> 2533274885506317;10:
> Look people let me just make it simple the motion tracker in the second flight is precisely how it’s always been in halo traditionally and that’s what we wanted. If you want no radar go back to modern warfare and stop trying to turn this game into something it’s not. Motion tracker has always been a staple in this game. Gameplay wise and even lore wise which doesn’t really matter but it’s still there.
Omg I couldn’t believe what I was reading for a moment. So many people trying to change how the radar has always worked since halo 1. This community is really gone and changed over the years. The worst aspect of fps shooter starting to seep into a lot of staple things in halo lol
> 2533274933770910;19:
> > 2533274926527272;18:
> > That’s just not true. How hard do you think it is for new players to use? It’s literally just dots representing a player relative to you; red enemy, yellow friend.
>
> This is not about the difficulty of reading it. There is lot more going on in terms of mechanics than just the dots on the radar. The radar will always benefit the more experienced players who have the map knowledge on their side.
At first, maybe, but veteran players will have an advantage with map knowledge with or without the radar. Mastering the maps is part of the skill gaps, and effectively incorporating radar use is part of that gap. Unless they’re completely new to FPS, it really isn’t going to take that long to get the feel of it. I’d also argue that map knowledgeable veterans will have an even bigger advantage without the radar.
> And this is assuming that the casual players even use the radar because some of them won’t use it.
I’m not really sure what you’re basing this assumption on.
> > 2533274926527272;18:
> > Losing that ability to know where enemies are will only make for a more frustrating experience for new players, for the reasons I described above.
>
> Why would enemy players not knowing where you are be frustrating? If I were a new player in any FPS game, I would not want the veteran players to know my location because it removes the only advantage I might have which is surprise.
>
> The new players will be frustrated when they cannot effectively flank the more experienced players, when they are lured to a trap with the radar, or when they are killed with grenade spam which is directed by the radar information.
>
> Combined with map knowledge of a veteran player, there is not much a new player can do with the current radar. I don’t think the current radar benefits casual players at all if they are going against more experienced Halo players. It will only make playing harder for them.
I said you not knowing where they are would be frustrating, not the reverse. It’s frustrating because it places too much emphasis on who found who first during engagements. If someone catches you from behind, especially with the current fast TTKs, you’re f**ked. You are moreover much more limited in your ability to prepare for an engagement, or even decide whether to engage or not. It’s better in the long run for new players to be able to plan how they approach a fight rather than having to rely on surprise all the time.
And again, map knowledge will give a veteran player an advantage with or without the radar. You’re also conflating casual players and new players. Plenty of veterans, perhaps even the majority, are casual players. And by and large, the traditional radar is preferable for their style of play.
> 2533274933770910;4:
> > 2533274801319443;2:
> > A combination of longer range sprint only radar combined with a shorter range normal radar I feel would be a good compromise.
> >
> > Some people want larger radar. Some want none.
> >
> > For the casual player playing with 3 other randoms, having a radar is definitely something worthwhile when versing a co-operative team.
>
> Frankly, I don’t think the casual players look the radar that much, if at all. It took many months before my casual player brother even started looking at the minimap in Warzone.
>
> It is more likely that the experienced players will use the radar against the casual players. And the game does not tell them they got killed because of the radar.
I think I classify anyone going into social slayer on their own as a “casual player”.
It sucks playing social slayer with no radar and a team that isn’t talking. You constantly get wrecked if the other team is calling your position out and there is literally nothing you can do to counter this.
The only thing I’ll admit is that now that you can see your team mates through the walls that this point of view is less relevant as you can see the direction they face as they die etc.
Show Running
Show Shooting
Show Melee
Show Jumping
Show Jump Crouch
Show Sliding
Show Activating Equipment
Show Throwing Grenade
Show Vehicle Moving
Show High/Sky-jacking
Is this not enough?
Keep decent stealth options off radar.
Crouching
Walking
Reloading
Low jump to clamber👎
Assassinations
On top of radar we now have the mark/ping system as well as the equipment threat sensor and a system that highlights players even if they are trying to hide/sneak in shadowy areas. There’s even glint on every scoped weapon now Battle Rifle, Commando, etc. None of these were in halo before with the old radar, save promethean vision. With all these systems to find opponents its just one short step away from just having the outline system highlighting every player at all times anyway.
How many more crutches are needed? Wheres the challenge of cat and mouse when the cat has every advantage? Where’s the balance?
We’re just asking for walking to be considered a stealth movement. You still have to crouch behind most cover just to stay hidden so the maps are also working against stealth players too. I would prefer jumping and sliding be off radar to but I don’t want to but to greedy…
That flags in CTF even glow now! There’s even a mark if you sprint while carrying it. Whats next highlighting people holding power weapons?
That’s what no radar modes is for. If there is a radar on the screen to begin with, it needs to be something you can rely on. Which means it needs to be able to pick up common movement, not just sprinting or shooting.
> 2533274885506317;29:
> > 2533274933770910;25:
> > > 2533274885506317;23:
> > > Made the players think when to shoot? Dude please stop talking I am almost embarrassed for you even reading that
> >
> > You are not really engaging with the main argument with that.
> >
> > So far your arguments for keeping the legacy radar are: 1) It is traditional 2) The new motion tracker would somehow make Halo more like Call of Duty, whilst ignoring the fact that it is how everyone will play Halo Infinite in ranked modes.
> >
> > If those are the arguments for keeping the current legacy radar, then I would quickly remove it and replace it with the radar from the first flight. For gameplay flow and accessibility reasons, the new radar is superior in my opinion.
>
> Well you are in a very small minority with that opinion. Go play COD!. Halo has always been this way and that’s the way it should be. The community has spoken!. The feedback 343 got about this subject should tell you that point blank. I respect your opinion but its just 1 opinion in a very small minority.
I am not wrong about the radar just because I happen to be in the minority. You are not really convincing me about the merits of the legacy radar by making statements like that.
And I don’t play COD, I can just play Halo Infinite in the ranked mode without the game hindering traditional radar. What you consider as a core part of Halo and tradition, I won’t even see in Halo Infinite.
If they keep the current radar for the social mode, I do think that would be a shame because the game worked better with the new radar. I think it made the game more fun. The worst part is that we did not get to test the new radar in this flight.
> At first, maybe, but veteran players will have an advantage with map knowledge with or without the radar. Mastering the maps is part of the skill gaps, and effectively incorporating radar use is part of that gap. Unless they’re completely new to FPS, it really isn’t going to take that long to get the feel of it. I’d also argue that map knowledgeable veterans will have an even bigger advantage without the radar.
This right here, I agree! We do realise matchmaking exists? By the time a newcomer encounters Veterans abusing the radar and map knwoledge you should have leaned how to use it. The game gives you the time to learn and adjust to its mechaniks. Wich makes it interesting for new players.
I also agree that it would be more frustrating to not know where the enemys are. Yes the enemys also know your location. But a Team of 2 aint gonna crouch against you (the momet a ret dot appears they propebly stop running aswell. wich would be bad with the old radar but not matter as much with the current). You can see how many enemys are aprouching and from where. Now you can plan. Retreat to a friend to even the odds. Better position with equipment that can give you an advantage?
Yes a new player would have to learn the tracker.
But after that its the best for the gameplay and all the players.
This whole new player against veteran argument falls apart when you account matchmaking in anyway.
After reading all these comments, they really just need to make the radar bigger to 25m. Hopefully that will feel better and fix most of the issues we are discussing.
I am still on the side of being shown when walking. It the first flight it was really hard to find anyone on the radar because the radar was small and everyone was just walking. Not running as it gave you away and by time you found someone on the radar shooting. You were already too close.
There should be some tuning where if you are walking full speed you are shown on the radar. However, if you get it down right and walk more slowly and not crouched you don’t show up on the radar.
> 2533274933770910;4:
> > 2533274801319443;2:
> > A combination of longer range sprint only radar combined with a shorter range normal radar I feel would be a good compromise.
> >
> > Some people want larger radar. Some want none.
> >
> > For the casual player playing with 3 other randoms, having a radar is definitely something worthwhile when versing a co-operative team.
>
> Frankly, I don’t think the casual players look the radar that much, if at all. It took many months before my casual player brother even started looking at the minimap in Warzone.
>
> It is more likely that the experienced players will use the radar against the casual players. And the game does not tell them they got killed because of the radar.
Eh the issue is that you can still be an experienced player and play with randoms
> 2533275009973021;17:
> > 2533274926527272;16:
> > Forcing people to rely more on sensory cues and adding more uncertainty/tension only serve to make the game sweatier, which most people don’t want, especially in social playlists. If they wanna use the first flight radar for ranked or competitive playlists, have at it. Many of them already don’t have radar at all. But with the game already having quick TKKs and seemingly lower aim assist, not having a casual friendly radar in social will make a lot of people frustrated real fast. Implementing a radar that forces everyone to take a stealth approach, coupled with the game’s current TTK, will mean that the vast majority of engagements will come down to who saw who first, which really isn’t meant to be the dominant factor in Halo MP.
>
> Halo as a game has never been a game that is meant to rely on stealth. While stealth has always been a important aspect of the game the “dance” that often happens when two Spartans are in a firefight has been one of the games largest appeals in my opinion. It allows for players who may not have had the stealth advantage to have a chance to still win the fight, even when they may be outnumbered.
>
> The issue with the newer radar in my opinion is that it eliminates some of that “dance” that makes Halo, well Halo.
The “dance” being the key point. It is what makes Halo what it is. In the competitive scene no one knows this better than Pistola. Dude can dance around everywhere.
Having to be constantly spinning around like a cat on a ceiling fan to check every angle is physically dizzying for me to do for a 60 minute play session.
If we go with the sprint/shoot radar, then it need to be effective at a longer range and foot step noises need to be louder. As it is, the radar is fairly useless in the “18 meter” mode. In the flights and in Halo 5, by the time I see the ping off an enemy on the edge of my radar it is often too late to react to sword and hammer threats, or I already started taking shots before they are within the “18 meter” zone and I am forced to retreat which pretty much is a guaranteed death in most areas.
With the walk and sprint speeds so close the incentive to sprint is minimal. That leaves most encounters firing only, which at that point gives you just enough data to know where the enemy is before you die.
> 2533274933770910;45:
> > 2533274885506317;29:
> > > 2533274933770910;25:
> > > > 2533274885506317;23:
> > > > Made the players think when to shoot? Dude please stop talking I am almost embarrassed for you even reading that
> > >
> > > You are not really engaging with the main argument with that.
> > >
> > > So far your arguments for keeping the legacy radar are: 1) It is traditional 2) The new motion tracker would somehow make Halo more like Call of Duty, whilst ignoring the fact that it is how everyone will play Halo Infinite in ranked modes.
> > >
> > > If those are the arguments for keeping the current legacy radar, then I would quickly remove it and replace it with the radar from the first flight. For gameplay flow and accessibility reasons, the new radar is superior in my opinion.
> >
> > Well you are in a very small minority with that opinion. Go play COD!. Halo has always been this way and that’s the way it should be. The community has spoken!. The feedback 343 got about this subject should tell you that point blank. I respect your opinion but its just 1 opinion in a very small minority.
>
> I am not wrong about the radar just because I happen to be in the minority. You are not really convincing me about the merits of the legacy radar by making statements like that.
>
> And I don’t play COD, I can just play Halo Infinite in the ranked mode without the game hindering traditional radar. What you consider as a core part of Halo and tradition, I won’t even see in Halo Infinite.
>
> If they keep the current radar for the social mode, I do think that would be a shame because the game worked better with the new radar. I think it made the game more fun. The worst part is that we did not get to test the new radar in this flight.
Your not wrong? That’s your opinion now run along honestly you are beyond tedious.
> 2533274923428997;5:
> I think the Radar from the first flight had a unique advantage in the fact that it didnt punish moving around. You could make flanks and move around without entirely giving your position away, which not only allowed for more stealthy gameplay, but it also disincentivized camping. You don’t need to sit still if you don’t show up on the radar while strafing. it promotes movement!
the issue with it is that you have no means to really know if someone is neary you because you cant hear them, if you could hear them walk, then motion tracker not picking them up would make sense
> 2533274885506317;29:
> > 2533274933770910;25:
> > > 2533274885506317;23:
> > > Made the players think when to shoot? Dude please stop talking I am almost embarrassed for you even reading that
> >
> > You are not really engaging with the main argument with that.
> >
> > So far your arguments for keeping the legacy radar are: 1) It is traditional 2) The new motion tracker would somehow make Halo more like Call of Duty, whilst ignoring the fact that it is how everyone will play Halo Infinite in ranked modes.
> >
> > If those are the arguments for keeping the current legacy radar, then I would quickly remove it and replace it with the radar from the first flight. For gameplay flow and accessibility reasons, the new radar is superior in my opinion.
>
> Well you are in a very small minority with that opinion. Go play COD!. Halo has always been this way and that’s the way it should be. The community has spoken!. The feedback 343 got about this subject should tell you that point blank. I respect your opinion but its just 1 opinion in a very small minority.
Your argument is asinine, just because it’s always been a certain way(which is not true) doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make the game better. By your logic, we should remove the BR, commando, sprinting, grapple, repulsor, dynamo and spike grenades, energy sword, grav hammer, and anything else that wasn’t in Halo 1. Oh and lets not forget, with your shortsighted view, we’d never have online multiplayer since Halo 1 didn’t have that.
Now admittedly, I was and still am a proponent of ‘if-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it’. But in this case, 343i fixed an issue that many of us hadn’t realized existed. The new radar helps curb camping, allows for more flanking opportunities, helps prepare casual players to compete in ranked(where radar is not present in many iterations), doesn’t slow the game down, and provides for an overall better experience.
> 2533274806836293;52:
> > 2533274885506317;29:
> > > 2533274933770910;25:
> > > > 2533274885506317;23:
> > > > Made the players think when to shoot? Dude please stop talking I am almost embarrassed for you even reading that
> > >
> > > You are not really engaging with the main argument with that.
> > >
> > > So far your arguments for keeping the legacy radar are: 1) It is traditional 2) The new motion tracker would somehow make Halo more like Call of Duty, whilst ignoring the fact that it is how everyone will play Halo Infinite in ranked modes.
> > >
> > > If those are the arguments for keeping the current legacy radar, then I would quickly remove it and replace it with the radar from the first flight. For gameplay flow and accessibility reasons, the new radar is superior in my opinion.
> >
> > Well you are in a very small minority with that opinion. Go play COD!. Halo has always been this way and that’s the way it should be. The community has spoken!. The feedback 343 got about this subject should tell you that point blank. I respect your opinion but its just 1 opinion in a very small minority.
>
> Your argument is asinine, just because it’s always been a certain way(which is not true) doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make the game better. By your logic, we should remove the BR, commando, sprinting, grapple, repulsor, dynamo and spike grenades, energy sword, grav hammer, and anything else that wasn’t in Halo 1. Oh and lets not forget, with your shortsighted view, we’d never have online multiplayer since Halo 1 didn’t have that.
>
> Now admittedly, I was and still am a proponent of ‘if-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it’. But in this case, 343i fixed an issue that many of us hadn’t realized existed. The new radar helps curb camping, allows for more flanking opportunities, helps prepare casual players to compete in ranked(where radar is not present in many iterations), doesn’t slow the game down, and provides for an overall better experience.
This helps curb camping what do you base this off exactly? because anytime I’ve seen a radar like that it only helped camping. Players were too tetchy about moving around the map. And we had the traditional radar in the flight and it didn’t slow gameplay down and never has in halo. Camping has never been much of an issue either.
Why does Ont9 think that he’s the king of Halo? He’s even using the royal ‘we’. Ont9, you’re not any other player’s representative, no one elected you to speak for them so relax, you need to chill. If the conversation is tedious then why are you participating. OP just wanted a discussion of the merits of the threat tracker, you’re behaving as if this forum decides what gets in the game and your job depends on it staying the same.
Both trackers are fine and have different impacts on gameplay. I didn’t even notice the change during the first flight, I just assumed it was the same as before and behaved accordingly and the threat tracker worked just fine. The classic one this time was fine too. Neither one breaks the game, they’re just another tool of many to locate enemies. I think the first test with the threat tracker is invalid because most people were probably like me and didn’t realize the change so their behavior didn’t change. With team play you should be relying on your teammates to spot enemies and cover your flanks anyway.
> 2533274806836293;52:
> > 2533274885506317;29:
> > > 2533274933770910;25:
> > > > 2533274885506317;23:
> > > > Made the players think when to shoot? Dude please stop talking I am almost embarrassed for you even reading that
> > >
> > > You are not really engaging with the main argument with that.
> > >
> > > So far your arguments for keeping the legacy radar are: 1) It is traditional 2) The new motion tracker would somehow make Halo more like Call of Duty, whilst ignoring the fact that it is how everyone will play Halo Infinite in ranked modes.
> > >
> > > If those are the arguments for keeping the current legacy radar, then I would quickly remove it and replace it with the radar from the first flight. For gameplay flow and accessibility reasons, the new radar is superior in my opinion.
> >
> > Well you are in a very small minority with that opinion. Go play COD!. Halo has always been this way and that’s the way it should be. The community has spoken!. The feedback 343 got about this subject should tell you that point blank. I respect your opinion but its just 1 opinion in a very small minority.
>
> Your argument is asinine, just because it’s always been a certain way(which is not true) doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make the game better. By your logic, we should remove the BR, commando, sprinting, grapple, repulsor, dynamo and spike grenades, energy sword, grav hammer, and anything else that wasn’t in Halo 1. Oh and lets not forget, with your shortsighted view, we’d never have online multiplayer since Halo 1 didn’t have that.
>
> Now admittedly, I was and still am a proponent of ‘if-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it’. But in this case, 343i fixed an issue that many of us hadn’t realized existed. The new radar helps curb camping, allows for more flanking opportunities, helps prepare casual players to compete in ranked(where radar is not present in many iterations), doesn’t slow the game down, and provides for an overall better experience.
Camping was never a problem in halo at all before? Most times you are able to counter it and get the camper out with the sandbox wtf. Where are yall getting these issues raised from how the radar has always worked? This isn’t call of duty where you have to be actively looking around trying to hear footsteps.
