It’s an idea that occurred to me sometime ago. People have complained in the past that spawning weapon REQs tend not to be worth it due to its limited ammo. Well, this would allow all weapon REQs to have infinite ammo. The trade off would be that no vehicles would be allowed.
I have NO illusion that something like this would become a permanent game type, but I wonder if something like this could be done as a weekend special playlist.
Well, at least with 8 people walking around with Answers, you’d never lose again.
I mean infinite ammo doesn’t help too much when everything nearly one shots you anyway. That was the other benefit of vehicles.
(Everyone would also try to be the one stunlocking a boss with black holes and rocket launchers)
> 2533274815605188;1:
> The trade off would be that no vehicles would be allowed.
I don’t think such a tradeoff would be necessary. People seem to think giving req weapons infinite ammo in Warzone Firefight would make them broken, but vehicles already have infinite ammo, and offer much more protection. So even with infinite ammo, weapons still wouldn’t be on par with vehicles. It would certainly help make them viable, though.
> 2533274815605188;1:
> I have NO illusion that something like this would become a permanent game type, but I wonder if something like this could be done as a weekend special playlist.
What they should do, if you ask me, is give Warzone Firefight a refresh with the primary goal of making req weapons viable somehow. Could be giving them infinite ammo, or making them cost much less req energy, or whatever, but it needs a refresh for a lot of reasons.
> 2586218893181855;2:
> Well, at least with 8 people walking around with Answers, you’d never lose again.
I don’t think it would be that overpowered. 8 Answers may have similar or slightly better damage output to 8 heavy vehicles, but even with overshields, almost none of the survivability. Any increase in damage would be offset by people dying more, especially against bosses like Swarmlords. Also the example you chose, the Answer, probably has the single highest DPS of all the req weapons, or at least top 3, but in reality players would be using other weapons which won’t be as effective. So I think it would be fine to give weapons infinite ammo in firefight.
> 2533274904158628;4:
> > 2586218893181855;2:
> > Well, at least with 8 people walking around with Answers, you’d never lose again.
>
> I don’t think it would be that overpowered. 8 Answers may have similar or slightly better damage output to 8 heavy vehicles, but even with overshields, almost none of the survivability. Any increase in damage would be offset by people dying more, especially against bosses like Swarmlords. Also the example you chose, the Answer, probably has the single highest DPS of all the req weapons, or at least top 3, but in reality players would be using other weapons which won’t be as effective. So I think it would be fine to give weapons infinite ammo in firefight.
The fact that people would be using different weapons that may be less effective than the Answer is irrelevant. Infinite ammo makes effectiveness a moot point unless someone’s using a weapon whose primary purpose isn’t to deal lots and lots of damage. And who does that facing bosses (aside from myself)? Also, what you give up in ability to survive when not using a vehicle, you make up for with complete maneuverability and the ability to take full advantage of the terrain for cover.
I won’t lie, though. More people dying more with good weapons that have infinite ammo is something I would gladly welcome. Means I don’t have to use any of my good stuff lol.
> 2586218893181855;5:
> The fact that people would be using different weapons that may be less effective than the Answer is irrelevant. Infinite ammo makes effectiveness a moot point unless someone’s using a weapon whose primary purpose isn’t to deal lots and lots of damage. And who does that facing bosses (aside from myself)?
To an extent yes, although with infinite ammo they would still have different DPS. But personally I’d rather have every req weapon equally viable, instead of almost always totally outclassed by vehicles with just a handful of exceptions, which is how it is currently.
> 2586218893181855;5:
> Also, what you give up in ability to survive when not using a vehicle, you make up for with complete maneuverability and the ability to take full advantage of the terrain for cover.
Gotta have cover whether you’re in a vehicle or on foot but the extra maneuverability would certainly be helpful when bosses are hiding in bases. Though I’m not sure if it would be so helpful as to make it overpowered to give weapons infinite ammo. I guess to some degree, that’s subjective.
> 2586218893181855;5:
> I won’t lie, though. More people dying more with good weapons that have infinite ammo is something I would gladly welcome. Means I don’t have to use any of my good stuff lol.
Maybe not unlimited ammo all the time, but I’ve thought why not refill at least rare quality and lower weapons at req stations just like your normal weapons refill. That way people can’t just pick a legendary req weapon and never run out of ammo and basically solo the entire firefight
> 2533274955766492;7:
> Maybe not unlimited ammo all the time, but I’ve thought why not refill at least rare quality and lower weapons at req stations just like your normal weapons refill. That way people can’t just pick a legendary req weapon and never run out of ammo and basically solo the entire firefight
If one person having infinite ammo in their legendary req weapon was enough to solo the entire thing, then one person having a legendary req vehicle would be enough to solo the entire thing, because vehicles already have infinite ammo, with similar (though usually better) DPS and more protection. Unlimited ammo for req weapons in Warzone Firefight wouldn’t be nearly as broken as people seem to think.
Hmmm… 12 people in Warzone with Nornfangs and unlimited ammo - come at me bro!
The way it should work with req weapons is if you can make it back to a req station you should be able to refill the ammo for some req energy, say half (rounded up on odd numbered reqs). So if a weapon cost 3 of your req energy it would be 2 to refill… Or if it was 6 it would cost 3… If you are doing good enough with your weapon where you haven’t died with it you should be kinda rewarded in a way.
> 2533274815605188;1:
> It’s an idea that occurred to me sometime ago. People have complained in the past that spawning weapon REQs tend not to be worth it due to its limited ammo. Well, this would allow all weapon REQs to have infinite ammo. The trade off would be that no vehicles would be allowed.
>
> I have NO illusion that something like this would become a permanent game type, but I wonder if something like this could be done as a weekend special playlist.
It’d be an interesting idea
> 2533274904158628;8:
> > 2533274955766492;7:
> > Maybe not unlimited ammo all the time, but I’ve thought why not refill at least rare quality and lower weapons at req stations just like your normal weapons refill. That way people can’t just pick a legendary req weapon and never run out of ammo and basically solo the entire firefight
>
> If one person having infinite ammo in their legendary req weapon was enough to solo the entire thing, then one person having a legendary req vehicle would be enough to solo the entire thing, because vehicles already have infinite ammo, with similar (though usually better) DPS and more protection. Unlimited ammo for req weapons in Warzone Firefight wouldn’t be nearly as broken as people seem to think.
I beg to differ, maybe not on mythic but legendary you can. Give me a hannibal scorpion tank, I’ll solo every wave. Give me a phaeton, same story and would wipe every wave. Some legendary vehicle’s could easily solo a legendary firefight. I feel like I could do the same with some legendary req weapons if had unlimited ammo, sure not all of them but some of them is stupid poweful. Like I also said, if there was a mode like that, make it only unlimited to where you have to go back to a station for ammo. Having it just unlimited anywhere would be overpowered.
Like I said only on legendary, that difficulty is lightyears easier than mythic. Mythic difficulty is a whole different story and even with unlimited ammo for legendary reqs would still be hard.
An interesting idea, and one that I think should come to fruition.
> 2533274955766492;12:
> I beg to differ, maybe not on mythic but legendary you can. Give me a hannibal scorpion tank, I’ll solo every wave. Give me a phaeton, same story and would wipe every wave. Some legendary vehicle’s could easily solo a legendary firefight. I feel like I could do the same with some legendary req weapons if had unlimited ammo, sure not all of them but some of them is stupid poweful. Like I also said, if there was a mode like that, make it only unlimited to where you have to go back to a station for ammo. Having it just unlimited anywhere would be overpowered.
>
> Like I said only on legendary, that difficulty is lightyears easier than mythic. Mythic difficulty is a whole different story and even with unlimited ammo for legendary reqs would still be hard.
Even on Heroic there have been many instances where we failed because I was the only one dishing out any significant damage, and in some cases I was in a Hannibal Scorpion when it happened. Maybe I’m just bad, though.
I think that the req cost of weapons should go down in general to get people calling them in more often, Especially on earlier waves. We need a way to make req weapons more viable without making them overpowered so why not just increase the ammo count instead of doing something as drastic as making it unlimited.
> 2535449207651405;15:
> I think that the req cost of weapons should go down in general to get people calling them in more often, Especially on earlier waves. We need a way to make req weapons more viable without making them overpowered so why not just increase the ammo count instead of doing something as drastic as making it unlimited.
Your suggestion would at least be a step in the right direction. The energy costs for reqs were originally balanced for PvP and then simply ported over to Warzone Firefight without getting their own separate balancing for a PvE environment, so lowering their energy costs and/or giving them more ammo would help.
However I disagree with the notion that giving them unlimited ammo in Warzone Firefight would be drastic. You are asserting that weapons would be overpowered in Warzone Firefight if given unlimited ammo. On the contrary, I think giving them infinite ammo might not even be enough to make them on par with vehicles, which already have unlimited ammo and additionally offer more protection.
After all, when your true enemy isn’t other players or even the bullet sponge bosses, but the time limit, then the only thing that matters in reqs is sheer DPS. So with that in mind, are there any req weapons that could out-DPS a vehicle at the same or lower req cost, if given unlimited ammo? Certainly very few, if any.
> 2533274904158628;16:
> > 2535449207651405;15:
> > I think that the req cost of weapons should go down in general to get people calling them in more often, Especially on earlier waves. We need a way to make req weapons more viable without making them overpowered so why not just increase the ammo count instead of doing something as drastic as making it unlimited.
>
> Your suggestion would at least be a step in the right direction. The energy costs for reqs were originally balanced for PvP and then simply ported over to Warzone Firefight without getting their own separate balancing for a PvE environment, so lowering their energy costs and/or giving them more ammo would help.
>
> However I disagree with the notion that giving them unlimited ammo in Warzone Firefight would be drastic. You are asserting that weapons would be overpowered in Warzone Firefight if given unlimited ammo. On the contrary, I think giving them infinite ammo might not even be enough to make them on par with vehicles, which already have unlimited ammo and additionally offer more protection.
>
> After all, when your true enemy isn’t other players or even the bullet sponge bosses, but the time limit, then the only thing that matters in reqs is sheer DPS. So with that in mind, are there any req weapons that could out-DPS a vehicle at the same or lower req cost, if given unlimited ammo? Certainly very few, if any.
There are two reasons why I think that giving weapons more or unlimited ammo and lowering the req cost would tip the scales all the way to making them equal to vehicles if not better: if the req costs were lover, players would be encouraged to get them because as we all know, A rocket launcher is more effective then a ghost in most situations early and late game. Also, many game objectives are to defend bases and if all the players were in vehicles, the only thing they could do to help would be to kill the a.i. off spawn but that would be ineficcient because players can not be in two places at once, and a.i. spawns are randomised. The only definite place the a.i. would be is the base do defend which brings us back to the problem of getting line of sight into the base or getting the vehicles in. Without Spartans to contest, the wave would almost be a certain failure, especially on later waves like wave 3 and 4 where a spartan with loadout weapons can’t defend the base alone. That is why people call in weapons rather then vehicles in those waves.
Secondly, as other people have mentioned in this thread, certain weapons would be very overpowered if not on the borderline of cheating with unlimited ammo (think answer, selene’s lance/engame, gavel, and ad victoriam) Especially with damage boosts. The elephant in the room for this entire thread is survivability but I think most people are forgetting overshield. The only drawback I see with this is req cost, but with lower req costs for weapons, that wouldn’t be much of a problem if you don’t spam or stack.
This is why I think simply lowering the req cost and doubling the reserve ammo would make weapons as powerful as is and encourage players to call them in more often early game and late game.
Also, How would weapon capacity be increased for energy weapons if their maximum charge is already 100%?
If that ever happened I would used the Prophets Bane all the time. I think it’s worth giving it a shot.
> 2535449207651405;17:
> There are two reasons why I think that giving weapons more or unlimited ammo and lowering the req cost would tip the scales all the way to making them equal to vehicles if not better: if the req costs were lover, players would be encouraged to get them because as we all know, A rocket launcher is more effective then a ghost in most situations early and late game. Also, many game objectives are to defend bases and if all the players were in vehicles, the only thing they could do to help would be to kill the a.i. off spawn but that would be ineficcient because players can not be in two places at once, and a.i. spawns are randomised. The only definite place the a.i. would be is the base do defend which brings us back to the problem of getting line of sight into the base or getting the vehicles in. Without Spartans to contest, the wave would almost be a certain failure, especially on later waves like wave 3 and 4 where a spartan with loadout weapons can’t defend the base alone. That is why people call in weapons rather then vehicles in those waves.
That works for me. They should have had different req energy costs for PvE to begin with, so I’d be on board with that. As for defending bases, usually we get past that round when most people are in vehicles but I do think it’s important for weapons to be viable one way or another, if there are going to be any rounds where players need to go in buildings.
> 2535449207651405;17:
> Secondly, as other people have mentioned in this thread, certain weapons would be very overpowered if not on the borderline of cheating with unlimited ammo (think answer, selene’s lance/engame, gavel, and ad victoriam)
Not sure if I agree so much with this part. Endgame, Selene’s Lance, and Ad Victoriam are level 5 reqs. This means we can compare them to such level 5 vehicles as the Vespin rocket hog, standard Banshee, standard Mantis, Oni Wasp, Wraith and anti-air Wraith. I think it would be fine. Taking into account the time it takes to reload the Ad Victoriam, I’m pretty sure those Vespin hogs can fire off more rockets over a given amount of time, anyway. The Splaser variants might be able to out-DPS vehicles of a similar req level, but considering the cooldown time between shots, I doubt it would be to the point of being drastically overpowered.
The Answer is a level 6 req. For DPS it would be competing with level 6 vehicles which include the Temple and Ultra Wraith, Scorpion, gauss hog, and Hannibal Wasp. Seems to me like those vehicles could dish out a similar amount of damage to an Answer when factoring in reload time.
Tartarus’ Gavel is a level 7 req, so it’s competing with the Oni Scorpion, Phaeton, Oni and Hannibal Mantis, Temple and Ultra Banshee. All of those things can deal tons of damage just like a Tartarus’ Gavel, especially that Ultra Banshee with its triple-exploding fast-recharging bombs. Not to mention the Gavel is a close-range weapon which means it would be more dangerous to use anyway.
> 2535449207651405;17:
> Especially with damage boosts. The elephant in the room for this entire thread is survivability but I think most people are forgetting overshield. The only drawback I see with this is req cost, but with lower req costs for weapons, that wouldn’t be much of a problem if you don’t spam or stack.
Overshield helps but still isn’t as much protection as being in a vehicle, and a damage boost can be used with vehicles as well as weapons.
> 2535449207651405;17:
> Also, How would weapon capacity be increased for energy weapons if their maximum charge is already 100%?
I guess make it 200%?
> 2535427206366030;18:
> If that ever happened I would used the Prophets Bane all the time. I think it’s worth giving it a shot.
Yeah, it would be lovely if the Prophets’ Bane was actually useful in firefight
Eh- no, man. That wouldn’t work. Fun yes, but at the most only temporarily. I think a better solution in the realm of what you said would be to allow REQ weapons to have a butt ton more ammo, or for them to be unlimited for the one who spawned it. Maybe even once the player who spawned it died, it could either be dropped with full ammo, or depleted based on how much they shot, or empty completely (using standard ammo count as a base of measure.)