DIsclaimer: There is a slight rant in here so proceed on your own account.
SO this ties into the halo community. I just watched need for speed again and the beginning it shows the main guy who sets up a underground race. and being an owner of a mclaren P1 now ( though overpriced but it was the color i wanted) i can relate it to halo in a way/.
In the halo community a lot of people have opinions but they also tend to cross there world of opinion to you should should do this and that with your game kinda as if they were the once who made the game themselves.
Well in the movie the opening scene it shows a fan calling in to say he doesn’t think a redneck trust fund kid should be in the race, I’m assuming they are speaking about Dino Brewster( Dominic Cooper) the movies antagonist. And the Monarch shuts the guy up and asked him if he ever raced a race car in his life, then proceeds to state this is his race he created it and he alone decides who gets to participate in it.
And here is where Fans tend to cross the line yes we are entitled to an opinion and even give feedback that’s great, good for business but we shouldn’t be telling game developers that a game should be this way and it has to be that way because in the end its there game not yours that they are creating until you as a fan actually create a video game the actual final copy of a game is solely decided by the developers and if it fails it fails that’s there problem not yours because its not your company that feels the burden.
And please no die hard fans should be made fun of in here either because if you think about it i have respect for a full grown man who likes to spend tons of money on collectibles. For one he is investing in a future, 2 he obviously has enough money to support his life and his hobbies, and three he gives no F*** about what others truly think of him, to me thats a bad -Yoink- no matter how you spin it. usually its the broke guy who decides to hate on the gamer who can afford the finer things in life. also i was called a D bag for going and picking up Forza horizon 2 In a Lamborghini aventador because apperantly i shouldn be driving that car to an area where most peeople will never afford that car( i assume this guy thinks i giv a crap what car some peopI know a long rant that makes no sense but hey who cares its halo and if you complain about this rant no one put a gun to your head to read it you did that all on your own and have only yu to blame not the thread or me.
I pay $60 for this game. That is what you keep on forgetting. They desperately want my money. I’m telling them how to get it.
If it fails, it fails after I put $60 into it. I do in fact feel a $60 burden.
That is all.
A lot of folks ask for 343i to listen and communicate to them…
However, they do not really want communication, they want compliance.
The sooner that fans understand that they did not buy MS’s IP for $60 the better… MS wants your money, sure. But 343i did not sign away their creative freedom to those that have purchased Halo in the past. They will make what they want to make. We can offer respectful feedback (not demands) and hope that they create a game that resonates with the vast majority of fans.
> 2533274792065063;3:
> A lot of folks ask for 343i to listen and communicate to them…
>
> However, they do not really want communication, they want compliance.
>
> The sooner that fans understand that they did not buy MS’s IP for $60 the better… MS wants your money, sure. But 343i did not sign away their creative freedom to those that have purchased Halo in the past. They will make what they want to make. We can offer respectful feedback (not demands) and hope that they create a game that resonates with the vast majority of fans.
???
343’s entire mission is to create money for MS. If creative integrity was on anyone’s minds - MS wouldn’t have made an entire company to bring back Bungie’s dead franchise. They would have made something new. But they didn’t. Because they don’t care about freedom. And frankly, if 343’s idea of “creative freedom,” is Thruster packs and Aim Down Sights, I don’t care much either. They make what MS tells them to make and creativity does not factor into it. MS told them to make Halo because of people like us Ryo, regardless of what 343 wanted to do. As the progenitor of this relationship, I would like to ensure that the game MS and 343 are making is, you know, something I’d want to buy and play.
It’s our money that created 343. If they don’t want to put up with our -Yoink- they have two options. Make something I like so I can give you money, or use your creative freedom to make your own thing - something that doesn’t have the name “Halo” on it, and doesn’t target the pockets of an entire group of fans. I would support that. Of course, MS wouldn’t. And there - Ryo - is the real villain oppressing 343’s creative integrity. Not I. I harbor no malcontent towards the developers that are 343 industries. I only see the sickly twist of one of my favorite games into oblivion, all in an attempt to get me to buy it and enjoy it the way I bought and enjoyed the last 3. I also realize that this twisting won’t end - not while 343 is beholden to Microsoft and I am beholden to Halo.
Do you think 343I is going to go “well these millions of people want ___, but since they demanded it we aren’t going to do it because that’s impolite.”
No, they’re going to implement it anyways and swim in the resulting tub of money.
Demanding things isn’t as polite as asking for them, but at the end of the day how the community presents its requests isn’t what matters to them.
What matters to them is the requests themselves, how many people want ___ vs how many people don’t want ___, and how they can use this to their advantage.
> They will make what they want to make.
That’s a poor business model considering they aren’t making the game for themselves, they’re making it for the consumer.
If I were in charge of 343I, would I make my ultimate dream Halo? No, I’d make what I think is going to make money and keep my company afloat and my employees from starving, even if it disgusts me to so much as look at my creation.
Now if I were making a mod or indie game for me and a group of friends and maybe any strangers who have some interest, that’s a different story.
The role of an artist is not to pander to the whims of the public.
It is to express themselves creatively. I understand the business potion of what you are saying. However, this idea that they NEED to enact the commandments of a mythical community is problematic when you consider how it is devoid of consensus.
Some want sprint… others no. Some like drops, others want to play Halo 2…Who is 343i going to listen to? You? Me? When 343i says that they concluded that more people wanted sprint than not, people started calling them liars and bandied community letters and videos… The community it would appear did not want to listen to reason.
NO.
343i needs to make the game that they want to make…
> 2533274792065063;6:
> The role of an artist is not to pander to the whims of the public.
>
> It is to express themselves creatively. I understand the business potion of what you are saying. However, this idea that they NEED to enact the commandments of a mythical community is problematic when you consider how it is devoid of consensus.
>
> Some want sprint… others no. Some like drops, others want to play Halo 2…Who is 343i going to listen to? You? Me? When 343i says that they concluded that more people wanted sprint than not, people started calling them liars and bandied community letters and videos… The community it would appear did not want to listen to reason.
>
> NO.
>
> 343i needs to make the game that they want to make…
343i is not an artist, and you are not a visionary.
They are a subsidiary of Microsoft, and consist of paid professionals tasked with assembling the remaining Halo games.
> It’s our money that created 343. If they don’t want to put up with our -Yoink- they have two options. Make something I like so I can give you money, or use your creative freedom to make your own thing - something that doesn’t have the name “Halo” on it, and doesn’t target the pockets of an entire group of fans. I would support that. Of course, MS wouldn’t. And there - Ryo - is the real villain oppressing 343’s creative integrity. Not I. I harbor no malcontent towards the developers that are 343 industries. I only see the sickly twist of one of my favorite games into oblivion, all in an attempt to get me to buy it and enjoy it the way I bought and enjoyed the last 3. I also realize that this twisting won’t end - not while 343 is beholden to Microsoft and I am beholden to Halo.
Think you need to take a break from video games. Sounds like you take this all a little too seriously.
> Some want sprint… others no. Some like drops, others want to play Halo 2…Who is 343i going to listen to? You? Me? When 343i says that they concluded that more people wanted sprint than not, people started calling them liars and bandied community letters and videos… The community it would appear did not want to listen to reason.
343I is free to decide upon requests as they please.
Practically, they are going to solve that problem by listening to whoever they believe is the majority, and reap the consequences or rewards.
They do not need to please everyone to make money.
> The role of an artist is not to pander to the whims of the public
It is if he’s under contract. When you’re hired to paint the sistine chapel, drawing certain things probably wouldn’t fly…
A commercial artist has to balance creative freedom with concessions to what his audience desires.
> 2533274800197828;8:
> > It’s our money that created 343. If they don’t want to put up with our -Yoink- they have two options. Make something I like so I can give you money, or use your creative freedom to make your own thing - something that doesn’t have the name “Halo” on it, and doesn’t target the pockets of an entire group of fans. I would support that. Of course, MS wouldn’t. And there - Ryo - is the real villain oppressing 343’s creative integrity. Not I. I harbor no malcontent towards the developers that are 343 industries. I only see the sickly twist of one of my favorite games into oblivion, all in an attempt to get me to buy it and enjoy it the way I bought and enjoyed the last 3. I also realize that this twisting won’t end - not while 343 is beholden to Microsoft and I am beholden to Halo.
>
>
> Think you need to take a break from video games. Sounds like you take this all a little too seriously.
Oh please.
I’m simply a saddened and misunderstood soul with an eloquent tongue…
> 2533274900262820;1:
> DIsclaimer: There is a slight rant in here so proceed on your own account.
>
> SO this ties into the halo community. I just watched need for speed again and the beginning it shows the main guy who sets up a underground race. and being an owner of a mclaren P1 now ( though overpriced but it was the color i wanted) i can relate it to halo in a way/.
>
> In the halo community a lot of people have opinions but they also tend to cross there world of opinion to you should should do this and that with your game kinda as if they were the once who made the game themselves.
>
> Well in the movie the opening scene it shows a fan calling in to say he doesn’t think a redneck trust fund kid should be in the race, I’m assuming they are speaking about Dino Brewster( Dominic Cooper) the movies antagonist. And the Monarch shuts the guy up and asked him if he ever raced a race car in his life, then proceeds to state this is his race he created it and he alone decides who gets to participate in it.
>
> And here is where Fans tend to cross the line yes we are entitled to an opinion and even give feedback that’s great, good for business but we shouldn’t be telling game developers that a game should be this way and it has to be that way because in the end its there game not yours that they are creating until you as a fan actually create a video game the actual final copy of a game is solely decided by the developers and if it fails it fails that’s there problem not yours because its not your company that feels the burden.
>
> And please no die hard fans should be made fun of in here either because if you think about it i have respect for a full grown man who likes to spend tons of money on collectibles. For one he is investing in a future, 2 he obviously has enough money to support his life and his hobbies, and three he gives no F*** about what others truly think of him, to me thats a bad -Yoink- no matter how you spin it. usually its the broke guy who decides to hate on the gamer who can afford the finer things in life. also i was called a D bag for going and picking up Forza horizon 2 In a Lamborghini aventador because apperantly i shouldn be driving that car to an area where most peeople will never afford that car( i assume this guy thinks i giv a crap what car some peopI know a long rant that makes no sense but hey who cares its halo and if you complain about this rant no one put a gun to your head to read it you did that all on your own and have only yu to blame not the thread or me.
Not to sound rude, but I feel like this entire section is blaming poor people for the disconnect between the Halo community and how some get angry at the hardcore fans, while I see the point you are trying to put across, this is actually very rude to those who are not as fortunate as us.
> 2535460843083983;7:
> 343i is not an artist, and you are not a visionary.
>
> They are a subsidiary of Microsoft, and consist of paid professionals tasked with assembling the remaining Halo games.
Being paid to make a creative work (even along a specific idea) doesn’t necessarily invalidate the creativity involved.
I’m not a history expert, but a very quick check on my part implies that Michelangelo was contracted (and probably paid?) to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling. I’m not intending to compare an above-average game franchise to one of the most legendary works of art in all of human history, but I’m just saying – if that’s still art, despite being commissioned and involving a signed contract, then payment shouldn’t automatically make something more ordinary become not-art.
I’m sure there are, uh, more reasonable and more grounded examples, but I’m also not an art expert, so I just grabbed the first thing I could think of. :\
> 2533274843742113;12:
> > 2535460843083983;7:
> > 343i is not an artist, and you are not a visionary.
> >
> > They are a subsidiary of Microsoft, and consist of paid professionals tasked with assembling the remaining Halo games.
>
>
> Being paid to make a creative work (even along a specific idea) doesn’t necessarily invalidate the creativity involved.
>
> I’m not a history expert, but a very quick check on my part implies that Michelangelo was paid to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling. I’m not looking to compare an above-average game franchise to one of the most legendary works of art in all of human history, but I’m just saying – if that’s still art, despite being commissioned and involving a signed contract, then payment doesn’t automatically make any artistic work become not-art.
Not saying it isn’t art. I just find the analogy of 343 and a romantic artist to be pretty reaching…
343 has artists, but companies have to create something they know will be profitable, an artist does not.
> 2535460843083983;13:
> Not saying it isn’t art. I just find the analogy of 343 and a romantic artist to be pretty reaching.
>
> 343 has artists, but companies have to create something they know will be profitable, an artist does not.
I took you a bit too literally, I guess. You’re quite right: 343i (and any game developer, really) has to balance their own creativity with consumers’ feedback and a publisher’s wishes, so what we receive will never be entirely the product of their imaginations.
> 2533274843742113;14:
> > 2535460843083983;13:
> > Not saying it isn’t art. I just find the analogy of 343 and a romantic artist to be pretty reaching.
> >
> > 343 has artists, but companies have to create something they know will be profitable, an artist does not.
>
>
> I took you a bit too literally, I guess. You’re quite right: 343i (and any game developer, really) has to balance their own creativity with consumers’ feedback and a publisher’s wishes, so what we receive will never be entirely the product of their imaginations.
It’s fine. Actually, I think I got the gist of what you mean. I can’t ignore the reveal of all the changes they made from the beta feedback… It all seems to good to be true at times, and for the most part I am a very harsh critic, (not just of 343, but of myself, because I like to make music/3D character models quite often…)
You can still really tell there is a heavy focus on balancing all these new ideas, and it’s very foreign for me to see a (relatively new) developer do that. They mean well.
A lot of ideas being thrown around, and I look forward to seeing what makes the cut.
> 2535421619942348;2:
> I pay $60 for this game. That is what you keep on forgetting. They desperately want my money. I’m telling them how to get it.
>
> If it fails, it fails after I put $60 into it. I do in fact feel a $60 burden.
>
> That is all.
You paid 60 for a game, yes. But what continues to baffle me is that everyone thinks 60$ makes them a majority shareholder in a game’s company.
It. Is. 60. Dollars.
Let me reiterate that. Sixity. Dollars.
They spend more than that on their coffee for the office.
Your money means nothing. They don’t even GET most of it. They only get a portion, considering the 60$ isn’t what they charge the retailers.
Stop thinking that because you bought a SINGLE game, you somehow have the ability to tell the company what they can and can’t do. Or DEMANDING free downloadable content. They owe you NOTHING but a game, which they provided when you bought it.
That being said, you can definitely show your support, or give suggestions, they enjoy that here at 343. But when you sit here and DEMAND that they provide you with certain things, that they themselves never said they would, or told you they won’t do… you’re merely perpetuating the company never listening to us again.
> 2533274867434195;16:
> > 2535421619942348;2:
> > I pay $60 for this game. That is what you keep on forgetting. They desperately want my money. I’m telling them how to get it.
> >
> > If it fails, it fails after I put $60 into it. I do in fact feel a $60 burden.
> >
> > That is all.
>
>
> You paid 60 for a game, yes. But what continues to baffle me is that everyone thinks 60$ makes them a majority shareholder in a game’s company.
> It. Is. 60. Dollars.
>
> Let me reiterate that. Sixity. Dollars.
> They spend more than that on their coffee for the office.
> Your money means nothing. They don’t even GET most of it. They only get a portion, considering the 60$ isn’t what they charge the retailers.
> Stop thinking that because you bought a SINGLE game, you somehow have the ability to tell the company what they can and can’t do. Or DEMANDING free downloadable content. They owe you NOTHING but a game, which they provided when you bought it.
>
> That being said, you can definitely show your support, or give suggestions, they enjoy that here at 343. But when you sit here and DEMAND that they provide you with certain things, that they themselves never said they would, or told you they won’t do… you’re merely perpetuating the company never listening to us again.
Actually, 343i probably don’t get any money from actual game sales. Most likely they’d get a budget from Microsoft to cover wages and such for each Halo project. Obviously high sales would get devs salary bonuses and so on but thats it.
And people saying 343i aren’t artists…they are. Video games are like movies; artistic expression created to make money. Sometime’s concessions have to be made for business reasons, but a lot of the time its actually resources rather than meddling from higher up. Invasion wasn’t cut from Halo 2 and 3 because Microsoft said no. They cut it because they didn’t have the resources to do it to the extent they wanted.
Most publishers know that the best way to make money is to make good games. Good games come from letting the devs make the game they want to make.
> 2533274842918190;17:
> > 2533274867434195;16:
> > > 2535421619942348;2:
> > > I pay $60 for this game. That is what you keep on forgetting. They desperately want my money. I’m telling them how to get it.
> > >
> > > If it fails, it fails after I put $60 into it. I do in fact feel a $60 burden.
> > >
> > > That is all.
> >
> >
> > You paid 60 for a game, yes. But what continues to baffle me is that everyone thinks 60$ makes them a majority shareholder in a game’s company.
> > It. Is. 60. Dollars.
> >
> > Let me reiterate that. Sixity. Dollars.
> > They spend more than that on their coffee for the office.
> > Your money means nothing. They don’t even GET most of it. They only get a portion, considering the 60$ isn’t what they charge the retailers.
> > Stop thinking that because you bought a SINGLE game, you somehow have the ability to tell the company what they can and can’t do. Or DEMANDING free downloadable content. They owe you NOTHING but a game, which they provided when you bought it.
> >
> > That being said, you can definitely show your support, or give suggestions, they enjoy that here at 343. But when you sit here and DEMAND that they provide you with certain things, that they themselves never said they would, or told you they won’t do… you’re merely perpetuating the company never listening to us again.
>
>
> Actually, 343i probably don’t get any money from actual game sales. Most likely they’d get a budget from Microsoft to cover wages and such for each Halo project. Obviously high sales would get devs salary bonuses and so on but thats it.
>
> And people saying 343i aren’t artists…they are. Video games are like movies; artistic expression created to make money. Sometime’s concessions have to be made for business reasons, but a lot of the time its actually resources rather than meddling from higher up. Invasion wasn’t cut from Halo 2 and 3 because Microsoft said no. They cut it because they didn’t have the resources to do it to the extent they wanted.
>
> Most publishers know that the best way to make money is to make good games. Good games come from letting the devs make the game they want to make.
Very well said i believe in sitting back and letting the people paid to do what they do do what they do, I can relate this to cars again because when i go to car meets or even to the gas station im usually in a new corrola because it draws less attention but when i go in either the P1 the GTR or the Aventador i get attention and im not a bag about it ill let peple sit in the car iv even taken some teen kid for a spin in it because i hope it gives that kid the drive to succeed you know give gim inspiration to make more of his life to achieve the goal they want in life. BUt once in a while you get that hardccore car person who has seen every you tube video on each one of my cars and thinks he knows everything there is to know about my cars… Yet he doesnt own a single one not one but he is a bonified expert on the cars and knows things about it that would blow your mind from not actually owning one, i usually just allow the rant and move on but man some of them will pester you saying how dare you own that car because your not a true fan and that color isnt the best color you should have gotten it in this color and blah blah blah. and thats when i go ok i picked the color or this car because i can afford it and i liked it and thats it. but to them its why didnt you get the colo i liked or the car i liked so i can come to these car meets and see that one. thats kinda how most of these gamers sound you know.