Opinion: Port Bloodline // MP Map

I am of the opinion that Bloodline is not only a fantastic looking map, but it is the apex of the Blood Gulch evolution, reworked in truly a masterful way. There are some historical critiques of Blood Gulch in regards to it’s viability as a map in a modern shooter, but I think it’s performance in H2A has debunked that misconception. Building on the progress previously done in Halo 2 classic with Coagulation, 343i made a number of changes that influence key gameplay moments in such a positive way that the map holds it’s own as fun even without considering it’s spiritual connection to the widely recognized GOAT Halo multiplayer map. Honestly because the map is H2A it really doesn’t get the recognition it deserves. Especially with the rumored refocusing of BTB in Infinite, I think the game is perfectly suited to accomodate a version of this map which would also serve as a perfect callback to iconic Halo.

Thoughts?

*Halopedia map article here: Bloodline - Multiplayer map - Halo 2: Anniversary - Halopedia, the Halo wiki

Had to think about the Halo Wars 1 DLC map with the bloody river

> 2533274861263132;2:
> Had to think about the Halo Wars 1 DLC map with the bloody river

Ah the Halo Wars rendition of Blood Gulch! Good call. That’s one of them that’s really dug up from the crypt.

I would like to see an Infinite version of Blood Gulch, one of the best maps ever, and a lot of people could experience it with the free-to-play model.

I dislike the Hornets being on Bloodline, because so much of the game time ends up getting spent on trying to make sure your team isn’t getting rocked by the other teams hornet. I think if they want to recapture the feel of the games of CE Blood Gulch everyone remembers from their basement LAN parties, 343 needs to keep aerial vehicles off the map.

As for the map layout itself, I agree, it’s probably the peak version of Blood Gulch :grinning:

> 2614366390849210;5:
> I dislike the Hornets being on Bloodline, because so much of the game time ends up getting spent on trying to make sure your team isn’t getting rocked by the other teams hornet. I think if they want to recapture the feel of the games of CE Blood Gulch everyone remembers from their basement LAN parties, 343 needs to keep aerial vehicles off the map.
>
> As for the map layout itself, I agree, it’s probably the peak version of Blood Gulch :grinning:

Basically agree (air vehicle balancing vs. the cool/fun factor in Halo is a whole different super fun conversation rip falcon), but I do think replacing the hornet with the original Halo PC/Halo 2 layout of having a banshee spawn at each base would be fine. The map can definitely support aerial combat. Valhalla handles it fine and it’s essentially a mini version.

I wouldn’t mind seeing this map return, but I really want to see a lot of new maps in infinite, not just more remakes.

> 2533274838687111;3:
> > 2533274861263132;2:
> > Had to think about the Halo Wars 1 DLC map with the bloody river
>
> Ah the Halo Wars rendition of Blood Gulch! Good call. That’s one of them that’s really dug up from the crypt.

No, there really is a DLC map called Blood River, separate from Blood Gulch. It’s one of my favorites too.

> 2535471015334583;7:
> I wouldn’t mind seeing this map return, but I really want to see a lot of new maps in infinite, not just more remakes.

Agreed, but one of the things I think they’re trying to do is consolidate what’s come before, distill what’s best in it and then build on from there.

> 2614366390849210;5:
> I dislike the Hornets being on Bloodline, because so much of the game time ends up getting spent on trying to make sure your team isn’t getting rocked by the other teams hornet. I think if they want to recapture the feel of the games of CE Blood Gulch everyone remembers from their basement LAN parties, 343 needs to keep aerial vehicles off the map.
>
> As for the map layout itself, I agree, it’s probably the peak version of Blood Gulch :grinning:

I never found the Hornet :honeybee: on H2A Bloodline to be that big of a deal. There are many ways to take it out from the map’s EMP, Rocket Launcher, even the Battle Rifle and Sniper with teammates takes the vehicle down really quick.

> 2533274866906624;10:
> > 2614366390849210;5:
> > I dislike the Hornets being on Bloodline, because so much of the game time ends up getting spent on trying to make sure your team isn’t getting rocked by the other teams hornet. I think if they want to recapture the feel of the games of CE Blood Gulch everyone remembers from their basement LAN parties, 343 needs to keep aerial vehicles off the map.
> >
> > As for the map layout itself, I agree, it’s probably the peak version of Blood Gulch :grinning:
>
> I never found the Hornet :honeybee: on H2A Bloodline to be that big of a deal. There are many ways to take it out from the map’s EMP, Rocket Launcher, even the Battle Rifle and Sniper with teammates takes the vehicle down really quick.

I think that’s true, however what may seem like a simple conversation about map balancing may actually be a wider conversation about the air vehicle sandbox in Halo. Hornets were a ton of fun but I think in the context of Halo 3, a bit OP probably. Maneuverability, powerful primary cannons and secondary rockets, able to carry two passengers and strong against ground fire. The wasp was pretty cool in Halo 5, kind of like a light hornet but yeah much less powerful. I think they could replace the hornets on Bloodline well.

And then I am always an advocate of the falcon, and it’s return, despite it’s problems in Halo Reach. It just needs to be tuned more. It was far too weak in Halo Reach for it to be worth manning with three people, and the lack of primary fire for the pilot should have been compensated with a stronger side gun but whatever. Anyways an updated Falcon for each base would probably be the best option. Though there will always be a special place in my heart for the inclusion of the banshees into Blood Gulch in the Halo PC version.

Hey, as long as we get a Blood Gulch map, I’m good. Best experiences in Halo were had on that map, and the subsequent remakes.

> 2533274916698000;12:
> Hey, as long as we get a Blood Gulch map, I’m good. Best experiences in Halo were had on that map, and the subsequent remakes.

Very true, and Blood Gulch hasn’t been a proper multiplayer map in a very long time. I’m not really counting Halo 2 Anniversary MP because it’s sort of an anomaly (although I am seeing it get rotated into matchmaking on MCC more which is cool). After Halo 2 they switched over to Valhalla as a sort of modern Blood Gulch update I think, at least it filled the same gameplay niche. Halo 3’s Standoff is a very distant cousin of Blood Gulch, different in many ways but a sort of spiritual successor.

> 2533274838687111;13:
> > 2533274916698000;12:
> > Hey, as long as we get a Blood Gulch map, I’m good. Best experiences in Halo were had on that map, and the subsequent remakes.
>
> Very true, and Blood Gulch hasn’t been a proper multiplayer map in a very long time. I’m not really counting Halo 2 Anniversary MP because it’s sort of an anomaly (although I am seeing it get rotated into matchmaking on MCC more which is cool). After Halo 2 they switched over to Valhalla as a sort of modern Blood Gulch update I think, at least it filled the same gameplay niche. Halo 3’s Standoff is a very distant cousin of Blood Gulch, different in many ways but a sort of spiritual successor.

Doesnt halo reach have a map almost identical to bloodgulch called “hemmorhage”?

> 2535453809720436;14:
> > 2533274838687111;13:
> > > 2533274916698000;12:
> > > Hey, as long as we get a Blood Gulch map, I’m good. Best experiences in Halo were had on that map, and the subsequent remakes.
> >
> > Very true, and Blood Gulch hasn’t been a proper multiplayer map in a very long time. I’m not really counting Halo 2 Anniversary MP because it’s sort of an anomaly (although I am seeing it get rotated into matchmaking on MCC more which is cool). After Halo 2 they switched over to Valhalla as a sort of modern Blood Gulch update I think, at least it filled the same gameplay niche. Halo 3’s Standoff is a very distant cousin of Blood Gulch, different in many ways but a sort of spiritual successor.
>
> Doesnt halo reach have a map almost identical to bloodgulch called “hemmorhage”?

You know what, you’re absolutely correct, I forgot there was an area of Forge World in Reach in which they modeled the terrain to be that of Blood Gulch. The map itself is forged, which is probably why it was slipping my mind, but yes that’s definitely worth an honorable mention. With that said, now that I’m remembering IMO that map brought out all of the worst criticism for a modern Blood Gulch, with the extremely long views that made cross-map casual DMR kills a thing, and good luck trying to get a vehicle to the other base without being aggro’d by every enemy on the map. I think Bloodline fixed a lot of those issues with the revisions, and I also like the return the classic Blood Gulch red aesthetic.