accusations.
I had always assumed Halsey was just trying to give parents closure and keep them from looking for their children, but I could totally see that as watching ONI’s back as well.
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> > > 2533274925892496;8:
> > > > 2533274904397463;5:
> > > > > 2533274925892496;2:
> > > > > She green lighted KIDS to die on suicide missions… Parangosky is a hypocrite. The same crap she gives Halsey can easily be applied to her. Her methods may have been used for humanity’s survival, but that doesn’t really help with the ethics of it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh absolutely she’s hypocritical about using kids. However on the issue of cloning the kids, I believe she was sincerely angry at halsey for that and hadn’t known before about it
> > >
> > >
> > > IF someone kills your kid, but if they draw the line at kidnapping children, does this make them a better person or make a difference in how they are? Again… she KILLED kids… full knowledge… It doesn’t make a difference if she draws the line of clones… It makes 0 sense,
> >
> >
> > No it makes sense in context. There were tangible strategic returns on the training and use of highly trained child soldiers. There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious.
> >
> > Parangosky is angry because the cloning was both cruel and fruitless. ONI is supposed to do the dirty work that needs to be done. There is no room for so called conscious cleansing.
>
>
> I think you could argue seeing your “child” die is a lot easier on a parent than wondering what happened to them and never knowing. It wasn’t foolproof, but I think it’s questionable to assume Halsey only did it for her benefit.
Agreed
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> > 2533274964189700;14:
> > > 2533274919794518;11:
> > > There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious
> >
> >
> > A number of Spartan-II parents got together due to the similar events of their child’s passing, this group would have likely been substantially larger had their kids all upright disapeared all around the same time.
> >
> > Now, it’d still have been a relatively small group in proportion, but it would have definitely become a bigger player in innie propoganda.
> >
> > “They took our kids!” doesn’t have the same bite to it when someome can just say they’re in denial over their child’s death.
>
>
> Exactly, simply taking all the kids would have made the dots WAY easier for the public to connect. Kids don’t just randomly vanish back to back, however people die every day, including kids. This equals more deniability for ONI regarding kidnapping accusations.
>
> I had always assumed Halsey was just trying to give parents closure and keep them from looking for their children, but I could totally see that as watching ONI’s back as well.
Would it though? Maybe in the United States, but across 50+ planets? I bet that would be near impossible to organize. Plus with a population that big, kids probably get snatched everyday.
While i’m not quite sure if the book characters would think like this, you can view the clones thusly:
Halsey (and yes the UNSC brass behind her) created people, children, with the sole purpose of dying horribly from genetic defects. They were not machines, nor were they just “bodies” (seriously, how hard would it have been to stage an accident with a cloned body without a fully formed brain and controll the autopsy?). They were children with feelings, hopes and dreams. And Halsey and co. created them with the express purpose of dying. That’s pre-meditated murder of children right there.With this in mind, is it really that hard to see why Halsey gets the really rough treatment?
What has always bothered me that literally EVERYONE in universe just glosses over that Halsey never could have done any of it alone and without authorization. Yeah, hate the good doctor but don’t forget the slimeballs who backed her every step of the way! >.<
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> > 2533274832335336;15:
> > > 2533274964189700;14:
> > > > 2533274919794518;11:
> > > > There are no strategic returns on the clones, it was purely some misaligned attempt at Halsey easing her conscious
> > >
> > >
> > > A number of Spartan-II parents got together due to the similar events of their child’s passing, this group would have likely been substantially larger had their kids all upright disapeared all around the same time.
> > >
> > > Now, it’d still have been a relatively small group in proportion, but it would have definitely become a bigger player in innie propoganda.
> > >
> > > “They took our kids!” doesn’t have the same bite to it when someome can just say they’re in denial over their child’s death.
> >
> >
> > Exactly, simply taking all the kids would have made the dots WAY easier for the public to connect. Kids don’t just randomly vanish back to back, however people die every day, including kids. This equals more deniability for ONI regarding kidnapping accusations.
> >
> > I had always assumed Halsey was just trying to give parents closure and keep them from looking for their children, but I could totally see that as watching ONI’s back as well.
>
>
> Would it though? Maybe in the United States, but across 50+ planets? I bet that would be near impossible to organize. Plus with a population that big, kids probably get snatched everyday.
Eh, true. Still, I think Halsey did that with the added layer of deniability in mind just in case somebody decided to look into it in the future. Nobody would believe your child was kidnapped and turned into a supersoldier if you have a confirmed death plus a genetically-identical body that proves you wrong.
She probably figured somebody WOULD be that determined, and made the clones to tie up loose ends and deter most parents from even trying.
> 2533274812652989;10:
> I think it’s perfectly valid to have problems with the clones or war orphans of either project. I just find it sad it took until Veta Lopis in Last Light to give a -Yoink- about the latter while everybody and their dog wanted to jump down Halsey’s throat.
For the record, my dog loves Halsey.